New video from BART shooting

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: datalink7
It appears to me to be an accidental discharge. Why was he pulling out his pistol I don't know. I say Manslaughter with maximum penalty. But that is only a review of the video. I don't have all the facts.

You're behind! Everyone else in the thread has all the facts and can make a rational decision based on all the evidence, pyschological investigations, and witness testimony except for you.

 

[LS21]

Originally posted by: tranceport
The video is strong. But additional evidence is required. If I were a juror I would not convict a murder 2 charge or a manslaughter charge based on this video alone. I would request more evidence not dismiss.

To put to rest some of the other arguments... I would be easily swayed with some additional incriminating evidence. Such as another officer saying he could see the hatred in the shooters eye maybe. Even the officer with his back to us saying something incriminating against the shooter would suffice.

So I am asking you what evidence you would need to see for a guilty sentence. slash/What is the minimum you would need to absolve the cop. You CAN fabricate as much as you want, for purpose of example

And if your answer is this...

Originally posted by: smack Down
LOL, you won't send some one to jail based on their actions but you would if a police officer claims to see "anger" in their eyes.

then I will LOL to my death

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: preslove
Heat of Passion doesn't count because the guy was lying face down, with his hands held behind his back by several police officers. Negligence is completely implausible because the cop pulled the gun from his holster, aimed and fired. Tasers weigh much lighter than pistols, are not kept in the gun holster, and look much different when aimed. You really have to be a gullible fool, or just an idiot who always sides with authority figures (see spidey) to believe that he was negligent, rather than intentioned.

You have obviously never held a fire arm or a taser given your statements, that means you cannot have a reasonable opinion and can be shoved away with the rest of the rabble, rabble, rabble posts.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: tranceport

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: tranceport

Originally posted by: LS21

Originally posted by: tranceport
How about some other cell phone videos? Transit station security cameras? Officer statements? Witness statements?

You have to realize that you cannot understand what is going on from a single short video?

I'm not trying to say there should be nothing done here... I'm only saying that before we stick a needle in this officers arm, lets be sure of what was intended and what happened. We only have a video and a final result.

We cannot go from incident to punishment. That is one thing that is for sure, not the right thing.

uh. yeah.
i grant you full creativity to fabricate every plausible aspect of the situation that would absolve the officer. go ahead and tell me what would prove him not guilty?

hmm.. lets see... 5 high-def cameras with boom mics for sound. oscar grant conjurs 2 knives onto his hand out of thin air, makes a verbal threat, gains superhuman strength, and someone had swapped cop's taser and gun before he suited up for the day?

he was on the fucking ground, with a cop on top of him and other cops nearby, and received a fucking bullet in the back.

but it was probably a mistake. so its okay.

I'm not trying to fabricate anything. You are. You fabricating the idea that there was nothing else going on except what you can see in this particular video. You are also assuming the officers intent and mindset with out ever talking to him or reading any reports.

The video is strong. But additional evidence is required. If I were a juror I would not convict a murder 2 charge or a manslaughter charge based on this video alone. I would request more evidence not dismiss.

To put to rest some of the other arguments... I would be easily swayed with some additional incriminating evidence. Such as another officer saying he could see the hatred in the shooters eye maybe. Even the officer with his back to us saying something incriminating against the shooter would suffice.

LOL, you won't send some one to jail based on their actions but you would if a police officer claims to see "anger" in their eyes. Did police at least give you knee-pads?

Umm that would clarify intent. Did he intend to kill him, maybe so if he was angry. Did he accidentally kill him, maybe so if he was looking at his pistol and fumbling with it.

Ummm... you do know that people lie, right? Especially when telling the truth will lead directly to jail time? Right?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: datalink7
It appears to me to be an accidental discharge. Why was he pulling out his pistol I don't know. I say Manslaughter with maximum penalty. But that is only a review of the video. I don't have all the facts.

You're behind! Everyone else in the thread has all the facts and can make a rational decision based on all the evidence, pyschological investigations, and witness testimony except for you.

Funny how all those other murders managed to end up in jail despite the lack of video from 4 different angles.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: preslove
Heat of Passion doesn't count because the guy was lying face down, with his hands held behind his back by several police officers. Negligence is completely implausible because the cop pulled the gun from his holster, aimed and fired. Tasers weigh much lighter than pistols, are not kept in the gun holster, and look much different when aimed. You really have to be a gullible fool, or just an idiot who always sides with authority figures (see spidey) to believe that he was negligent, rather than intentioned.

You have obviously never held a fire arm or a taser given your statements, that means you cannot have a reasonable opinion and can be shoved away with the rest of the rabble, rabble, rabble posts.

I own many guns and I agree with him.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: preslove


Ummm... you do know that people lie, right? Especially when telling the truth will lead directly to jail time? Right?

Not the police, they are gods living among us.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: datalink7
It appears to me to be an accidental discharge. Why was he pulling out his pistol I don't know. I say Manslaughter with maximum penalty. But that is only a review of the video. I don't have all the facts.

You're behind! Everyone else in the thread has all the facts and can make a rational decision based on all the evidence, pyschological investigations, and witness testimony except for you.

Funny how all those other murders managed to end up in jail despite the lack of video from 4 different angles.

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: datalink7
It appears to me to be an accidental discharge. Why was he pulling out his pistol I don't know. I say Manslaughter with maximum penalty. But that is only a review of the video. I don't have all the facts.

You're behind! Everyone else in the thread has all the facts and can make a rational decision based on all the evidence, pyschological investigations, and witness testimony except for you.

Funny how all those other murders managed to end up in jail despite the lack of video from 4 different angles.

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

What court case? The cop isn't even charged with a crime. He wasn't even fired.

 

[LS21]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

i want to look at my pistol, fumble around with it, and accidentally kill you

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: preslove
Heat of Passion doesn't count because the guy was lying face down, with his hands held behind his back by several police officers. Negligence is completely implausible because the cop pulled the gun from his holster, aimed and fired. Tasers weigh much lighter than pistols, are not kept in the gun holster, and look much different when aimed. You really have to be a gullible fool, or just an idiot who always sides with authority figures (see spidey) to believe that he was negligent, rather than intentioned.

You have obviously never held a fire arm or a taser given your statements, that means you cannot have a reasonable opinion and can be shoved away with the rest of the rabble, rabble, rabble posts.

Everyone has filed your posts away in the "spidey07 is a wingnut" drawer.

 

[tranceport]

My officer report comment is being taken a little too literally. I'd like to add/change it.

If an officer report was to include information that led me to believe the shooter intended to cause harm to Grant. Comments before the incident occurred maybe. "Lets kill one of these guys" "Lets teach these guys a lesson". Something like that. Maybe the other officers would say that Grant was about to pull the pin on his grenade (lol). No clue. I'm just interested in some witness reports.

If they say the officer laughed like a maniac after sucking the life out of Grant with his firearm that would be fine. Just was more evidence is all.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: datalink7
It appears to me to be an accidental discharge. Why was he pulling out his pistol I don't know. I say Manslaughter with maximum penalty. But that is only a review of the video. I don't have all the facts.

You're behind! Everyone else in the thread has all the facts and can make a rational decision based on all the evidence, pyschological investigations, and witness testimony except for you.

Funny how all those other murders managed to end up in jail despite the lack of video from 4 different angles.

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

What court case? The cop isn't even charged with a crime. He wasn't even fired.

The investigation isn't done yet, either.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: datalink7
It appears to me to be an accidental discharge. Why was he pulling out his pistol I don't know. I say Manslaughter with maximum penalty. But that is only a review of the video. I don't have all the facts.

You're behind! Everyone else in the thread has all the facts and can make a rational decision based on all the evidence, pyschological investigations, and witness testimony except for you.

Funny how all those other murders managed to end up in jail despite the lack of video from 4 different angles.

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

What court case? The cop isn't even charged with a crime. He wasn't even fired.

The investigation isn't done yet, either.

Well don't forget to bump this thread in 10 years when they decided to finish "investigating"

 

[tranceport]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: preslove


Ummm... you do know that people lie, right? Especially when telling the truth will lead directly to jail time? Right?

Not the police, they are gods living among us.

Quoted for gospel.

I realize people lie. But you still want to hear what is said.

If I were a juror I would hear what had to be said and make a decision based on it. Why would you want to keep that from happening?

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: smack Down
What court case? The cop isn't even charged with a crime. He wasn't even fired.

Are you fucking dense? Do you honestly think there isn't going to be any ramifications for his actions? Believe it or not, you usually gather evidence to go to the grand jury, etc.

Do you want to take him in the woods and shoot him in the head? Last time I checked, a suspect is innocent until proven guilty. And until there is a court case and ruling, he's just as innocent as you and I.

 

[tranceport]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: datalink7
It appears to me to be an accidental discharge. Why was he pulling out his pistol I don't know. I say Manslaughter with maximum penalty. But that is only a review of the video. I don't have all the facts.

You're behind! Everyone else in the thread has all the facts and can make a rational decision based on all the evidence, pyschological investigations, and witness testimony except for you.

Funny how all those other murders managed to end up in jail despite the lack of video from 4 different angles.

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

What court case? The cop isn't even charged with a crime. He wasn't even fired.

The investigation isn't done yet, either.

Well don't forget to bump this thread in 10 years when they decided to finish "investigating"

Ohhh! that's a low blow

With the media attention it might move a little quicker.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: LS21

Originally posted by: nkgreen

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

i want to look at my pistol, fumble around with it, and accidentally kill you

And you know what? You'd be 100% innocent until there was an investigation and you were convicted.

That's how shit works in this country.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: preslove
Heat of Passion doesn't count because the guy was lying face down, with his hands held behind his back by several police officers. Negligence is completely implausible because the cop pulled the gun from his holster, aimed and fired. Tasers weigh much lighter than pistols, are not kept in the gun holster, and look much different when aimed. You really have to be a gullible fool, or just an idiot who always sides with authority figures (see spidey) to believe that he was negligent, rather than intentioned.

You have obviously never held a fire arm or a taser given your statements, that means you cannot have a reasonable opinion and can be shoved away with the rest of the rabble, rabble, rabble posts.

Everyone has filed your posts away in the "spidey07 is a wingnut" drawer.

Look at some of his political right-wing apologist threads and "capitalist" or "free market" threads in P&N and you'd have done that long ago.

 

[DayLaPaul]

If I killed somebody that didn't deserve it, I'd expect the book to be thrown at me, no matter what my defense was.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: LS21

Originally posted by: nkgreen

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

i want to look at my pistol, fumble around with it, and accidentally kill you

And you know what? You'd be 100% innocent until there was an investigation and you were convicted.

That's how shit works in this country.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion also, which may or may not change as evidence is presented. That's how shit works in this country.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
If I killed somebody that didn't deserve it, I'd expect the book to be thrown at me, no matter what my defense was.

I take it that you aren't a member of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers union?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: smack Down
What court case? The cop isn't even charged with a crime. He wasn't even fired.

Are you fucking dense? Do you honestly think there isn't going to be any ramifications for his actions? Believe it or not, you usually gather evidence to go to the grand jury, etc.

Do you want to take him in the woods and shoot him in the head? Last time I checked, a suspect is innocent until proven guilty. And until there is a court case and ruling, he's just as innocent as you and I.

Show me one case with this amount of evidence where the person was not arrested before the investigation was 100% complete.

Here is a simple question is there more or less evidence for arresting the officer then there was for the officer to be arresting the victim in the first place.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: LS21

Originally posted by: nkgreen

How much of the court case have you heard? If you're so pissed, why not go outside and burn a couple cars and loot businesses?

i want to look at my pistol, fumble around with it, and accidentally kill you

And you know what? You'd be 100% innocent until there was an investigation and you were convicted.

That's how shit works in this country.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion also, which may or may not change as evidence is presented. That's how shit works in this country.

No doubt. But the lynch mob in this thread is ridiculous. People want to completely bypass criminal procedures in a case because of a cell phone video.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: smack Down
What court case? The cop isn't even charged with a crime. He wasn't even fired.

Are you fucking dense? Do you honestly think there isn't going to be any ramifications for his actions? Believe it or not, you usually gather evidence to go to the grand jury, etc.

Do you want to take him in the woods and shoot him in the head? Last time I checked, a suspect is innocent until proven guilty. And until there is a court case and ruling, he's just as innocent as you and I.

Show me one case with this amount of evidence where the person was not arrested before the investigation was 100% complete.

Here is a simple question is there more or less evidence for arresting the officer then there was for the officer to be arresting the victim in the first place.

I'm glad to see someone bring this issue up.

Also, regardless of the motivation behind the shooting, if the police officers involved had any respect for the rule of law or any sense of honor for their position, they would have immediately turned to the shooter and said "Sorry, man, but I've got to take you in." I realize they are probably buddies, or in the very least familiar coworkers, but come on. I would have much more respect for police in general if that ever happened.