New odd problem in my haunted PC

[Craig234]

Is the new motherboard the exact same model? If it's a different model, even slightly, you might want to try a fresh Windows install.

It's exactly the same.

 

[Craig234]

Agreed. A fresh Windows install can do wonders.

There's quite an overhead to having to lose all my programs etc. Windows was reinstalled once during this problem and it didn't change. Quite a price just to see what happens.

 

[Craig234]

Seriously, how damn hard can it be for a high-quality motherboard with a high-quality video card on the most popular OS to have the card recognized? And to fix a problem?

 

[Craig234]

I'm starting to think about just buying a new SSD and installing the OS again (instead of dealing with backing up the data on the old one). I'm getting close to just replacing everything in the system just to watch the same problems continue, so that's next on the list.

 

[Campy]

This is a really weird problem, I would try a different PSU at this point. If I read the thread correctly you haven't done that yet, right?

 

[Craig234]

This is a really weird problem, I would try a different PSU at this point. If I read the thread correctly you haven't done that yet, right?

Right, but I just think that can't be it. The system would run for months no problem before and only hang on an OS update; now the graphics card is not recognized at all; that's not the PS.

 

[Campy]

Right, but I just think that can't be it. The system would run for months no problem before and only hang on an OS update; now the graphics card is not recognized at all; that's not the PS.

I don't really know the full history of your build or the problems you've had with it, so you have to read my replies in that context.

However, I believe you said that the system still runs fine without the GC right? The symptons you describe seem unlikely to be cpu/ram related, and given all you've done to rule out software issues, the obvious hardware issues(mobo, gpu), what changes when you add the graphics card? What stands out to me is power consumption, and a possibly degrading/slow-failing power supply.

If you really don't want to get a new PSU yet, I can think of a couple other things you can try first.

Remove the graphics card and stress the cpu with prime to see if it's stable at max load.

Run memtest to rule out anything memory-related.

Good luck, I hope you figure it out.

 

[Craig234]

I googled some more and someone solved this by restoring the BIO defaults - tried, it didn't work.

Then I saw a suggestion to run gpu-z to get more info. I have a screenshot if I figure out a way to post it.

But what was interesting is that while it showed the graphics adapter is Microsoft Basic, the 'subvendor' is Sapphire who does make the card, and there's a 'lookup' button that identified the card correctly as RX 480.

 

[Craig234]

I don't really know the full history of your build or the problems you've had with it, so you have to read my replies in that context.

However, I believe you said that the system still runs fine without the GC right? The symptons you describe seem unlikely to be cpu/ram related, and given all you've done to rule out software issues, the obvious hardware issues(mobo, gpu), what changes when you add the graphics card? What stands out to me is power consumption, and a possibly degrading/slow-failing power supply.

If you really don't want to get a new PSU yet, I can think of a couple other things you can try first.

Remove the graphics card and stress the cpu with prime to see if it's stable at max load.

Run memtest to rule out anything memory-related.

Good luck, I hope you figure it out.

Thanks. It's a long history, but basically, for months the only problem in the system was a hardware hang on two activities: installing OS updates, and touching the GPU driver.

Then I took the system to a shop for something and instead they screwed it up by not listening and powering it off while rolling back an OS update and destroying the OS so I had to reinstall.

After that, it would hardware hang just by having the card in the system soon after bootup but ran fine with the card removed.

I then replaced the card, no difference, and then yesterday had it rebuilt with a replacement motherboard. That's the basic history.

Something new is that it runs with the card in the system and connected to the monitor, but the system only sees the graphics adapter as 'Microsoft Basic' and trying to install the AMD driver gets a blue screen system crash. And now even a basic game I've run for months, partly runs ok but quickly doesn't, getting black screens and then crashing.

 

[Craig234]

Amazingly after all this time there might be a fix and it's not surprising. I'd been trying to use the AMD drivers and it was suggested trying getting them direct from Sapphire - and I did, and while it ran the same AMD program after installing its drivers, it seems to now be working.

 

[Craig234]

Just when I thought I hoped it was all fixed after the new MB, GPU and drivers. I'm adding here because I think the haunted PC is a good name.

It's bad enough that one game, Overwatch, regularly crashes. I might have ten rounds without a problem, but today for example was two crashes in four. Most often, it's an error 'device render stopped operating' or similar, that is said to be a known AMD graphic driver bug to be fixed, but sometimes it's other errors.

Discussing this on the web site, while some see the same thing, got a lot of replies about never crashing. So that one's already a bit suspicious.

But then tonight, just sitting at the PC (that's been on for days), the screen just went totally solid green (hung). First time that's happened.

What the hell. What is it going to take to get a stable system?

 

[UsandThem]

What the hell. What is it going to take to get a stable system?

At this point, probably an old priest and a young priest.

 

[Craig234]

Of course, a new behavior - it just shut down, except the fan kept running. Was in a (first tonight) world of tanks match at the time, so don't know if the stress of that triggered something.

 

[Craig234]

New year, new haunted problems.

When trying to diagnose earlier issues, I'd moved the graphics card from PCIE-2 to PCIE-4 just to see if it helped (it didn't).

From later poweroff issues, the motherboard maker seems to recommend the card go in PCE-2 and not PCIE-4 (despite that it works in PCIE-4), so I decided to put it back.

I just did, booted, and immediately after logging into Windows the PC got a blue screen error about 'device stuck in thread' (I've seen that before). Oh, great, now it won't even run.

Step 2: power cycle. This it it boots, and doesn't blue screen. OK, maybe it was a glitch. Fifteen seconds after logging in and teasing that it might work - I said it's haunted - same blue screen.

Step 3: power cycle. This time it gets the 'Windows repair' boot, and I pick restart (what else am I going to do, reinstall Windows and lose all my files, again?)

It boots, and runs but this time gets a Windows error about ATIADLXX.DLL in the Windows32 directory 'is not a Windows file'. I wait 30 seconds looking distrustingly at the screen. No blue screen. Hm. So I look up the error and it says something online about 'run a virus scan and check your audio device drivers' in a forum.

Well, why not run a virus scan. It finds one 'pop' type problem and fixes it. Meantime, my 'driver updater' utility alerted me two drivers were very out of date all of a sudden - something about an audio device and the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter (the same driver that was involved earlier when the system didn't recognize the graphics card). OK, this is weird. And that's saying something.

So I update the audio driver - done. Then I click to update the basic graphics driver - and during the update, same blue screen as before. What the hell.

Before, when the blue screen said it was getting information and would reboot, the reboot just left a black screen and I had to power cycle. This time, it did reboot.

Now it's been running 10-15 minutes and no problem yet. In fact I had better post this now before it blue screens and loses it.

So now it's not at all clear, again, what to do other than wait and see if it blue screens again. See if it gets the same DLL error when booting. And if it does, not clear what to do to fix it.

 

[Craig234]

OK. I just started Overwatch for a moment, and it looked odd, so I clicked to 'check display settings' and it says it's using the 'Microsoft Basic Display Adapter' Drivers, and makes no mention of ATI.

So for some reason on its own, putting the card back in PCIE-2 seems to have made the graphics driver totally unrecognized - though the card otherwise is working.

 

[Craig234]

Just ran the ATI driver detector to see what it would say, it identified the driver I have installed. It recommended I install the earler '.1' verson instead of the '.,2'; well, no, I installed the .2 to get a fix.

The only options it offered for .2 were to uninstall it - so Windows says nothing about that driver but ATI says it shows the driver installed. Maybe I should uninstall and reinstall it? Ugh.

 

[Craig234]

It makes me wonder if there's something about the PCIE-2 slot that's broken, despite it being the 'new' motherboard just installed, and despite it otherwise using the card, just with the wrong driver.

Probably not, but why this happened, how to fix it... uninstalling and reinstalling the driver, after I find the apparently not-yet-officially-recommended .2 again, after all the earlier problems, seems risky.

 

[mrblotto]

-wouldn't hurt to run memtest for an hour or 4
-take a look in around in the windows folder for *.dmp files. They can be analyzed using various apps to maybe see what is causing the BSOD's

To me, it sounds like HW. Is the mobo shorting out on the chassis?

 

[Craig234]

OK, I can run that, but don't expect much. Only one .dmp file found, from May 2017. HW? Though the system was only built in March, and the MB and GPU just replaced weeks ago.

It's been running an hour now with no issues, other than the ongoing GPU driver not being visible to the OS.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Craig, how long are you (and do we) have to put up with you using an obviously-flaky walking-wounded faulty-hardware PC? These issues that you're having, are not "just Windows".

At this point, I would replace the whole PC wholesale, and chalk it up to experience that your PC build didn't work, for whatever reasons, without assigning any blame.

Edit: Sorry, I just didn't mean that to be so insulting. I was more speaking from my experience on "builds gone bad", where the choice of budget component's didn't mesh well, especially the cheap "case PSU", which was apparently flaky from the get-go, and fried the cheap USB-connected card reader, and thus was blocking proper POST completion on that board until the card reader was unplugged.

At some point, rather than replace multiple components sequentially multiple times, you just take the whole thing, try to get it to work in at least a crippled state, and then get rid of it as-is, maybe get some $$$ back for it, if you can.

 

[Craig234]

Craig, how long are you (and do we) have to put up with you using an obviously-flaky walking-wounded faulty-hardware PC? These issues that you're having, are not "just Windows".

At this point, I would replace the whole PC wholesale, and chalk it up to experience that your PC build didn't work, for whatever reasons, without assigning any blame.

I find that awfully unhelpful and pretty inappropriate. These are all quality and costly components. If you're volunteering to provide the replacements for them, then you can suggest that. How long do you have to put up with questions about the problems? No longer - you can stop reading the posts now. And perhaps just to be safe, it would be best for you to reconsider any involvement with the forum.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm just saying, you've (seemingly obviously) got flaky hardware, even after replacing two main components (mobo and GPU - were they RMA'ed or re-purchased?). At this point, what's it down to? Either CPU, RAM, or your Windows install (or the storage drive).

I mean, if you moved the GPU to the other slot, then Windows should have detected that, and auto-magically re-installed drivers. At worst, if you manually re-install the (AMD) driver package, does it "take", and show something other than the MS Basic Display Adapter?

Edit: Have you tried fresh RAM, and a fresh drive, with a new fresh (test) install of Windows?

 

[Ketchup]

Why aren't you putting the video card back in the other pci-e slot that seems to work? If the card is identified correctly in that slot, who cares if "someone" told you not to. Some boards only run 8x in that slot, which honestly won't make a bit of difference in its actual performance.

 

[Craig234]

I'm just saying, you've (seemingly obviously) got flaky hardware, even after replacing two main components (mobo and GPU - were they RMA'ed or re-purchased?). At this point, what's it down to? Either CPU, RAM, or your Windows install (or the storage drive).

I mean, if you moved the GPU to the other slot, then Windows should have detected that, and auto-magically re-installed drivers. At worst, if you manually re-install the (AMD) driver package, does it "take", and show something other than the MS Basic Display Adapter?

I don't want to see something like the previous post again. On the topic - the US was re-installed in October also. On the driver, like I said, there was no option to re-install the driver - so I might need to uninstall the driver, and then try to re-install it, which seems a bit risky. I asked elsewhere what the best way to get the OS to recognize the driver instead of the 'Microsoft Basic Display Adapter' is.

If you think the idea of 'throw it all in the ocean' was a new suggestion you made, it's not. You might not recall I had some parts for years before finally building the PC. (MB and GPU were RMA'd).

But this stuff should be fixable. You say it's seemingly obvious the HW has a problem - yet why the instant blue screens, and now running 2-3 hours with none, if it's HW?

 

[Craig234]

Why aren't you putting the video card back in the other pci-e slot that seems to work? If the card is identified correctly in that slot, who cares if "someone" told you not to. Some boards only run 8x in that slot, which honestly won't make a bit of difference in its actual performance.

It wasn't 'someone', it's the manual for the MB. Reasons include that it would just assume a 'new' RMA'd MB has a bad primary graphics slot, that a HW issue is somehow subtle enough that the card 'runs fine' for basic Windows but somehow prevents the OS recognizing the manufacturer driver, and introducing whatever problems might happen from the 'wrong slot' (like the odd intermittent poweroffs).