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Next Radiator in loop with Thermochill 120.3

S

shunail

Member
Hi,
I want to run another radiator in the loop since 8800GTS SLI gets hot even with Thermochill 120.3. I know that Thermochill 120.3 is top notch radiator but not good enough to handle Intel E6600 and 8800GTS SLI.

I've ordered:

<+>Lian Li PC-V2100B PLUS II Black Aluminum Server Case
- Drill Top Blowholes: Drill 120 mm Top Blowhole
- Optical Drive Covers: Extra Aluminum Lian Li Bezel
- Aluminum 3.5: One Aluminum Transfer Bracket
<+> EK-Multioption RES 200 (Reservoir)
<+> Petra'sTech DDCT-01s (Delrin DDC Pump)
<+> Laing DDC w/ Petra'sTech DDCT-01s Top Combo (Pump)
<+> D-TEK FuZion (For CPU Block)
<+> Thermochill 120.3 Radiator

I've got

<=> 2 x EK 8800GTS Acetal Waterblocks
<=> Eheim 1250 (pump from old Reserator 2 setup that I had with this pump)

So... for this setup I was wondering to use another radiator to help Thermochill 120.3 since 8800GTS as we all know!! Living Volacanoes
 
Originally posted by: shunail
Hi,
I want to run another radiator in the loop since 8800GTS SLI gets hot even with Thermochill 120.3. I know that Thermochill 120.3 is top notch radiator but not good enough to handle Intel E6600 and 8800GTS SLI.

I've ordered:

<+>Lian Li PC-V2100B PLUS II Black Aluminum Server Case
- Drill Top Blowholes: Drill 120 mm Top Blowhole
- Optical Drive Covers: Extra Aluminum Lian Li Bezel
- Aluminum 3.5: One Aluminum Transfer Bracket
<+> EK-Multioption RES 200 (Reservoir)
<+> Petra'sTech DDCT-01s (Delrin DDC Pump)
<+> Laing DDC w/ Petra'sTech DDCT-01s Top Combo (Pump)
<+> D-TEK FuZion (For CPU Block)
<+> Thermochill 120.3 Radiator

I've got

<=> 2 x EK 8800GTS Acetal Waterblocks
<=> Eheim 1250 (pump from old Reserator 2 setup that I had with this pump)

So... for this setup I was wondering to use another radiator to help Thermochill 120.3 since 8800GTS as we all know!! Living Volacanoes
Click to expand...

your kidding me right?

A thermochill PA120.3 will handle SLI cards on TEC.

Theres noway your gts or even a GTX could produce more heat then 7800GTX on TEC's. Unless you threw them on tec's.

Also i hope your aware each PA series rad costs 100+. You dont need another large loop. I see you chagned out your system tho. Okey this is going to take some time because im going to teach you how to build a performance loop. Not a traditional Loop.


From what your ordered and from what you have, you need to follow this EXACTLY or it wont work. The temps you get on this setup will not GET any better no matter how much extra waterparts you throw at it. It will only get better if you decide to TEC your blocks, and if thats the case, you have the completely wrong blocks for it.


This is what i called on my guide a dual radiator dual pump layout. (not ment for noobs who dont know what there doing!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. You need to get rid of the ehiem, and buy another DDC-2 with petras top. You must match and PAIR your pumps if you want them in the same loop.

2. You then need to get another radiator. Try to get the two largest possible that will fit in your case. If your case can handle 2 120.3 then go for it! It gives you that much more upgradeability. Might be a little overkill, but the price difference between a PA120.2 and 120.3 is marginal. So go for the larger one if it fits.

3. Now the objective is to get water moving AS FAST AS POSSIBLE through your CPU and GPU. But you want to chill the water a little B4 it hits your GPU because the CPU will dish out the most heat into your water. This is accomplished by dual pumps.

Follow this LAYOUT and loop Order EXACTLY. This is my aprox 7months tearing and rebuilding work your getting for free. I promise you, you wont get any better temps doing it another style or way. Its just not possible, and if your experienced, you'll see my dynamics in design. 😀


Pump1 -> CPU RADIATOR -> CPU BLOCK -> PUMP2 -> GPU RADIATOR ->GPU BLOCK -> RES


Pump 1 pushes the water though the rad and in sense cools the liquid to room temp. Then the water is shot into the CPU. Water temp will increase the longer it stays in the CPU. Pump 2 sucks water from cpu area, so the water is moving VERY VERY fast, and therefore not a lot of heat is carried per volume, yet same amount of heat is removed at a more efficient rate. Then the warm water is into another radiator, where it cools again to room temp. This lets the "fresh" water hit your GPU's. This is how the lowest possible temps is gained.

The only problem with this is the last GPU temp will be slightly higher at times 1-2C tops. This is because the EK blocks we have causes flow restrictions. Adding a THIRD pump down there only complicates things ( to be exact, you now got a noticeble increase in temp from the pumps! :\ ) . Ive tried.... The water in the Cpu is both pushed and sucked, so you now have the ultimate flow in your cpu block.

Then your GPU's now have a radiator in front to expell the heat collected by the CPU. The water is now in sense cool again. The second radiator does not have to be large, i said get 120.3 thermocihlls because the price difference is seriously SMALL for a 120.2 and 120.3 If a second thermochill is too expensive, a swiftech counterpart will do fine. Remember heat picked up from the cpu in the water cooling loop is going to be small due to the fast flow, so a small radiator is also acceptable.

This kind of setup can get very messy in tubing. As you saw with mine. So make sure you plan your layout. You'll find sometimes you'll run into a extremely hard restriction due to location.
 
Ok..I see no reason to spend more on a another rad...you need to report your temps ..and do not forget your ambients, fans etc

your pump is part of the issue in your loop...the problem is not the radiator
 
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^NICE LOOP!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that your own trial & error Agio? Excellent thinking....
Click to expand...

7 months of tweeking and retubing. I swear if bought tygon, id be broke as hell.

<3 masterkleer 😀


and yeah, my setup is the new in now. Tons of flow to the CPU for fast heat removal, and a small rad in the rear to recharge the water b4 it hits the CPU.

The rear rad in my setup has its own side fan blowing cold air inside to it, and also to the mobo. Problem is, its uber expensive to setup, requires dual rads and pumps. But it also saves you from a single pump failure.

Also if you remember my last post, when a pump fails, YOU'LL know. It almost killed my awesome temps. Neal remembers. These EK blocks were not ment for low flow systems. Straight up.


BTW im running dual EK FC blocks. SAme with op, thats why i recomended this setup. His gfx cards will take a hugh hit from a c2d oc'd that high.
 
aigomorla, thanks SO MUCH for such briefing!! You are really good at it.

Now what I was thinking:

Pump
||
reservoir
||
CPU BLOCK
||
Small Radiator
\
Pump
\\=
| |
// \
|| ||
GPU 1 Block == GPU 2 Block
|| ||
\\ //
||
Thermochill 120.3
||
||
AquaBay M6 Reservoir == ThermoTemp
||
Back to Pump


* GPU 1 and 2 Blocks would have Polypropylene "Y" IN (from small radiator) and "Y" Out to Thermochill 120.3
What do you say?
and also, still what about small radiator?
 
Originally posted by: aigomorla
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^NICE LOOP!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that your own trial & error Agio? Excellent thinking....
Click to expand...
7 months of tweeking and retubing. I swear if bought tygon, id be broke as hell.
<3 masterkleer 😀
Click to expand...

Ha! I am broke. This is cheaper than my last hobby though, beer ain't cheap and at my flowrate,,, well,,, let's just say that if Anheuser-Busch had a pension plan for consumers I could have retired a wealthy man.....
I just moved my Alphacool/Ehiem submersible pump to the backside of my blocks as you suggest. I was surprised to find a very small drop in tenps, 1c load, 1c or less idle. I expected more as I've read that the sumps are dumping heat from the motor into the water also.
 
Originally posted by: shunail
aigomorla, thanks SO MUCH for such briefing!! You are really good at it.

Now what I was thinking:

Pump
||
reservoir
||
CPU BLOCK
||
Small Radiator

Pump
\\=
| |
//
|| ||
GPU 1 Block == GPU 2 Block
|| ||
\\ //
||
Thermochill 120.3
||
||
AquaBay M6 Reservoir == ThermoTemp
||
Back to Pump


* GPU 1 and 2 Blocks would have Polypropylene "Y" IN (from small radiator) and "Y" Out to Thermochill 120.3
What do you say?
and also, still what about small radiator?
Click to expand...


That wont WORK. Each time you split with a Y, your reducing your overall flow in half. The only way a Y would work is if you were running a tripple or quad pump design.

As i have mentioned, adding that many pumps will lead to the pumps as being another heat source. This isnt something you want. If your dont believe me, leak test two pumps in series with no fan on the rad. The rad will get warm, and it will only take about 15 min to do so. Add a third, and it gets warm in about 5 min. I havent had a 4th pump to add so, i wouldnt know how much faster 4 pumps would take.

But 15 -> 5 min is a hugh increase.


You have to follow my original layout EXACTLY down to the loop order and blocks. There is no way to tweek it. Each part is stragitically placed in its location for a reason. You change 1 thing on the loop, your GPU or CPU will take a hugh hit in the end.

You really need to get rid of the aqua bay. My loop was not intended for the addition of toys. i cant stress how many times i have said Koolance, XSPC, THERMALCRAP = toys :X
 
Originally posted by: shunail
No that was just an idea. Ofcourse you know more!!
That aquabay M6 was to check temperature and flow.
Click to expand...

get rid of it. Its native 1/4id which restricts your entire loop to 1/4.

To be straight up, its going to break the impellers on your DDC-2 because the min tube diameter they require is 3/8ths.

and your DDC-2 is a 100 dollar pump vs a 30 dolar aqua bay which will hurt your performance.


WAIT, tell me you got the DDC-2 instead of the DDC

If you didnt, MAKE SURE YOU CANCEL AND ASK THEM TO SUB. the DDC2 >>>>>>> DDC1
 
whoa, you are alot concerned about my system and I'm VERY THANKFUL for your advices.
Well, my system would definately be 3/8 and I won't allow 1/4 id in it. I wasn't going to use Thermaltake pump, NO WAY! Both pumps would be DDC-2 18W. That AquaBay temperature indicator is also 3/8 and I won't use its reservoir. It has probe with temperature sensor that is 3/8 ID as well.
So no T or Y connectors in between. Just simple line flow. But should I drop other DDC-2 pump? I've heard it doesn't get hot but ofcourse every machine get warms and that heat would desperse to the water. I would place Antec SpotCool fan facing pump to cool it down if anything...
 
Originally posted by: shunail
whoa, you are alot concerned about my system and I'm VERY THANKFUL for your advices.
Well, my system would definately be 3/8 and I won't allow 1/4 id in it. I wasn't going to use Thermaltake pump, NO WAY! Both pumps would be DDC-2 18W. That AquaBay temperature indicator is also 3/8 and I won't use its reservoir. It has probe with temperature sensor that is 3/8 ID as well.
So no T or Y connectors in between. Just simple line flow. But should I drop other DDC-2 pump? I've heard it doesn't get hot but ofcourse every machine get warms and that heat would desperse to the water. I would place Antec SpotCool fan facing pump to cool it down if anything...
Click to expand...

noooooooooooooooooo that temp idicator is 1/4th native!!!


and you need to be running 1/2 diameter. Theres a hugh difference from 3/8 to 1/2. To be exact i would say its almost 5-6C.

Dont worry about the temp monitor. Your coretemp is all you really need. You shouldnt be concerned about water temp unless your running tests. Stop trying to bling a performance system.

Your trying to add deep dish spinning wheels on a ferrari. thats what im trying to get at.

Leave my loop the EXACT way i told you in the EXACT order. Adding toys to this type of setup will seriously kill your performance.

IF you want to add toys, go with the traditional setup, however your going to get really bad temps thanks to the 2 Full covered blocks.
 
Originally posted by: shunail
BUT is 3/8 setup OK??
Click to expand...

from what i read on your post, Your a temp whore like me.

So no, you wont be happy until you maxed your system to the best possible cooling you can get.

So do it right the first time and not have to worry about retubing later on.

Just do 1/2. That way, the temps you get will the best possible temps you can get without jumping to sub ambient.
 
HAHAHA Its like you are bitching at him....... Take his advice, he knows what he is talking about. But i prefer my MCP655 moves a ton of water, my res is like a mixer.
 
tylerdustin2008, why would I mind someone who's trying to help me??? I'm taking each and every piece of advice and I'm thankful to him for his descriptive support.
 
Another option for multiple pumps/Rads is to put just a pump and a Rad on a bypass loop. You still get all the cooling from the Rad, but no restriction from the rest of the loop. And you can use a smaller pump since it only has to pump through a single Rad. You can also shut down the pump and fans on the bypass loop if it's extra cooling is not required at any particular time.
 
Originally posted by: Billb2
Another option for multiple pumps/Rads is to put just a pump and a Rad on a bypass loop. You still get all the cooling from the Rad, but no restriction from the rest of the loop. And you can use a smaller pump since it only has to pump through a single Rad. You can also shut down the pump and fans on the bypass loop if it's extra cooling is not required at any particular time.
Click to expand...

I heard that can cause pressure issues and also damage your second pump. However im not 100% sure on this.

Can you verify it wont damage your pump? Your never suposed to inline 2 different pumps on the same loop. Even though a bypass reservoir from my knowledge.

But i can be wrong. So can you verify this please?



And to those who are reading this, the DDC-2 pump, which shunail linked, is currently the king in DC pumps. There is no pump stronger on the market you can buy. Get the petrastech DDC-T01 top, to compliment it, and the thing will push water much greater then even the D5, aka 655.


So YES! its a great pump! it has tremendous amounts of flow, and with the second one, you shouldnt have any issues running FC blocks on SLI. Which is what your whole loop plan intended on. Correct? 😀


And yeah, i kinda do sound like im drilling him. 😛 But when he see's his temps rock bottom past his old zalman.... all he can say is :Q

However he will probably also say that after seeing his parts bill.


I guess im a bit harder on him then i was on you. You and him are different cases. You had a defined budget, he's on a quest to get ultimate cooling w/o insulating your board for sub ambient.


IF something went wrong on your loop, you'd probably go ugh, bad parts. From the sound of him, if something went wrong on this setup, he would be forever turned away from water.

So , to save him from that last choice, what better way to show the apex of h2o cooling, so when he compares to the apex of air cooling, he will see how far air needs to go to catch up. (which is impossible)


Lastly i realized why there are so many people that think air will cool as effieciently as water.

It has to due with these dayam C2D chips. On a AMD going from 1.3 -> 1.4 usually would mean my temps wouldnt rise more then 2-3C. Maybe a tad bit more under load. However, since these C2D chips came out lemme clearify something!

Running a chip STOCK voltage VS. 1.4V = a whole new ballgame. I find it really funny guys with tuniqs on 1.35V are comparing themself with water running on 1.5V.

This is what cracks me up all the time. and guess what they say?? TUNIQ WINNER! laugh.....
 
Why not, instead of running 1 big loop like that, to run 2 seperated loops?

he seems to have all he needs to do that..... 1 x pump and radiator per loop.

Or maybe that isnt good because of failure rate on the pumps? so 1 big loop with 2 strong pumps is good in case 1 pump fails the other can take over?
 
Originally posted by: hecktic
Why not, instead of running 1 big loop like that, to run 2 seperated loops?

he seems to have all he needs to do that..... 1 x pump and radiator per loop.

Or maybe that isnt good because of failure rate on the pumps? so 1 big loop with 2 strong pumps is good in case 1 pump fails the other can take over?
Click to expand...

kinda. If 1 dies, you're loop takes a hugh hit in performance. Yet it can still live on 1 pump. You just need to down your settings while the other pump arrives.

Dual loops, are great that it allows less flow restrictions, but a single loop, dual pump layout is safer for someone like him. This way, if one does die, he'll come onboard and say something so i can catch it.

But chances are, you'd have to be really unlucky to have a pump die.
 
Good answer, clear and understandable. Im sending you a pm about a 5 loop system Im working on. Just some tad final touch questions I need verified by someone experienced like yourself.
 
A friend of mine is building my computer. We have a different approach in that we want to phase cool the CPU.
The rest will be water cooled with 2 loops.
1 loop, consisting of 2 Laing DDC 18W with Watercool top, 1 2x120mm Black Ice Xtreme rad and 2 EK 8800GTX waterblocks, running 1/2" tubing.
2nd loop will have a Laing DDC Ultra with Alphacool top, will run 1/4" tubing and cool the SB, NB and Mosfets of EVGA 680i with a single 1x120mm rad.
Will the setup hold?
http://www.crazypc.ro/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19869&d=1174951355
http://www.crazypc.ro/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20098&d=1175639054
http://www.crazypc.ro/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20093&d=1175638997
Yes, that's the EVGA 680i Black Pearl.

If shunail sais a Thermochill 120.3 can't hold 2 GTSs', what should I be looking at?
I don't want the ultimate performance, I just want my videocards, NB SB and Mosfets to run quieter and cooler than on air.
What temps am I looking at for these components?
 
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