• Hey there Guest! This holiday season you have a chance to win some cool AnandTech swag! Check out “The Holiday Hotlist” giveaway, which you can find here.

New Zen microarchitecture details

maddie

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2010
2,201
57
136
can you guys quit ruining this thread? we had a nice couple days where some semi-informed speculation went on, but you all had to go and step in it. you've had this discussion over and over in thread after thread, none of you are changing any of the others minds, and i'm tired of reading it.
Good luck. Love the technical stuff, hate the sniping.

It gets tedious
 
Last edited:

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
97,771
36
126
people seeing others as having agendas is a problem, and perhaps it is time to have that discussion, but this thread is not for that discussion.
 

Doom2pro

Senior member
Apr 2, 2016
587
0
106
Good luck with this. It's a crusade to some. Might some sort of special forum thread with posting by approved privilege only by the OP solve the constant derailment of some threads. Could this be a solution. I can see the moderators here being heavily worked.

Per one poster quoted by you:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38153183&postcount=68
Not at all. I believe that these forums are slowly being infested by people seemingly with agendas to try to promote AMD products and alleged "superiority." The claims are becoming increasingly fantastical and out-of-touch with reality.
Mybad thought this thread was about Zen, seeing all the talk about Zen I figured it would be ok to talk about Zen.
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,250
4
126

I sometimes wonder about the accuracy of the sources, but the premise makes sense.

It would be very embarrassing for AMD to release Project Quantum with an Intel chip inside. Especially since Zen, apparently is progressing satisfactorily.

Big Vega should be about ready early next year along with Zen.

I'm also going out on a Limb and state my hunch. Dr. Su, CEO of AMD, probably told the tinkerers to shelf Quantum until AMD could produce both a legitimate cpu and gpu to compete. (I would expect nothing less from someone with a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. in E.E. from M.I.T. !)

I really like what she has done to AMD in making the divisions focus on the quality of their products.
 
Last edited:
Aug 11, 2008
10,374
9
126
I sometimes wonder about the accuracy of the sources, but the premise makes sense.

It would be very embarrassing for AMD to release Project Quantum with an Intel chip inside. Especially since Zen, apparently is progressing satisfactorily.

Big Vega should be about ready early next year along with Zen.

I'm also going out on a Limb and state my hunch. Dr. Su, CEO of AMD, probably told the tinkerers to shelf Quantum until AMD could produce both a legitimate cpu and gpu to compete. (I would expect nothing less from someone with a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. in E.E. from M.I.T. !)

I really like what she has done to AMD in making the divisions focus on the quality of their products.
Yea, it probably will happen, but all I see in that article, derived from the infamous WCCF Tech is speculation.
 

Shehriazad

Senior member
Nov 3, 2014
555
0
46
All this talk about Zen....but what about its' platform?

Like...wasn't it supposed to be available quite a bit before Zen itself? I'm kinda waiting <_>
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,702
18
106
I would be surprised if AMD officially even mentions Zen at Computex. I would expect AM4 platform and AM4 Bristol Ridges to be introduced there, but nothing Zen related.
 

Doom2pro

Senior member
Apr 2, 2016
587
0
106
I would be surprised if AMD officially even mentions Zen at Computex. I would expect AM4 platform and AM4 Bristol Ridges to be introduced there, but nothing Zen related.
A Polaris-like Demo would be nice... But don't hold your breath: Capsaicin.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,642
32
126
They traditionaly disclose their uarchs at Hot Chips, so we should expect about nothing till end of august.
Oh no, I meant AM4 boards will come at Computex. Summit Ridge should be later.
 
Apr 27, 2000
10,181
102
126
All this talk about Zen....but what about its' platform?

Like...wasn't it supposed to be available quite a bit before Zen itself? I'm kinda waiting <_>
Shipping manifests made it look like AMD could have launched AM4 + Bristol Ridge by now. They've chosen to wait until Computex instead.
 

Dresdenboy

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2003
1,730
0
136
citavia.blog.de
Zen at Computex (even behind closed doors) would be nice.
Zolkorn translated said:
Meanwhile, sources also told us that AMD will begin leading motherboard family AM4 to show or reveal to be seen in the middle of this year or at the Computex Taipei 2016 is coming up. during the month of June is coming up. And may be introduced Zen to show themselves to be seen as well. But it will not be released or sold in any way.
http://www.zolkorn.com/news/amd-am4-motherboard-starting-for-production/
https://translate.google.com/transl.../amd-am4-motherboard-starting-for-production/
Binglish is even worse.
 

Boze

Senior member
Dec 20, 2004
626
0
81
people seeing others as having agendas is a problem, and perhaps it is time to have that discussion, but this thread is not for that discussion.
The only agenda most of us have is performance.

The only way to fix that "agenda" is to wait for release and see how Zen stacks up. We can speculate all day using the technical data, but its ultimately meaningless until we have silicon in hand and we've got some benchmarks running.

Maybe everyone here needs to be reminded of that.
 

nenforcer

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2008
1,762
0
71
They are shipping the last of these Vishera / Kaveri / Godaveri / Carrizo chips with Wraith coolers hoping to sell the last stock. Back to school season (Q3) is the only real big target date they have to hit.
 
Aug 25, 2001
42,057
102
126
They are shipping the last of these Vishera / Kaveri / Godaveri / Carrizo chips with Wraith coolers hoping to sell the last stock. Back to school season (Q3) is the only real big target date they have to hit.
Zen for BTS 2016? Or Bristol Ridge and AM4 platform motherboards?
 

Doom2pro

Senior member
Apr 2, 2016
587
0
106
They are shipping the last of these Vishera / Kaveri / Godaveri / Carrizo chips with Wraith coolers hoping to sell the last stock. Back to school season (Q3) is the only real big target date they have to hit.
You are mistaking Bristol Ridge Q3 for Zen Q4...
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,702
18
106
Based on the rumors and the things I know as a facts it seems that AMD is putting most of the effort in Zen server platforms / infrastructures and the desktop platform (AM4) will be the runt.

The rumor says that AMD will be releasing three different server platforms and a single desktop platform. All of them are supposed to use different packages for the CPU. If that's really the case, then the infrastructures alone require a huge amount of work D: All of the different infrastructures will be implementing the same exact silicon (die), only the quantity and the fuse configuration varies, allegedly :sneaky:

Based on the recent testing I've done, I think we have reached a point where in certain workloads even the 8C/16T Zen will need to be able to better the operating frequency of Intel 4C/8T SKL / KBL parts in order to match their performance.

I have no idea what kind (if any) IPC improvements Kaby Lake will bring, however the situation doesn't look too great for Zen in the light of the projected 40% IPC improvement over Excavator :'(

X265 1.9+141 (GCC 5.3 x86-64 / YASM 1.30)

Settings: Preset = Medium, RC = CRF 16.0, ME = 3 (Star)
Input: YUV 420P8 1920x1080, 30fps
ST

Steamroller (CMT/P)

2765942


Steamroller (No-CMT/P)

2765943


Excavator (AVX2)

kHwGdJB.png


Excavator (No-AVX2)

9iAORlE.png


Haswell

d28f824a_HW_X265.png


Skylake
Thanks to Acizco for testing

1fd3b60c59.png


So:

Excavator (AVX2) = 1.25fps
Steamroller = 1.26fps (+0.8%)
Excavator (No-AVX2) = 1.30fps (+4%)
Haswell = 2.36fps (+88.8%)
Skylake = 2.55fps (+104.0%)

Adding 40% to the performance of Excavator is still like shooting a speeding locomotive with a BB-gun (even Skylake would still have ~46% higher IPC, and Kaby Lake is not even out yet...)
 
Last edited:
Mar 10, 2006
11,642
32
126
Adding 40% to the performance of Excavator is still like shooting a speeding locomotive with a BB-gun (even Skylake would still have ~46% higher IPC, and Kaby Lake is not even out yet...)
Kaby Lake will be a very, very tiny improvement IPC wise from Skylake. It is the same Skylake core but with features that were fused off (put in for experimental/R&D purpose) validated and turned on.

My bet is sub-5% IPC improvement. I do think that 14nm yield improvements/enhancements will allow for better frequency at a given power level. The KBL 65W i7 leaks point to 3.6GHz base/4.2GHz turbo, up from 3.4GHz/4.0GHz for the i7-6700.
 
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
0
106
Based on the rumors and the things I know as a facts it seems that AMD is putting most of the effort in Zen server platforms / infrastructures and the desktop platform (AM4) will be the runt.

The rumor says that AMD will be releasing three different server platforms and a single desktop platform. All of them are supposed to use different packages for the CPU. If that's really the case, then the infrastructures alone require a huge amount of work D: All of the different infrastructures will be implementing the same exact silicon (die), only the quantity and the fuse configuration varies, allegedly :sneaky:

Based on the recent testing I've done, I think we have reached a point where in certain workloads even the 8C/16T Zen will need to be able to better the operating frequency of Intel 4C/8T SKL / KBL parts in order to match their performance.

I have no idea what kind (if any) IPC improvements Kaby Lake will bring, however the situation doesn't look too great for Zen in the light of the projected 40% IPC improvement over Excavator :'(

X265 1.9+141 (GCC 5.3 x86-64 / YASM 1.30)

Settings: Preset = Medium, RC = CRF 16.0, ME = 3 (Star)
Input: YUV 420P8 1920x1080, 30fps
ST

Excavator (AVX2) = 1.25fps
Steamroller = 1.26fps (+0.8%)
Excavator (No-AVX2) = 1.30fps (+4%)
Haswell = 2.36fps (+88.8%)
Skylake = 2.55fps (+104.0%)

Adding 40% to the performance of Excavator is still like shooting a speeding locomotive with a BB-gun (even Skylake would still have ~46% higher IPC, and Kaby Lake is not even out yet...)
Yep, no need to keep waiting for "magic". Its going to be the same case as always.
 
Jun 5, 2002
151
1
101
Excavator (AVX2) = 1.25fps
Steamroller = 1.26fps (+0.8%)
Excavator (No-AVX2) = 1.30fps (+4%)
Haswell = 2.36fps (+88.8%)
Skylake = 2.55fps (+104.0%)

Adding 40% to the performance of Excavator is still like shooting a speeding locomotive with a BB-gun (even Skylake would still have ~46% higher IPC, and Kaby Lake is not even out yet...)
You compare 4-core Intel to 2-module AMD cpu's. 4-core Zen will have about 100 percent more fpu-simd resources and L2-bandwith versus two module versions.

Every module has 2-thread SIMD fpu, every Zen core will have about same resources for fpu(2-threads, L2). Only L1-bandwith will be lower but as write throughput is L2-cache limited module cores can't get full benewith from it. So 4-core Zen should be about twice as fast as 2-module const core at heavy SIMD workloads. So very close to Haswell.....
 
Last edited:
Mar 10, 2006
11,642
32
126
You compare 4-core Intel to 2-module AMD cpu's. 4-core Zen will have about 100 percent more fpu-simd resources and L2-bandwith versus two module versions.

Every module has 2-thread SIMD fpu, every Zen core will have about same resources for fpu(2-threads, L2). Only L1-bandwith will be lower but as write throughput is L2-cache limited module cores can't get full benewith from it. So 4-core Zen should be about twice as fast as 2-module const core at heavy SIMD workloads. So very close to Haswell.....
AFAICT, TheStilt posted single-threaded results.
 

Similar threads


ASK THE COMMUNITY