New system questions

[maniacalpha1-1]

I'm interested in getting a speaker set like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16836121044

If anyone has a better recommendation than that for speakers let me know but the point of this inquiry is this - to drive a speaker setup like that, is a sound card in any way necessary or provides enough use to justify? I want to improve my sound a bit and get surround sound, but I am not actually crazy about sound. If it's not necessary then at least I can get a sound card off my upgrade list.

Also, thanks for the link - I am shamed not to have found it when I looked on the CM site

 

[mfenn]

No, an $80 6 channel setup doesn't have drivers good enough to benefit from a sound card. You won't be able to hear a difference (beyond usual Creative EQ shenanigans of course).

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

As I look ahead to a new monitor in the coming months, I note that 2560 X 1440 ones don't seem to have less than a 5ms response time, whereas with 1920 X 1080, 2ms is available. How important is that?

 

[riversend]

This issue is pretty difficult to come to any concrete answers on. Different folks have a different tolerance for how their monitor behaves, whether it is input lag or response time for color changes. In general the faster the GtG response time the better for gaming. The breakpoint for folks seems to generally be agreed at ~8ms response times (below that good, above that bad), but people will argue that even 5ms is not good enough. Personally, I am not a hardcore, multi-player FPS gamer, so I'm good with the 8ms response times.

What you need to do is read reviews at various websites and then make your own choice. Folks can probably tell you to stay away from certain types of panels based on your usage (gaming vs. photo editing for example), but response time is a far more personal decision IMHO.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Well, personally, I use 1680 X 1050 right now, so surely 1920 X 1080 will be a good improvement? Only, I really want to get 27" monitor and I was told by at least one person that you really shouldn't go over 24" unless you're going past 1920? Though that either seems not right, or like it too is a personal thing. I also want to get a TV and frankly, for the price of a 2560 X 1440 monitor I can probably get both a 1920 X 1080 monitor and a tv.

 

[mfenn]

It depends on how big you want your pixels. Personally, I feel that 24" is about the limit for a 1920-wide monitor when used at normal monitor distances (1'-2'). Anything bigger than that and the pixels become big enough to be distracting. That is just my opinion though, others have different feelings.

For me, the main gains in going for a 2560-wide display are in productivity. I feel like I can manage a lot more windows doing a lot more different things with the extra desktop real estate. Gaming is also more immersive, but to properly game at 2560 requires a pretty beefy (and expensive) GPU setup.

I know that there's not a hard and fast answer buried in all of that, but that's because there really is no hard and fast answer. Bigger and more pixels is generally better, but you've gotta have the budget for it, both on the monitor and on the GPU side of the equation.

PS. I usually don't worry too much about pixel response time (what you see quoted in specs) because it is super easy for manufacturer's to bend the truth. Input processing latency is a far bigger issue IMHO, and you will only get measurements of that by reading a proper review.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

It depends on how big you want your pixels. Personally, I feel that 24" is about the limit for a 1920-wide monitor when used at normal monitor distances (1'-2'). Anything bigger than that and the pixels become big enough to be distracting. That is just my opinion though, others have different feelings.

For me, the main gains in going for a 2560-wide display are in productivity. I feel like I can manage a lot more windows doing a lot more different things with the extra desktop real estate. Gaming is also more immersive, but to properly game at 2560 requires a pretty beefy (and expensive) GPU setup.

I know that there's not a hard and fast answer buried in all of that, but that's because there really is no hard and fast answer. Bigger and more pixels is generally better, but you've gotta have the budget for it, both on the monitor and on the GPU side of the equation.

PS. I usually don't worry too much about pixel response time (what you see quoted in specs) because it is super easy for manufacturer's to bend the truth. Input processing latency is a far bigger issue IMHO, and you will only get measurements of that by reading a proper review.

LOL, you should see the thread I made about projectors...I basically decided I was going to do some long term planning and make a very good setup - even if takes 2 years to put aside the cash - so I'm trying to learn everything I can. I was thinking my goals are these:
1. Get a good monitor for regular computer use
2. Put together either a triple projector setup, or a triple monitor or LED TV setup for gaming.

It basically looks like it boils down to this:
3 Projectors: Pro : DLP is very good response time, projectors don't weigh much or take up a lot of physical space. Con: Very hard to set up, expensive, need blending software.

3 monitors or (for example) 40" LED TVs: Pro: Very easy to set up Con: Bezels are a pain, TVs take up space, weigh a lot, and even if monitors might lie about response times, TVs don't seem to even tell you anything at all, so I don't even know how to find out.

I know I'm all over the place, but a couple of weeks ago I happened upon a 480p projector that was $200 so I thought "oh- cool!", and I of course quickly learned that 480p is junk, so now I'm just carrying out the natural order of progression from that point of discovery.

I've been talking about it at http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2270275 , if you had any interest in commenting.

And yea, I know a GTX 560 Ti won't cut it. As of right now I'd figure I would need a GTX 690 to run such a thing(as I don't have an SLI board), on the other hand, by this time next year, maybe what right now could only be though of as an HD 8970 or GTX 780 would be good enough to drive such a setup - I've taken that into account as well.

As for budget, yea this would all cost $3000 or $4000 easy, but I put together my current PC over a year for $800ish watching for deals when it could have cost $1200 bought all at once, I figure if it takes me 2-3 years to do the same for this, it's OK - it will get done. Though if I knew a bezeless 32 or 40" TV was coming, I'd wait for that.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

So I started off by getting one Samsung 32" 1080p TV and it looks awesome in games. The desktop is a little meh but not too bad. Planetside 2 looks VERY nice on 32". For reference, my eyes sit at about 30 inches from the screen.

So basically, I think what I'm doing now is, waiting and saving money until the next GPU line comes out, ie 8970 or 780, and getting one of those and 2 more TVs at the same time to set up my racing stuff. Assuming of course that my PSU will run an 8970 or 780....

Also, if I wanted to keep a monitor, ie 4th screen, to have the desktop and icons on, how would I manage that? A GPU(unless there's an eyefinity 6 version or something) will probably only have 3 slots.

 

[mfenn]

If you don't plan to game on the monitor, you can just run that off the IGP.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Looking for a new surge protector...with the one I've got now(and I can't even tell what brand it is), I still have monitors direct to outlets due to lack of plugs.

This good?

http://www.jr.com/belkin/pe/BKN_AS2120008DP/

 

[mfenn]

It looks OK. Really any surge protector is about as good as another (unless it is suspiciously cheap like $2 or something). For greatest protection, you should use a UPS.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Well, I was running out of plugs so I went and bought a 7 plug Monster protector.

Anyway, this reminds me....my room no doubt has all outlets on the same circuit...that being the case, and me not knowing about electricity, does a single standard residential circuit have enough juice to power everything? When I'm all done, I'm going to have:
1. The PC build you know, though if I need to, I will replace the PSU with a 750 or 850 watt IF needed when I get a new GPU in the GTX 700/HD8000 series.
2. 3 33 watt LED TVs
3. Possibly a monitor as 4th screen
4. a 5.1 computer speaker system (probably a creative T6160)
5. the cable box(Comcast)
6. console(PS3 probably)
7. small refrigerator, 420 kw/h yearly, as I say I know little of electricity and don't know how to convert that to a simple watts figure
8. Alarm clock
9. simple fan
10. Printer
11. cell phone charger

That's about it...plus a vacuum or something on occasion.

And, I didn't just list that for the purpose of the circuit...I notice there are different wattage choices for UPC...so I am not sure what I have to get. Basically all of that but the charger, fan and clock would be on it, if I had one.

 

[mfenn]

A typical household 120V circuit is on a 15A breaker. That being said, if you have an older house or apartment, it may very well be a 10A breaker. This is easy enough to check at the breaker box, the amperage should be labeled on the breaker itself. You never want to use more than 80% of a circuit (unless you enjoy flipping the breaker). Ignoring power factor, that leaves us with 120V * 15A * .8 = 1440W maximum draw.

BTW, you can also use the breaker box to figure out which outlets are on which circuits. Just turn off a breaker, check for power at each outlet, then do the next breaker, and so on.

Using conservative numbers, let's say you have the following:

500W PC
150W for TVs (You sure the TV's are 33W? That sounds really low.)
50W monitor
100W speaker
50W cable box
100W PS3 slim
= 950W so far

The alarm clock, phone charger, and fan are going to use pretty much no power, maybe 10W all together.

The printer depends on whether or not it is inkjet or laser. Also, what about lights?

The kWH (that's kilowatts times hours, not kilowatts divided by hours) rating of your refrigerator could be used to calculate an average power draw over the year (420 kWH/year / 365 days / 24 hours * 1000W = 48W), but that's not really useful because the power draw will be much higher when the compressor is running and essentially nil when it isn't. Also, I would not recommend putting a refrigerator on a UPS, that's an unnecessary load.

As it stands, you're probably getting pretty close to capacity if you have a single 15A circuit, but you should be OK. Forget about putting all that stuff on there if you have a single 10A.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Oh - I would not put the refrigerator on a UPS.

This is the TV I have one of so far and am looking for two more as funds allow, Samsung site says typical power comsumption is 33w: http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN32EH5000FXZA-specs

And according to newegg, the speaker setup is 50w: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...6049&Tpk=t6160

Is a PS3 really 100w? Well, that said, I would probably have the PC idled while using it. Certainly not at load running games...

Now, I did leave out the one fixed thing in the whole place - a 4 bulb ceiling light with ceiling fan.

One thing I could possibly do is run an extension cord to the refrigerator from another room/circuit? To split that off to another one, that is.

 

[mfenn]

Check the specs on Wikipedia, the original PS3 used just over 200W whereas the slim took that down to about 80W. I used conservative numbers because you definitely don't want to over draw.

As for the ceiling fixture, you're probably looking at 260W or so if you're using normal incandescent bulbs. 70W or so with CFLs.

That being said, you should really take a trip to the breaker box and figure out what you have to work with before making any crazy plans.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Ah, stuff to think about!

Well, as it happens I'm moving soon, I might have my TVs by then, but I won't have a 4th monitor by then(and, I probably won't get the 4th monitor, it's just an outside possibility), or a PS3 by then either.

So, I won't be able to check the circuit box for a couple of weeks (yep, moving that soon). I had forgotten, however, that my room there does not have a ceiling fan and I'm not sure about the light, but probably just 1 bulb - which I can of course be sure to use CFL. Note to self - replace whatever bulb is there with the lowest wattage bulb I can get away with and be well enough lit.

Now - all that said - this is an apartment complex built in 1988 - and what I don't know about electricity, I know even less about electrical layouts - but is there any likelihood that a bedroom may have one or more outlets on one circuit and one or more on another?

 

[mfenn]

1988 is pretty recent in terms of electricity, when I referred to "older" before, I was thinking 1950's or so. You should have 15A circuits, though I'm willing to bet that the whole bedroom is one one circuit (apartment complex builders are not known for splurging on such things).

All in all, I think that you should be fine with your load, the only thing that concerns me is the refrigerator. Can you post the exact model number?

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Refrigerator is a Haier HNDE03VS.

 

[mfenn]

Hmm, I couldn't really find any information on that specific model. I did turn up some others of a similar size that use about 75W though, and I don't have any reason to believe that the Haier is spectacularly inefficient.

You might want to take a look around the inside and outside for a label that says something like, "max power draw" or "max amperage" though.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I have of course two monitors plugged into my 560 Ti, and I tried moving one to the onboard video. Is there a reason why that didn't work, or does it not hotplug? I didn't try powering down and doing it.

 

[mfenn]

There is a BIOS option that you have to set that allows the IGP to be enabled when a discrete GPU is plugged in.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

So I got another TV for a second monitor, but when I put programs on it and maximize them, they maximize past the border of the screen to where the minimize buttons can't be reached, and even double clicking on the top bar won't do anything. How do I fix that?

Edit: Figured it out, it was a TV setting, not the video card/desktop resolution setting.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I'm looking at building a system similar to mine for someone but they are more price sensitive than I was. The Asrock Z75 Pro3, what is Z75 missing, if anything? It's a little cheaper.

 

[mfenn]

I'm looking at building a system similar to mine for someone but they are more price sensitive than I was. The Asrock Z75 Pro3, what is Z75 missing, if anything? It's a little cheaper.

Z75 doesn't have SRT (SSD caching) support, but otherwise its the same as Z77.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

New build complete, bad power cable routing as usual, but success! Unfortunately they didn't spring for a video card yet, I guess they just want to use it for internet right now. Ended up using a Lian Li case(forget the model), neo eco 520, 3470, the Asrock Z75, a Vertex 4 128, WD Caviar Blue 320, Win 7(suck it Microsoft).