New system questions

[maniacalpha1-1]

So it's that time, to build a new system. Here is my proposed build:
Already Owned Parts
1. Unused Coolermaster Storm Enforcer Case
2. Unused Antec Neo Eco 620 (48 amps going by Newegg )
3. Currently in use :Samsung 1 TB HD103SJ Steam Drive
4. Currently in use :OCZ Vertex 2 60GB Windows Drive
5. Currently in use :Caviar Blue 320GB Origin Drive and misc files/programs
6. Currently in use :GTX 560Ti Twin Frozr II

Proposed Parts
1. Motherboard TBD
2. I5 2500k $220
3. aftermarket cooler TBD
4. 4 x 4 GB ram; currently G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8Q-16GBZH $140
5. Crucial M4 SSD 128(for important multiplayer games) $165
6. Win 7 Pro $140
7. Random DVD RW drive $25
8. At least one extra case fan $8
9. ASUS VH232H 1080p LCD Monitor $140

Here are my questions:
1. I'm assuming 2500k is plenty powerful for the next few years
2. Need a motherboard recommendation. 1 PCI-E GPU slot is fine.
3. Need an aftermarket CPU cooler recommendation. Might do minor overclocking.
4. Initially I will reuse my 560Ti, but what is the max GPU can I use with the 48amp Neo Eco 620? Using what I found on MSI's site, a 7970 is 40 amp but needs 650 watts...would a 7950 be safe(the info I was looking at only has 7970)? I won't ask about Nvidia stuff yet pending their new releases.

Basically I need a motherboard and aftermarket cooler recommendation, and amperage guidance for max GPU on the PSU. Everything else I'm pretty much decided on unless there's a problem I haven't seen. Budget for 2 parts I need recommendations on is whatever it is, if someone can recommend a $120 motherboard that is quality, great, if a $220 one is better to avoid problems then so be it.

And for any sticklers for this stuff:


1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing. Shooter games, MMOs, etc
2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread See comments above, all parts budgeted except 2 and those cost what they cost
3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from. US
4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc. No
5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are. As stated
7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds. Yes, in the fullness of time
8. What resolution will you be using? 1080p
9. WHEN do you plan to build it? 1-3 months

 

[lehtv]

Proposed Parts
1. Motherboard TBD
2. I5 2500k $220
3. aftermarket cooler TBD
4. 4 x 4 GB ram; currently G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8Q-16GBZH $140
5. Crucial M4 SSD 128(for important multiplayer games) $165
6. Win 7 Pro $140
7. Random DVD RW drive $25
8. At least one extra case fan $8
9. ASUS VH232H 1080p LCD Monitor $140

1. Asrock Z68 Pro3 Gen3 $105 shipped or Asus P8Z68-V LE $128 shipped; the latter will get you USB3.0 in the front panel (if your storm enforcer has the ports) and 3 years of warranty
2. Good
3. Buy it when you decide to OC. Keep an eye on Hyper 212+ and 212 Evo pricing.
4. No need for 16GB, it's a gaming PC. Games don't even fully utilise 8GB as of now. Buy 2x4GB now ($40), then buy more once you've determined you actually max out 8GB. Also, $140 is way too much for 4x4GB 1600Mhz; two of the Mushkin kits would be just $80.
5. Sure, if multiplayer loading times are important to you, and you have enough such games to fill that drive.
6. What do you need the Pro version for? You'll probably never ever need more than 16GB RAM, and you're also very unlikely to need windows xp virtualization
7. Yeah
8. Unneeded, Storm Enforcer has decent stock cooling
9. Spend more on this. Monitor is important. I'd consider 27" 60hz or 23" 120hz, 1080p TN.

what is the max GPU can I use with the 48amp Neo Eco 620?

Any GPU setup which utilizes the included 1 x 6-pin and 1 x (6+2)-pin PCI-E connectors will work fine.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it? 1-3 months

That late? In 1-3 months, you could buy a new Intel Ivy Bridge i5-3570K. Faster and less power hungry than 2500K, and presumably overclocks just as well if not better (wait for reviews).

 

[Ken g6]

1. Yes.
2. ASUS P8Z68 V LE strike your fancy? (I picked it over any ASRock product because it has USB 3.0 headers to match your case.) What features are you looking for in a mobo?
3. Cooler Master Hyper 212+.
4. I generally calculate minimum PSU requirements by taking these wattage measurements, adding 100W for everything else, dividing by 12V, and then comparing to the PSU's 12V rail(s). Working backwards from your PSU, I get that it could handle a 476W card. The 7970 clocks in at 376W, leaving a 100W margin for error. Of course, that doesn't include overclocking. Do you plan to overclock both the CPU and the GPU at the same time? In that case I might knock the GPU down to the 7950.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

That Asus P8Z68 V LE looks good, and you both recommended it. CoolerMaster 212+ is only $30 so that looks good. The only non-standard feature I'd care about is SLI or CF but since I already have a PSU, and would probably never buy a second GPU anyway. With any luck there will be an awesome Nvidia offering upcoming, perhaps the 660 Ti.

What do you recommend on monitor? I wasn't too worried about budget based on the parts I selected and anticipated but monitor is one place it could easily go from $140 to $600...

 

[lehtv]

Acer B273Hbmidhz 27" 1080p @ 60hz height adjustable monitor
Asus Ve278Q LED 27" if you don't care about height adjustment
Asus VG326HE 23.6" 1080 @ 120hz if you want to try out 120hz gaming
Dell U2412M 23.6" 1920x1200 @ 60hz if you want to try out IPS image quality, it should work for gaming but I have no firsthand experience with it

Of course, in 1-3 months availability and pricing may have changed enough for some other choices to make more sense.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

So here's what I thought I'd do:
1. Drop the game SSD to a 64 GB Crucial, $95 instead of $165. That should hold Planetside 2 and 1 or 2 other games.
2. I currently have 2GB X 4 of G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK. I could just get 2GB X 2 more, yank 2 X2 out of my old system. $29.99 for 2 X2. Or even take it all and just tell who I pass my old machine to to get their own RAM.
3. Drop to win 7 home premium.
4. Use the Asrock you linked

All together, MB, processor, extra RAM, coolermaster 212, 64 GB SSD, win 7HP, DVD RW drive, $605.93 + tax and shipping, not counting any combo deals possible later.

That should leave me with plenty of room to look at a good monitor and 7950/GTX 670.

 

[lehtv]

2. I currently have 2GB X 4 of G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK. I could just get 2GB X 2 more, yank 2 X2 out of my old system. $29.99 for 2 X2. Or even take it all and just tell who I pass my old machine to to get their own RAM.

I'd keep the 4x2GB in the current rig for passing on to the next user. Buy the 2x4GB kit I linked, it's great value for money and you won't need more RAM than that.

 

[mfenn]

Rather than having two SSDs in the same system, I think that I'd just get a 128GB m4 to use for everything and pass the Vertex 2 on to another system or sell it.

Rest of the recommendations look good to me.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Rather than having two SSDs in the same system, I think that I'd just get a 128GB m4 to use for everything and pass the Vertex 2 on to another system or sell it.

Rest of the recommendations look good to me.

Well, here's the problem I have had, and maybe it's something to do with the Vertex 2. It has of course made windows startup and windows program startup(firefox, etc) fast, but, it does almost nothing to game loading times in general, and literally nothing to BF2/BF3/BC2. I've had all these games both on the SSD and one one of the HDDs. I haven't had Everquest on the SSD, but in theory the SSD should have taken some of the pressure off the HDD and EQ doesn't load noticeably faster either.

So is that something to do with the specific SSD I have, or that I need the games on a second SSD, or something completely unrelated?

 

[mfenn]

While I can't speak about the intricacies of your settings, the Vertex 2 is no slouch. Lots of games simply don't benefit that much from SSDs. If you want to see if the game is even putting any load on your SSD, pop open the Resource Monitor and go to the Disk tab. If you see that your SSD's disk queue length remains low while loading, that means that the game isn't asking very much from the SSD. If you see the DQL spike, that means that your SSD is having a hard time keeping up.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

What about recording in-game video using fraps etc, does extra ram, or other concerns matter for that? I don't have a HDD capacity issue as I have no intention of making many of them.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

CPU power and RAM is the main usage of FRAPS. so yes, ram helps, but cpu power is also helpful

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

CPU power and RAM is the main usage of FRAPS. so yes, ram helps, but cpu power is also helpful

When I look through CPU benchmarks I really have only ever focused on gaming frames per second. And in that regard, I can't imagine needing to go past a 2500k, as the FPS results don't go up too much. But this recording is something different so I'd have to ask if it's actually worth it to go up to a 2600 or even a 3820 just for that? If I were looking at, say, AT Bench CPU benchmarks, which one(s) are most relevant to this?

 

[mfenn]

The #1 most important part for FRAPS is that you have an HDD with a lot of space and consistent performance. That generally means a drive that only FRAPS is touching during the recording session.

The CPU usage really depends on the game. A FRAPSing a CPU-intensive game can indeed benefit from throwing a hexacore at the problem, but that's really expensive. Otherwise, you could see some benefit from the i7.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I have a question on RAM. Anything above 1600, ie in this case 1866, it calls overclocking. Is that really overclocking? I mean, if it's 1.5v RAM and all you're doing is changing it to 1866 in your BIOS, isn't it still running at 1.5v? And, in any event, that's really all you have to do, right?

I was looking at this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231538 because it was higher bandwidth and still CAS 8. And yes, I did some research, in looking at this http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/memory/2011/01/11/the-best-memory-for-sandy-bridge/6 I see that it means virtually nothing for gaming, I was thinking of other than game performance.

Also, some motherboards in their listings, skip the 1866 and only list 2133. Is that an error? You can still use 1866 RAM in them? example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157271

 

[MPiland]

I have a question on RAM. Anything above 1600, ie in this case 1866, it calls overclocking. Is that really overclocking? I mean, if it's 1.5v RAM and all you're doing is changing it to 1866 in your BIOS, isn't it still running at 1.5v? And, in any event, that's really all you have to do, right?

I was looking at this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231538 because it was higher bandwidth and still CAS 8. And yes, I did some research, in looking at this http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/memory/2011/01/11/the-best-memory-for-sandy-bridge/6 I see that it means virtually nothing for gaming, I was thinking of other than game performance.

Also, some motherboards in their listings, skip the 1866 and only list 2133. Is that an error? You can still use 1866 RAM in them? example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157271

After doing a bit of research myself on RAM, I've come to the conclusion that anything above 1600 MHZ isn't even noticeable in realworld gains. You'll only notice in benchmarks and just slightly at that, so really you shouldn't need to be overclocking your ram. And, you can't just up the speed without messing with the voltage. Each setup is different so it requires some playing with it to get the right settings.

 

[MPiland]

sorry double post

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Well, I went ahead and got the DDR3 1600 Mushkin Blackline 2X4GB. Buying it bit by bit, soon I'll only have to spring for the mobo and CPU...

 

[mfenn]

I have a question on RAM. Anything above 1600, ie in this case 1866, it calls overclocking. Is that really overclocking? I mean, if it's 1.5v RAM and all you're doing is changing it to 1866 in your BIOS, isn't it still running at 1.5v? And, in any event, that's really all you have to do, right?

It is technically overclocking because the IMC in the CPU is only rated for 1600. It's pretty low risk overclocking though. Not that increasing the memory speed really does much in a lot of situations.

Well, I went ahead and got the DDR3 1600 Mushkin Blackline 2X4GB. Buying it bit by bit, soon I'll only have to spring for the mobo and CPU...

Good move. :thumbsup:

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Is the upcoming Intel launch of the 3770K supposed to be more powerful than the 3820? If so, at this point I guess I will need new mobo recommendations as soon as mobos start coming out for it.

 

[azeem40]

You can't really compare two CPUs of different sockets.

 

[lehtv]

Sure you can. Processor performance and cost is one of the factors by which to decide which platform or socket to choose.

3770K is faster and consumes less power: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5626/ivy-bridge-preview-core-i7-3770k/5

 

[Ken g6]

Where they don't compare is that the 3770k is overclockable, while the 3820 is not.

The real trick will be comparing the overclockability of the 3770k to that of the 2600k, or of the 3750k to that of the 2500k. TweakTown tried, with an engineering sample. Their conclusion: The new chips aren't as overclockable, but run faster than the old chips overclocked in many cases. Though I remain concerned about reliability and heat. We should have more definitive results in about a week.

 

[mfenn]

Is the upcoming Intel launch of the 3770K supposed to be more powerful than the 3820? If so, at this point I guess I will need new mobo recommendations as soon as mobos start coming out for it.

Sandy Bridge-E has the same micro-architecture as Sandy Bridge, so the per-core speed will be very similar. The only reason to go with one of the quad-core SB-E's is if you need a lot of memory, which you don't. The Socket 1155 SB or IB platform is much more cost-effective for your purposes.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

What is a good liquid cooling system? I was looking at them and saw that they only cost $60-$100 and I assume they last a long time and could be reused through multiple systems...?

I looked at the overclocker's club reviews of Corsair H60/80/100 and they had comments like "Thermal dump into chassis with default fan configuration"...