New rotors or resurface existing? *QUICK QUESTION FIRST POST SATURDAY!*

[Zenmervolt]

Just be glad that you don't have to pull the hub off the spindle (though with FWD it's probably the rears that are on spindles...) to get the rotor off. Last car I pulled apart had the rotors cast as part of the hub so when I took it off the wheel bearing came apart (I was replacing the bearings, but the rotor was still cast as part of the hub). It's kind of a pain to set the pre-load on the bearing. Mainly because the car has no torque specs for the hub bolt, just a line that says, "when there is just barely any play in the hub, you have tightened the hub bolt properly".

ZV

 

[zixxer]

SKOORB:


in this pic:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Skoorb/disccloseup.JPG

The torque member is already off (that's the thing the caliper was bolted to). That center bolt needs to be left alone, there is nothing holding the rotor back other than the lugnuts that hold the wheel on.

 

[StageLeft]

Bump!

 

[zixxer]

I've never heard of using dielectric grease.



I wouldn't. It's not designed for lubrication; it's designed for sealing out water of an electrical connection (or for spark plugs, preventing the boot from sticking to the plug in high heat situations.)

 

[Vette73]

Yes that will work. Dielectric grease has a lot of uses. Can also be used as a low grade anti-seeze.
Just use a little, it does not take a lot and you don't want so much it gets on the rotor.

 

[StageLeft]

ok

I noticed my OEM pads (they were nissan I found out) had two of the metal shims on them. I'm not sure why, but I'm going to use only the outer one (meaning both inner and outter pads had two each - I will be giving only the one metal shim to each of them). I guess there is no anti-squeal/grease that goes between the back of the pad and the shim, but rather ONLY the back of the shim (where the brakes press on it).

See, with all these questions I'll be able to help in the future and you guys can save the typing

 

[Vette73]

Your new pads should have them, if not you can reuse the old ones. I never have but as long as there is enough clearance and they are not moving around they should be OK

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Your new pads should have them, if not you can reuse the old ones. I never have but as long as there is enough clearance and they are not moving around they should be OK

Here is a pic I took. I thought that the shims were the metal things and that you had to put them on the pads...? There were two metal shims on each of the old ones remember

 

[Vette73]

Yea DON'T use them. You can see the new pads already have shims. Using 2 shims may be bad.


PS I like the liberal use of the paper towels Don't like to get dirty do you.

 

[Antisocial Virge]

My god man!! paper towels??!! No rags? What type of mechanic are you?

 

[Ornery]

That's a 2000 Maxima, which means you pulled off the original pads, right? Why do these wondrous OEM pads not match the originals exactly?

 

[CFster]

The "torque member", is actually called the "caliper anchor", and they usually come with a new caliper if you buy one.

The big nut in the center holds the cv shaft inside the hub and bearing assembly. Loosen it, and the cv shaft will start backing out. So don't do that.

Turning rotors is a waste of time, isn't recommended by the manufacturers anymore (and I have documentation to prove it), and will increase the chance of the rotors warping again. Once the metal has warped, it essentially turns into a spring and wants to KEEP bending. It WILL happen again.

To get a rotor off wack it with a LARGE hammer on the inside face as you rotate the hub (so you are hitting it evenly). This is if you can't remove it using the two bolts. You're knocking the rotor off the hub from the back. Do this because you don't care about the rotor anymore since you're REPLACING it. Hitting it around the center (as some here have suggested) only contributes to the warping problem that you will have again.

Decent pads will have come with the adhesive backing plates. You shouldn't have to transfer anything. And for God sakes don't use any of that antisqueal goop. And stay away from ceramic pads if you're concerned about noise.

And this isn't a Porsche. So just buy a rotor - don't pay extra for a Brembo.

CF - 18yr ASE mechanic.

 

[Ornery]

"...for God sakes don't use any of that antisqueal goop."

Why not?

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: CFster
The "torque member", is actually called the "caliper anchor", and they usually come with a new caliper if you buy one.

The big nut in the center holds the cv shaft inside the hub and bearing assembly. Loosen it, and the cv shaft will start backing out. So don't do that.

Turning rotors is a waste of time, isn't recommended by the manufacturers anymore (and I have documentation to prove it), and will increase the chance of the rotors warping again. Once the metal has warped, it essentially turns into a spring and wants to KEEP bending. It WILL happen again.

To get a rotor off wack it with a LARGE hammer on the inside face as you rotate the hub (so you are hitting it evenly). This is if you can't remove it using the two bolts. You're knocking the rotor off the hub from the back. Do this because you don't care about the rotor anymore since you're REPLACING it. Hitting it around the center (as some here have suggested) only contributes to the warping problem that you will have again.

Decent pads will have come with the adhesive backing plates. You shouldn't have to transfer anything. And for God sakes don't use any of that antisqueal goop. And stay away from ceramic pads if you're concerned about noise.

And this isn't a Porsche. So just buy a rotor - don't pay extra for a Brembo.

CF - 18yr ASE mechanic.

For an 18yr ase mech I don't think you have one fscking clue what your doing.


DO use the anti squeal. Put a dab on the back of the pad, then place ONE shim (re-use the old one if you have to), then put a dab where the piston hits the shim (or where the caliper hits the brake pad.)

To re-iterate:
The correct term PER NISSAN is torque member.

Nissan can sell you the shims if you want new ones, but I've re-used mine through numerous brake jobs and never had a problem.



Again:

for each pad (a total of 4) put a dab of anti squeal, then the shim, then anti squeal where the piston hits the shim




Skoorb, don't you live in/around atlanta? YGPM

 

[CFster]

With the anti squeal shims installed the goop is redundant.

It can also cause the pad to sit unevenly in the anchor and against the caliper.

It's an outdated method, and cars don't come with it from the factory for a reason.

New, quality pads are sold with shims and anti-rattle clips and that's all that is necessary. You'll notice that there's no tube of goop in the box anymore. And if there is, then it's a substandard set of pads - most likely for a domestic car too.

se7enty7, you're an idiot poser who's been blabbing nonsense since the start of this thread.

Did I actually see you tell the guy to put a dab of anti-squeal on the pad, THEN put the shim on, then some more anti-squeal? You DO realize that the shims have adhesive backs don't you? So putting the compound between the shim and the pad will cause it to move around causing even more noise right? Oh, and also most new quality pads come with them already installed - what are you going to do, PEAL them off, then put them back on again?

Also, your suggestion to turn the rotors (even though they weren't warped) if the guy was just changing pads was just plain wrong. Utter and complete waste of money. Another outdated way of doing brakes. Most of the manufacturers have TSBs now stating that rotors shouldn't be turned unless they're SEVERELY scored. The new pads will wear into the grooves instantly. The new composite rotors are just too flimsy - they would rather you replace them if needed.

Get a clue.

And what's your claim to fame, and are you ASE certified?

 

[TechnoKid]

ImportReplacementParts is the least expensive place I have found to buy brembo rotors. They also have a very good customer service (I had a question about a brake pad wear sensor on a particular pad (Pagid for Audi) and the guy took actual pictures of the pad for me (not just a stock photo)....thats going out of your way).

Also, I don't see what is the big deal about ceramic pads. Many cars do come standard with ceramic pads. Honda specifies ceramic pads for their accords, afaik. I just recently put on Akebono ProACT on my moms accord and brembo blank rotors; no noise whatsoever.

IMO, turning rotors is ok, but with the price that brembo blanks are its worth it to me to get new ones, especially when you figure the interval that you replace pads at or rotors at.

Also, Warped disc brakes... is a good read.

For caliper slide pin grease, I use permatex synthetic grease. For disc brake quiet tuff, the permatex spray can has worked the best for me. I've tried almost every kind of goop, and permetex worked the best. The red stuff from CRC is ok, but not great. I find that the spray works better because you don't have to worry about sealing that little small packet that the stuff usually comes in; you use only what you need with the spray. I put the stuff both in between the backing plate and the shim and a thin layer on the outside of the shim. If the pad comes with a preapplied sticky stuff (like 3M stuff) or preapplied shim or stick on shim, I do not use the permatex stuff.

As for why the rotor isn't coming off easily, well look at it; it looks as if there is a crap load of rust holding it on. Whack it really hard with a hammer (Temporarily put on a lug nut so the rotor doesn't fall off suddenly). Make sure to clean the hub really well after you remove the rotor. Maybe get a wire brush or some GARNET paper (NOT sandpaper, the aluminum oxide will ruin the rotors and pads) and take off anything that won't come off with brake cleaner. You can use some antiseize in between the rotor and the hub, but I don't reccomend antiseize bewteen the face of the rotor and the wheel because the antiseize acts like a heat barrier; your wheel is a somewhat effective heat sink for your brakes.

Get that broken wheel stud fixed.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: CFster
With the anti squeal shims installed the goop is redundant.

It can also cause the pad to sit unevenly in the anchor and against the caliper.

It's an outdated method, and cars don't come with it from the factory for a reason.

New, quality pads are sold with shims and anti-rattle clips and that's all that is necessary. You'll notice that there's no tube of goop in the box anymore. And if there is, then it's a substandard set of pads - most likely for a domestic car too.

se7enty7, you're an idiot poser who's been blabbing nonsense since the start of this thread.

Did I actually see you tell the guy to put a dab of anti-squeal on the pad, THEN put the shim on, then some more anti-squeal? You DO realize that the shims have adhesive backs don't you? So putting the compound between the shim and the pad will cause it to move around causing even more noise right? Oh, and also most new quality pads come with them already installed - what are you going to do, PEAL them off, then put them back on again?

Also, your suggestion to turn the rotors (even though they weren't warped) if the guy was just changing pads was just plain wrong. Utter and complete waste of money. Another outdated way of doing brakes. Most of the manufacturers have TSBs now stating that rotors shouldn't be turned unless they're SEVERELY scored. The new pads will wear into the grooves instantly. The new composite rotors are just too flimsy - they would rather you replace them if needed.

Get a clue.

And what's your claim to fame, and are you ASE certified?

If he's using OEM NISSAN pads they WON'T come with shims. PER Nissan's FSM you are supposed to put anti squeel on the pad, then place the shim, then on the back of the shim where it mates with the caliper and where it mates with the piston.



Gee... I guess nissan's wrong thing right? :roll:


I also don't believe for one second your ASE certified. You really are blowing wasteless chunks of mis-information out about all of this.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: se7enty7

Originally posted by: CFster
With the anti squeal shims installed the goop is redundant.

It can also cause the pad to sit unevenly in the anchor and against the caliper.

It's an outdated method, and cars don't come with it from the factory for a reason.

New, quality pads are sold with shims and anti-rattle clips and that's all that is necessary. You'll notice that there's no tube of goop in the box anymore. And if there is, then it's a substandard set of pads - most likely for a domestic car too.

se7enty7, you're an idiot poser who's been blabbing nonsense since the start of this thread.

Did I actually see you tell the guy to put a dab of anti-squeal on the pad, THEN put the shim on, then some more anti-squeal? You DO realize that the shims have adhesive backs don't you? So putting the compound between the shim and the pad will cause it to move around causing even more noise right? Oh, and also most new quality pads come with them already installed - what are you going to do, PEAL them off, then put them back on again?

Also, your suggestion to turn the rotors (even though they weren't warped) if the guy was just changing pads was just plain wrong. Utter and complete waste of money. Another outdated way of doing brakes. Most of the manufacturers have TSBs now stating that rotors shouldn't be turned unless they're SEVERELY scored. The new pads will wear into the grooves instantly. The new composite rotors are just too flimsy - they would rather you replace them if needed.

Get a clue.

And what's your claim to fame, and are you ASE certified?

If he's using OEM NISSAN pads they WON'T come with shims. PER Nissan's FSM you are supposed to put anti squeel on the pad, then place the shim, then on the back of the shim where it mates with the caliper and where it mates with the piston.



Gee... I guess nissan's wrong thing right? :roll:


I also don't believe for one second your ASE certified. You really are blowing wasteless chunks of mis-information out about all of this.

Nope, Nissan's right - whatever book you're reading is wrong. Actually, I don't think you're using a book - I think you're making it up as you go along.

Feel free to check it on AllData. You'll have to buy an account, but I use a professional login. AllData uses scans out of the factory service manuals. So, either pay a fortune for a "factory" service manual, or the $24.95 subscription per vehicle for a year. Otherwise, you can shove your Chiltons or whatever you have up your ass. And yes, Nissan pads come with shims, already installed - with glue.

Oh, and you're an idiot.

And I don't care if you don't believe I'm ASE certified. Frankly the brake test was easy. Any hotshot out of trade school can pass it easily (and still not know a thing). I judge my experience based on 18years in the industry and my position as service manager at a fleet wholesale auction that services and sells thousands of Nissans yearly.

 

[Ornery]

I'd still like to know why Skoorb's 'OEM' replacement pads don't look like what came off of his car? Did this thing have the pads replaced inside of 3 years?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I'd still like to know why Skoorb's 'OEM' replacement pads don't look like what came off of his car? Did this thing have the pads replaced inside of 3 years?

Sorry for not responding earlier



OK, everything is done and seems to be working. The car stops Here's what I did:

Replaced the stud with one from advance auto parts (Bless the lord they actually had one left for my car). This was quite easy to do, and as galvanizedyankee suggested (and I forgot to do!) go slow while torquing the stud on and use a lubricant to avoid stripping/ruining the stud & lug nut. I did minimal damage to both (though the most damage on the stud was so deep in that lug nuts would not even grab on to it that deep, so no worry), but lube would have helped. With a breaker bar the thing went on without too much effort.

Brakes: For these I also posted on the maxima forums and I got little responses with exception to one guy who said that he'd gone through three OEM rotors in a year using OEM pads. He then switched over to performance friction pads (about half the price) and is now on his second set with the same set of rotors. His conclusion was that the OEM pads were faulty. Another fellow responded and said that he thought that pads were responsible for warping in our cars more times than not. So, I bought performance friction pads.

In regards to how long the OEMs lasted I bought the car with 37k. I can't say if they were replaced before then or not. The car has 67k on it now and has been throbbing for only a short while. I always noticed in the past that when the brakes got hot from spirited driving I'd hear a scrunching, and I am now thinking that it was probably those pads.

I did end up putting a small amount of CRC anti-squeel on because I'd already bought it (quite sparingly applied), though reading about pads that already come with anti-squeeling shims built right into them it seems to make some sense that this stuff may have been unecessary. I applied it so minimally that at worse case it was a waste of $3.

In regards to rotors I ended up turning them. BTW they came off VERY easily. I hammered them loosely. The first took 6 reasonble hits, and the second took two. There was not that much rust behind. I still used break cleaner to remove what I could, and I didn't bother applying any anti-seize at all, because down in the south and considering that they'd not had any on there before I have no doubt that the rotors will pop off next time too. I was getting differing opinions on it not just here but on google searches. It seems about 1/3-1/2 of people say not to bother. Others say that there is no problem. The consensus seems to point to the fact that the rotors will not last as long. However, there is a lot of metal left on mine, and since replacement rotors cost a minimum of $50/each shipped (vs $15 for turning), then the debate lends a little more credence to turning (whereas if rotors were $25/piece, it's a no brainer to buy new). Another reason I turned them is that if the OEM pads were in great part responsible for my braking issues it's entirely possible that the new pads will not affect the rotors in the same way.

Total parts were: $30 for rotors and $34 for pads. Grand total: $64 in parts. If I'd have bought new rotors it would have been $100 plus pads (raning from $34 to $70). Another reason I turned is that with all of the conflicting info on the net I figured I'd try my luck at it. If the rotors warp in 10k miles I'll be satisfied at getting 10k but also learning that yes indeed turning may not be a good idea. However, if they last a good bit longer I'll be pleased with that too, and learn something from it

Thanks for everyone's help! :heart:

 

[Ornery]

Not to mention how much you saved by doing it yourself! Thanks for all the time spent on the update.

 

[Quixfire]

Thanks for the nice update, it refreshing to hear how our advise influenced the repair.

 

BAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks for the good laugh, hehehehehehe.

I love the wannabe mechanic's writings

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: se7enty7

Originally posted by: CFster
With the anti squeal shims installed the goop is redundant.

It can also cause the pad to sit unevenly in the anchor and against the caliper.

It's an outdated method, and cars don't come with it from the factory for a reason.

New, quality pads are sold with shims and anti-rattle clips and that's all that is necessary. You'll notice that there's no tube of goop in the box anymore. And if there is, then it's a substandard set of pads - most likely for a domestic car too.

se7enty7, you're an idiot poser who's been blabbing nonsense since the start of this thread.

Did I actually see you tell the guy to put a dab of anti-squeal on the pad, THEN put the shim on, then some more anti-squeal? You DO realize that the shims have adhesive backs don't you? So putting the compound between the shim and the pad will cause it to move around causing even more noise right? Oh, and also most new quality pads come with them already installed - what are you going to do, PEAL them off, then put them back on again?

Also, your suggestion to turn the rotors (even though they weren't warped) if the guy was just changing pads was just plain wrong. Utter and complete waste of money. Another outdated way of doing brakes. Most of the manufacturers have TSBs now stating that rotors shouldn't be turned unless they're SEVERELY scored. The new pads will wear into the grooves instantly. The new composite rotors are just too flimsy - they would rather you replace them if needed.

Get a clue.

And what's your claim to fame, and are you ASE certified?

If he's using OEM NISSAN pads they WON'T come with shims. PER Nissan's FSM you are supposed to put anti squeel on the pad, then place the shim, then on the back of the shim where it mates with the caliper and where it mates with the piston.



Gee... I guess nissan's wrong thing right? :roll:


I also don't believe for one second your ASE certified. You really are blowing wasteless chunks of mis-information out about all of this.

Nope, Nissan's right - whatever book you're reading is wrong. Actually, I don't think you're using a book - I think you're making it up as you go along.

Feel free to check it on AllData. You'll have to buy an account, but I use a professional login. AllData uses scans out of the factory service manuals. So, either pay a fortune for a "factory" service manual, or the $24.95 subscription per vehicle for a year. Otherwise, you can shove your Chiltons or whatever you have up your ass. And yes, Nissan pads come with shims, already installed - with glue.

Oh, and you're an idiot.

And I don't care if you don't believe I'm ASE certified. Frankly the brake test was easy. Any hotshot out of trade school can pass it easily (and still not know a thing). I judge my experience based on 18years in the industry and my position as service manager at a fleet wholesale auction that services and sells thousands of Nissans yearly.

And so you prove how little knowledge you have. FSM's aren't all *that* expensive. I paid $60 for mine. I will post pics when I get home of the procedure involved.