New car prices are out of control

[sze5003]

I'm not a BMW fan myself either. I legitimately don't understand why some people love them so much.

I know people who saved, and saved, and saved, to buy some used BMW that was basically a lemon in reliability. He was so happy with it. I just didn't get it.

They are fine if you get them semi new with low mileage. I have a friend who got a 2002 7 series at an auction. After a few months he had to dump so much Money in it, he still hasn't fixed it. You need to have good money when you buy these cars with lots of mileage, I dont get it either. Everyone I know who has one that is not 2-3 years old has issues with one. The same can be said for VW.

I think Mercedes is more reliable. Just from what I've seen though, the old models last and don't break down as badly it's more of an issue with the electronics.

 

[hans007]

well for one thing cars last longer now.

inflation adjusted i dont think they are absurdly expensive. i mean, most car's are bigger than the equivalent nameplate was years ago as well.

like i had a 2001 altima, a 2013 altima is way way way bigger a car and inflation adjusted probably barely costs more.


in 2000 a bmw 3 series was not a very big car. inflation adjusted the price of the 2013 3 series is about right. but the new 3 is the same size as a 2000 5 series.


i suppose at this point well if you have no money given how cars are so reliable used cars are probably much more easy to live with. and if you are still complaining about how expensive cars are given they are much more advanced, well figure out how to make more money i guess.

i guess it all depends on your priorities. i have a ton of friends who dont see any value at all in owning a piece of real estate. its just another casino to gamble your money on and well an apartment can always be the right size and is flexible. i like living in apartments, i dont have to be responsible for it, and given i live in LA the property tax alone here on a 1 bedroom condo near where i live is probably 1/4 of my rent a year. (1 bedroom condo, culver city... something like $550k) so economically its definitely not a no brainer.

i spend $1300 a month on my apartment and i drive a $40k car. i guess that might be ridiculous, but i've seen much worse. i have a friend who lives at home who is about to buy a 3 year old 911.

 

[hans007]

I'm not a BMW fan myself either. I legitimately don't understand why some people love them so much.

I know people who saved, and saved, and saved, to buy some used BMW that was basically a lemon in reliability. He was so happy with it. I just didn't get it.

theres lemons of every make , maybe some more than others. i can't say i know anyone with a bmw that was lemon level bad.

my audi was kind of bad. i've had friends lemon a mini. imean consumer reports actually lists the 3 series as one of the most reliable cars you can buy. and they drive great...

hell the cars arent even that expensive now. a 320i msrp is only $7k or so more than an i-4 accord EX automatic. and it comes with free maintenance. over 4 years at 50% residual, thats only $3000 if you think brakes + maintenance is $1000.

 

[Fritzo]

theres lemons of every make , maybe some more than others. i can't say i know anyone with a bmw that was lemon level bad.

my audi was kind of bad. i've had friends lemon a mini. imean consumer reports actually lists the 3 series as one of the most reliable cars you can buy. and they drive great...

hell the cars arent even that expensive now. a 320i msrp is only $7k or so more than an i-4 accord EX automatic. and it comes with free maintenance. over 4 years at 50% residual, thats only $3000 if you think brakes + maintenance is $1000.

Yeah, BWM's are built to be driving machines, and you get your money's worth (at least starting with the 2002 or so models). Unlike a company like GM or Chrysler, you won't see things like crappy plastics, undersized brakes, ill-fitting panels and molding, or terrible tires on any BWM model. You pay for this quality, but BMW basically says "If we're not going to build it right, we're not going to bother).

Audi used to be the same mindset, but they have VW penny-pinchers directing their actions so you end up with mixed results. Audi's recent models have been excellent however.

 

[ponyo]

Yeah, BWM's are built to be driving machines, and you get your money's worth (at least starting with the 2002 or so models). Unlike a company like GM or Chrysler, you won't see things like crappy plastics, undersized brakes, ill-fitting panels and molding, or terrible tires on any BWM model. You pay for this quality, but BMW basically says "If we're not going to build it right, we're not going to bother).

Audi used to be the same mindset, but they have VW penny-pinchers directing their actions so you end up with mixed results. Audi's recent models have been excellent however.

All manufacturers use plastic. Some just use it little better than others or hide it well. BMW interiors on the low end models are nothing special and don't even have real leather. BMW do drive great but I attribute that to how they setup their suspension and alignment. Everything is a tradeoff. If you think BMW won't build something if it isn't right, I suggest you buy a BMW and find out how wrong you are for yourself.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Going on 10,000 miles on my car now. She'll be a year old in may.

Hard to believe that I drove her off the lot with only 7 miles on her. They grow up so fast :')

I think I'll give her a bath today.

 

[Meractik]

You're paying premium for the technology in Apple devices. You can't get iOS on other devices other than Apple handhelds. Same with OS X on the computer. Well technically you can for computers with Hackintosh but it's hacked setup but you still need to buy OS X from Apple.

Overpriced, you shouldn't have to pay a premium for that. especially as much as they charge, making a profit is one thing their premiums are ridiculous from a consumer standpoint, its not worth the price.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Overpriced, you shouldn't have to pay a premium for that. especially as much as they charge, making a profit is one thing their premiums are ridiculous from a consumer standpoint, its not worth the price.

Yet people keep paying for it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Going on 10,000 miles on my car now. She'll be a year old in may.

Hard to believe that I drove her off the lot with only 7 miles on her. They grow up so fast :')

I think I'll give her a bath today.

Bath today, natural shower tomorrow 😛

 

[fleshconsumed]

Not sure why everyone is so hard on LegendKiller. He may be dismissive and maybe even a bit arrogant in how he voices his opinion. However, fact of the matter is, a car is a consumable resource. A very fast depreciating consumable at that. You use it for 10-15 years and then you throw it out, or if you're lucky, you sell it for 1/4th of what you bought it for. From investment standpoint it's better to buy a diamond, because as long as DeBeers monopoly stands, the diamond will retain its value a lot better than a car. Buying an expensive car is no different than buying $6 lattes. Both are consumables that you enjoy in the moment, but you have nothing to show after you're done with them. On the other hand, if you take the money you would have otherwise spent on a more expensive car and invested it, not only you would not lose any money over long term, but you'd be able to grow your stash. It's the same old adage, you ether have your money working for you, or you're working to make someone else rich.

In the end it all comes down to priorities. Nobody is stopping anyone from buying an expensive car, but people need to understand that they're trading future rewards for immediate gratification. And given how much more expensive "luxury" cars are and how fast they depreciate, those people are giving up a lot of future rewards for the "right now" moment. Financially speaking, it's a horrible deal. So once again, it's all about priorities, just how much that german 6 cylinder is worth it over early retirement, or traveling the world, or paying off your kids/grandkids college loans giving them a headstart in life, or just leaving them a nice inheritance after you die? And while people have said in the thread it's possible to do all of those, most likely there are still going to be tradeoffs, perhaps you would only be able to afford half of the kids college tuition instead of paying it off in full, or perhaps you wouldn't be able to leave anything for your grandkids. Personally, I'm OK with not spending every single cent on myself before I die, I would rather improve my chances of secure retirement than risk running short and have to rely on my children for financial help setting them back. And if I overestimate and "save" too much, i.e. not spend as much as I could have during my life time, I'd be OK with it too, because my money wouldn't be lost, they would be spent on my future generations giving them a head start in life. To me, that's money well spent.

 

[rh71]

wow this thread is still going.

Find me a person who is actually into cars and doesn't buy a nice one when given the opportunity.

If you are a naysayer, you're not into cars. And that's fine. A hobby or passion is just that and that's what we live life for. What more is there to it? Why is there so much judgment?

 

[rh71]

Oh and this is about right...

Listen man, I think you need to take a step back and take a deep breath. The reason people are jumping to the conclusion that you're just a "jealous poor person" is because your attitude is typical of those people. Listen, I don't drive a BMW but I acknowledge the fact that they are nice cars. Reliable? No, not really. Do they drive great? Yes, yes they do. Are there people that drive them that try to pretend they are something they aren't (wannabes)? Yes. Are there some people that just love BMW's because they like the car? Yes.

My point is, I think you are taking your frustrations out on a car brand because of some douche you ran into in the past that owned a BMW.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Not sure why everyone is so hard on LegendKiller. He may be dismissive and maybe even a bit arrogant in how he voices his opinion. However, fact of the matter is, a car is a consumable resource. A very fast depreciating consumable at that. You use it for 10-15 years and then you throw it out, or if you're lucky, you sell it for 1/4th of what you bought it for. From investment standpoint it's better to buy a diamond, because as long as DeBeers monopoly stands, the diamond will retain its value a lot better than a car. Buying an expensive car is no different than buying $6 lattes. Both are consumables that you enjoy in the moment, but you have nothing to show after you're done with them. On the other hand, if you take the money you would have otherwise spent on a more expensive car and invested it, not only you would not lose any money over long term, but you'd be able to grow your stash. It's the same old adage, you ether have your money working for you, or you're working to make someone else rich.

In the end it all comes down to priorities. Nobody is stopping anyone from buying an expensive car, but people need to understand that they're trading future rewards for immediate gratification. And given how much more expensive "luxury" cars are and how fast they depreciate, those people are giving up a lot of future rewards for the "right now" moment. Financially speaking, it's a horrible deal. So once again, it's all about priorities, just how much that german 6 cylinder is worth it over early retirement, or traveling the world, or paying off your kids/grandkids college loans giving them a headstart in life, or just leaving them a nice inheritance after you die? And while people have said in the thread it's possible to do all of those, most likely there are still going to be tradeoffs, perhaps you would only be able to afford half of the kids college tuition instead of paying it off in full, or perhaps you wouldn't be able to leave anything for your grandkids. Personally, I'm OK with not spending every single cent on myself before I die, I would rather improve my chances of secure retirement than risk running short and have to rely on my children for financial help setting them back. And if I overestimate and "save" too much, i.e. not spend as much as I could have during my life time, I'd be OK with it too, because my money wouldn't be lost, they would be spent on my future generations giving them a head start in life. To me, that's money well spent.

Or you can work your ass off and get a career that allows you to do all of that.


What a thought.

 

[Exterous]

Or you can work your ass off and get a career that allows you to do all of that.


What a thought.

Regardless of your career choice you give up potential future value when you buy a consumable. You quibbling at his examples does not change this and I think misses the point. The income (career) and car choice merely changes the percents involved in lost future value.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

So, let's spend our discretionary income on a car, right?

If you ask some people, "list the top 50 most things that are most enjoyable in life," I personally find it pathetic if "driving my car to work" is put on that list. But, to each their own. It's just my opinion, and everyone has their own opinion, that if "driving my car" registers on your list of enjoyable experiences, you're doing that whole life thing wrong.

Sad to be you to have such a shitty car experience every time you go for a drive.

I actually enjoy my time in my car.

 

[Fritzo]

All manufacturers use plastic. Some just use it little better than others or hide it well. BMW interiors on the low end models are nothing special and don't even have real leather. BMW do drive great but I attribute that to how they setup their suspension and alignment. Everything is a tradeoff. If you think BMW won't build something if it isn't right, I suggest you buy a BMW and find out how wrong you are for yourself.

Crappy plastics are the ones that have "flashing" on the edges, don't fit well together, scratch easily, and bend when you press on them. These are the quality of plastics you see in a lot of GM and Chrysler vehicles (Ford actually increased their quality in the last few years). Higher-end manufacturers use a higher grade rubberized plastic that looks and wears much better. My cheap Scion xA even has this type of plastic---and it's now 7 years old without a single squeak or rattle.

Fake leather is actually better than real leather in a lot of situations, so I can see that. Real leather requires a lot of care, and if it's being used on contact points (steering wheel for instance) you'll get a lot of breakdown and discoloration. Same deal with real wood. You need to strike a balance between looking good and durability.

 

[PricklyPete]

No, I am just "poor" and jealous about people who buy overpriced unrealiable trash and go around calling me poor as they try to impress doctors.

Who is more insecure, the one who uses a car to impress doctors or says that only "poor people" rip on their car choices - or the person who points out that trying to impress people with cars or that objective people know that cars like a BMW are really not that great?

Keep in mind, I've never even said what I could afford.

I doubt you are poor, but you are a seriously insecure person as you have demonstrated with your need to belittle others who you feel spend money unwisely. Same with the OP. Your prudence with money in no way makes you a better person. Stop judging others and get over yourself.

 

[purbeast0]

Regardless of your career choice you give up potential future value when you buy a consumable. You quibbling at his examples does not change this and I think misses the point. The income (career) and car choice merely changes the percents involved in lost future value.

i will never understand this mindset.

so basically, no matter how much money you make, there is always something "better" you could have done with the money spent on something you want to enjoy right now.

 

[SSSnail]

Regardless of your career choice you give up potential future value when you buy a consumable. You quibbling at his examples does not change this and I think misses the point. The income (career) and car choice merely changes the percents involved in lost future value.

What if you can balance between future value and now? What if you can afford both comfortably and cando it better than most? What if there's no tomorrow? One person's needs and circumstances shouldn't be used to dictate the norm.

 

[waggy]

theres lemons of every make , maybe some more than others. i can't say i know anyone with a bmw that was lemon level bad.

my audi was kind of bad. i've had friends lemon a mini. imean consumer reports actually lists the 3 series as one of the most reliable cars you can buy. and they drive great...
.

yeah BMW lemons do happen. a buddy of mine purchased a new BMW in 03. he had major issues with it the 3 years he had it (most covered by warentee though). it was one of the lower models.


I don't see why people get into such a hissy fit over what others drive. To me a car is something to get from A to B. BUT i won't drive a shitty vehicle. while i always buy used (1-3 yr old vehicles) i don't buy the bottom barrel shit.

but i understand why some do. My parents are a great example. they have a lot of money (step mom inherited several million a few years ago and my dad had tons from owning a few car lots). My dad while he can afford anything buys used too (could be where i get it) but he likes vans/trucks. my step mom buys new and buys very nice cars (around 35-50k) though last new car she got was the new Taurus fully loaded. it's a pretty nice car. though she is thinking of trading it in.

buy what you like. fuck anyone that has a problem with it. anyone that judges you based on what you drive is a idiot.


for the record i know many very rich people and they drive anything from beaters to high end cars. nobody cares.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Regardless of your career choice you give up potential future value when you buy a consumable. You quibbling at his examples does not change this and I think misses the point. The income (career) and car choice merely changes the percents involved in lost future value.

That's not the point if you enjoy driving a nicer vehicle.

The same could be said about many things that the majority of the population purchases.

 

[waggy]

i will never understand this mindset.

so basically, no matter how much money you make, there is always something "better" you could have done with the money spent on something you want to enjoy right now.

yeah duh.

if you aren't using the money to enjoy life what is the point of working so hard?

different people have different ideas on what they enjoy. live and let live.

 

[Aikouka]

I don't think new car prices are that bad. There are plenty of cheaper brands and lower models to consider if you're looking for a low-priced vehicle. Are new cars a poor investment? Sure, but I don't know who in the world buys a run-of-the-mill new car and expects it to actually appreciate in value. (Note that I used "run-of-the-mill" to differentiate from special editions, limited runs, etc.)

 

[Exterous]

i will never understand this mindset.

so basically, no matter how much money you make, there is always something "better" you could have done with the money spent on something you want to enjoy right now.

Your words not mine. I never said better. Ever. All I tried to point out is that buying a consumable will decrease your future value. No 'better or worse' no 'right or wrong' just that it will. Some people say just work hard enough or get a job that pays enough. Regardless of these items you WILL lose future value. In their opinion it shrinks to an insignificant value but it is still there

What if you can balance between future value and now? What if you can afford both comfortably and cando it better than most? What if there's no tomorrow? One person's needs and circumstances shouldn't be used to dictate the norm.

Who said anything about dictating? Did I say it was right or wrong? All I said was that buying a consumable now lessens your future value. This is true of food as well. Surely you don't think I would say that you should forgo food in order to have a larger future value?

That's not the point if you enjoy driving a nicer vehicle.

Your enjoyment of a consumable does not change its financial effect - only how you view that effect, as in 'is it worth it'

The same could be said about many things that the majority of the population purchases.

Obviously.

 

[JM Aggie08]

So if I'm never to enjoy my money in the present, when the hell am I supposed to use it?