New record numbers for Obama on the economy

[Ausm]

The teahadist strawman machine is busy cranking out bullshit already and it's not even November year, still more than a year out... the fear and desperation is palpable and delicious.

Don't worry Faux Noise will be working OT on the spin machine!

 

[Jhhnn]

IDK. Your article mentions 80 bills but provides little info.

Otherwise, I rarely listen to politicians. I watch editorial shows like Hardball with Chris Matthews, but lately they focus mostly on bashing Tea Partiers or Michelle Bachmann etc. Not much regarding policies seems to be discussed.

Bill Clinton put out some suggestions for improving the economy/employment recently, some I thought were good ideas. Yet I have heard exactly zero discussion on those suggestions by anyone.

When I do hear anything about improving the economic situation, most seem to say the Fed/Treas have no real tools left in the bag to do anything.

While I do think Obama is in way over his head, and I remain unimpressed with Geithner, I have no real hope that the other side will come up with anything I agree on economic improvement with either.

Fern

I think you're right about the FRB, wrong about the Treasury. Treasury is inhibited by the enormous debt overhang left by Repub Admins over the last 30 years, and by refusal of Repubs to raise taxes at the top to allow the govt greater freedom to spend & create jobs outside of the normal banking system.

It should be perfectly clear that the much vaunted Job Creators! aren't, and have little to no intention of creating jobs in the near future. We've entered a classic liquidity trap, and that's something that won't cure itself except over decades. We can't cut spending to get out of that, or save our way out, either. Govt needs to step in, and if they need to raise taxes to do so, then do so.

Those 80 bills from the House GOP? If they had any substance, any meaning beyond posturing and pandering to the base, people would be talking about them, but they're not. To say more would be to belabor the point.

We've arrived at this point wrt the economy as a direct result of the false easy money prosperity of the Bush years, the flimflam of the ownership society & unpaid for wars of adventure. The rich got richer & the rest of us got deeper in debt, either personally or at the level of govt.

Those are the elements that drove the bush era economy, make no mistake-

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/12/o...l=1&adxnnlx=1313878894-cUu/HT6AIyctv5WzZkhW+g

And these are the results of that policy, an still unfolding disaster that rightfully rivals the Great Depression-

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...ould-set-off-a-housing-price-avalanche-2010-9

If Obama's handling of the economy isn't what it could be, it's only in the sense that he hasn't called for more New Deal type initiatives, and has rather chosen to attempt to work with the perps to modify their behavior. The only way that repubs will get out of the way is to be beaten into a state of reasonableness, and Obama hasn't even tried.

 

[Ausm]

I think you're right about the FRB, wrong about the Treasury. Treasury is inhibited by the enormous debt overhang left by Repub Admins over the last 30 years, and by refusal of Repubs to raise taxes at the top to allow the govt greater freedom to spend & create jobs outside of the normal banking system.

It should be perfectly clear that the much vaunted Job Creators! aren't, and have little to no intention of creating jobs in the near future. We've entered a classic liquidity trap, and that's something that won't cure itself except over decades. We can't cut spending to get out of that, or save our way out, either. Govt needs to step in, and if they need to raise taxes to do so, then do so.

Those 80 bills from the House GOP? If they had any substance, any meaning beyond posturing and pandering to the base, people would be talking about them, but they're not. To say more would be to belabor the point.

We've arrived at this point wrt the economy as a direct result of the false easy money prosperity of the Bush years, the flimflam of the ownership society & unpaid for wars of adventure. The rich got richer & the rest of us got deeper in debt, either personally or at the level of govt.

Those are the elements that drove the bush era economy, make no mistake-

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/12/o...l=1&adxnnlx=1313878894-cUu/HT6AIyctv5WzZkhW+g

And these are the results of that policy, an still unfolding disaster that rightfully rivals the Great Depression-

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...ould-set-off-a-housing-price-avalanche-2010-9

If Obama's handling of the economy isn't what it could be, it's only in the sense that he hasn't called for more New Deal type initiatives, and has rather chosen to attempt to work with the perps to modify their behavior. The only way that repubs will get out of the way is to be beaten into a state of reasonableness, and Obama hasn't even tried.

Yeah it really pisses me off when President Obama embraces their ideology then when it backfires...i.e tax cuts instead a MUCH larger stimulus they beat him relentlessly like a rented mule...those pricks have NO shame.

 

[Fern]

Jhhnn

What are some things you'd like to see Washington do to get the economy going?

I give you a couple/few of mine:

1. Use the existing SBA to get more money to smaller businesses. A guaranteed loan program, that means it is not exactly cost to the govt and a debt bloater like a stimulus w/b. Sure there will be some costs due to failure to repay but should not be really significant with decent guidelines. Clinton had a suggestion along this line as well.

2. Drill, mofo drill. Except we charge decent royalties along the lines of other countries. Crap load of money into the US treasury and jobs created. Should also scare the speculators and drop oil/gas prices further helping the economy. Yep, I know the Progressive/Libs/Dems would hate this idea.

3. I'd be inclined to set up a long term infrastructure investment program. Not talking crap like paving, but building/improving highways, bridges, ports, bandwidth, electrical grid etc. There will be no quick big economic benefits, but there will be steady LT benefits and we're gonna have to do this anyway at some point.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Yeah it really pisses me off when President Obama embraces their ideology then when it backfires...i.e tax cuts instead a MUCH larger stimulus they beat him relentlessly like a rented mule...those pricks have NO shame.

Tax cuts?

Bah, much of it was just the typical extension of the AMT COLA adjustments. They've been doing it every years now for quite some time - both Dems and Repubs. The rest were handout to people, a 'spread the money around program' not too dissimilar to Bush's mailing out checks. Nothing more handing a piece of candy to sugar addict, a quick buzz then it's gone.

What Repub, or any politician for that matter, is beating on Obama for increasing the AMT exemption for inflation?

Otherwise, I don't remember any Repubs having input into the stim bill. That was all Pelosi IMO.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

The AMT was a horrible cobble job when enacted, and has become more so over the years. Just end it, alter the loopholes & deduction structures to implement it on the most affluent, actually raise more money.

Too easy, I'm sure.

That means me, too. Raise my taxes- just raise taxes on those who make a lot more by a lot more at the same time.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Well Republicans better keep doing all they can to tank the economy as they have been because if it improves by next election none of the Crazy Assholes they like will win.

lol, so now it's the republicans tanking the economy. I'm sure Obama's QE3 announcement next month (an you know it's coming) will solve everything, just like the last two.

Except for the part where Obama had a majority Dem Congress and Senate. Then it doesn't count in his mind or that of any hack lib that only 8+ months ago the Dem's were in control of everything.

 

[nick1985]

The teahadist strawman machine is busy cranking out bullshit already and it's not even November year, still more than a year out... the fear and desperation is palpable and delicious.

I wasn't aware Gallup was a "teahadist strawan machine".

 

[Fern]

The AMT was a horrible cobble job when enacted, and has become more so over the years. Just end it, alter the loopholes & deduction structures to implement it on the most affluent, actually raise more money.

Too easy, I'm sure.

That means me, too. Raise my taxes- just raise taxes on those who make a lot more by a lot more at the same time.

Well, that's basically what is does now. Takes away some deductions for the higher income types like state income taxes. It also closes some 'loopholes' (IMO an inaccurate use of the term, but whatever) like pulling Incentive Stock Options into tax when they would otherwise be nontaxable.

But I agree it's outdated. Back in the day, before Reagan eliminated them, we had all kinds of ridiculous deductions and such and that's what the AMT was designed for. Today it's sort of an awkward and perverted vehicle used for the purposes you suggested.

But no, it wouldn't be easy to fix it. I've been following tax bills for over 30 yrs, they're almost always thousands of pages with everything plus the kitchen sink thrown in. I'd estimate the chances of a clean, simple bill with an AMT tax fix at almost zero.

Fern

 

[Ausm]

Tax cuts?

Bah, much of it was just the typical extension of the AMT COLA adjustments. They've been doing it every years now for quite some time - both Dems and Repubs. The rest were handout to people, a 'spread the money around program' not too dissimilar to Bush's mailing out checks. Nothing more handing a piece of candy to sugar addict, a quick buzz then it's gone.

What Repub, or any politician for that matter, is beating on Obama for increasing the AMT exemption for inflation?

Otherwise, I don't remember any Repubs having input into the stim bill. That was all Pelosi IMO.

Fern

Sorry should have said tax incentives.

 

[umbrella39]

I wasn't aware Gallup was a "teahadist strawan machine".

The one cranking out tunes in spidey's head, not Gallup..

 

[trenchfoot]

Ain't it so ridiculous that the repubs under Bush literally shoveled the surplus out to the rich and ran up the deficit skyhigh to further line the pockets of the rich, all while driving the economy into the abyss.

And now that the rich repubs are sitting so pretty with all that excess loot to spend on corrupting our politicians even further, they're complaining about how Obama isn't fixing fast enough what took these profiteers eight years to wreck.

And even with a Senate and Admin controlled by the opposition, they're still getting their way AND they're not happy about that either.

WTF?

 

[IGBT]

doesn't matter. the obama is the Imperial President. He'll soon declare him self president for life.

 

[Jhhnn]

doesn't matter. the obama is the Imperial President. He'll soon declare him self president for life.

So you have nothing to say yet feel compelled to offer derision?

Why am I not surprised?

 

[nick1985]

Don't worry Faux Noise will be working OT on the spin machine!

What will MSNBC be working on?

 

[Jhhnn]

Don't worry Faux Noise will be working OT on the spin machine!

What will MSNBC be working on?

Oh, please. The interlocking propaganda machine of Faux News & the right wing think tanks is utterly unmatched in terms of reach & effectiveness.

If MSNBC can sell anything closer to the truth than halfway there from what Faux serves up, they'll be lucky, if they even have the inclination to make the attempt.

 

[Jhhnn]

Jhhnn

What are some things you'd like to see Washington do to get the economy going?

I give you a couple/few of mine:

1. Use the existing SBA to get more money to smaller businesses. A guaranteed loan program, that means it is not exactly cost to the govt and a debt bloater like a stimulus w/b. Sure there will be some costs due to failure to repay but should not be really significant with decent guidelines. Clinton had a suggestion along this line as well.

2. Drill, mofo drill. Except we charge decent royalties along the lines of other countries. Crap load of money into the US treasury and jobs created. Should also scare the speculators and drop oil/gas prices further helping the economy. Yep, I know the Progressive/Libs/Dems would hate this idea.

3. I'd be inclined to set up a long term infrastructure investment program. Not talking crap like paving, but building/improving highways, bridges, ports, bandwidth, electrical grid etc. There will be no quick big economic benefits, but there will be steady LT benefits and we're gonna have to do this anyway at some point.

Fern

1. Good.

2. Overblown & utterly short sighted. We're horrible oil junkies- better to save what we can than blow it out our tailpipes, put greater effort towards alternatives & weaning ourselves (at least partially) from the gawd almighty automobile. We need much greater spending on transit infrastructure.

3. Long term & short term projects are both desirable atm- whatever it takes to create jobs & income among the middle & working class. If we have to raise taxes at the top to pay for it, so be it. It's not like they're creating jobs, anyway.

During the Depression, the govt funded all kinds of things through the WPA- including art, architecture, music, conservation, reclamation, academic research- you name it. We can do the same today, if we so choose.