New 3dmark03 patch - nVIDIA cheating ... again???

[spam]

Noid what video card are you running?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

/pulls up lawnchair
/opens bag of marshmellows

:music: Fanboys roasting on an open fire ... :music:

Keep the flames coming, the future of the world depends on a dozen 3DMark points, so make sure that you spend every ounce of brainpower you have on this!

BTW, before the fanboys try to attack me with "nVidiot" / "fanATIc" calls, wrap your minds around this one - Matrox.

- M4H

 

[Rage187]

"And you aren't taking it seriously enough."


LOL, my video card runs and looks great. It also works w/ EVERY game out.

So, should I really be freaking out about a synthetic benchmark that does not even perform like a true dx9 game would???

No.

So why do you?

 

[NYHoustonman]

The fact that NVidia would cheat disgusts me, as does the fact that people actually defend any company cheating to gain an edge on the competition, but hey, this isn't a perfect world...

In any case, my 3DMark03 score when down by 1 point.

 

[Blastman]

Nboy22 ?

If people don?t have a right to complain --- WHAT are you doing in this thread complaining? Ridiculous.

It?s an issue as long as Nvidia is still cheating.

Nothing really new. Nvidia updated their drivers with new cheats within 3 weeks of the last patch for 3Dmark2003. It will be interesting to see what Nvidia does this time.

 

[nboy22]

no. you see.. in my case, i'm talking about other discussions, and i'm pointing out that HE OWNS 2 ATI CARDS ON 2 OF HIS COMPUTERS, AND HE POSTS SOMETHING AGAINST NVIDIA, WHICH IS FANBOY-RELATED ACTIVITY. What's so hard to understand about that?? Can't get it throught your thick F%#&ING skull? HarHar, name has nothing to do with it, that's just another way for you out of it. I have a valid argument to a stupid event that i would like to not see any more cause it makes me sick every time someone posts about this kind of pointless S#%*. No, you see, never did i declare WHAT type of card i own.. never did i say i was against either company, my argument, is that people should stop posting this kinda crap, because it's pointless, what's the fun of arguing? can you not see that? are you that thick? I pull the fights out of threads.. that's where bad drivers come from, on different forums that i go to, there's always more arguments about this kind of stuff, and when will people learn that it is pointless. I've seen threads about ATI's bad drivers, and i've seen threads about all different arguments on video cards and such things that argue in this pointless way. THAT is my point.

 

[Rogodin2]

"I have a valid argument ."

For yourself regarding your purchase and this isn't what this is about.

The whole reason for nvidia to cheat in 3dmark2003 is because it is the benchmark that hold the most impact across all forms of advertising.

Their sole intent is to inflate scores (these score get published all over the world) so that joesixpack associates nvidia with superior benchmark numbers and buys Nvidia's card.

This has nothing to do with powerusers who know better-I run a small computer buisness and people almost always tell me they want an nvidia card because they've heard, or read that they are fast in "this 3dbenchmark2000 thingy."

And I have to explain what is going on and why the scores aren't valid.

It's just spurious buisness and it's something that really irks me as a small buisness owner (coffee house and computer shop).

I only wonder if 3dmark really caught and disabled all detection with the 340 build. When they introduced the 330 build it didn't catch everything.

Average computer users are getting shafted by nvidia and this is the problem-I won't give them my buisness and I refuse to build computers for clients with Nvidia's hardware for the time being.

rogo

 

[Rogodin2]

"The world is not perfect. Get over it. "

Nvidia will get nailed one of these days-corporate law can be a real biitch-just ask the ceos of the two major trading companies in mutual funds.

SOme of you are so completely pathetic that I just can't believe what I'm reading.

You'd go take your burger back if MCdonalds jipped you out of your double quarter pounder by only putting one patty on it but nvidia can reap the millions by fleecing customers and you TRY TO VALIDATE THEIR ACTIONS!??

It's just sad.

rogo

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: spam
Hello Insomniak,

You are sheltering yourself from reality or "the real world" as you put it. When reality and accountability are " 'mumbo jumbo" Then you imply that you are not accountable and your life is not based upon reality. Any discussion with you is meaningless....... There are no grounds for common understanding or discourse.

No, I imply nothing - you assume too much, and you are attempting to make it seem as though I said things that I did not. I am accountable for my actions. Nvidia is not. Do you know why? Because they can get away with driver cheats. They have the financial wherewithal, the gauranteed sales base, and the presence in many different markets to pull it off.

How many people do you think returned their Nvidia cards after reading this? How many that were planning on buying an NV card before they read this aren't now? Not enough to dent Nvidia's sales and profits, that's for sure.

Nividia is a huge global corporation, and they are the ones who bought and paid for this country a LONG time before any of us was born. You say accountability is a staple, but where does it start? The government is not accountable, they are spending billions of dollars they don't have. Large businesses are not accountable - they commit crimes and get away with them all the time. Look at Enron and it's ilk. The CEOs are all still rich and free men.

No sir, the only people who are accountable and can be punished for their actions are the LITTLE GUY, us, the singular citizens that the law can make an example out of. If you don't want to believe this, that's your perogative, but it's also your ignorance, and your problem, not mine.

Originally posted by: spam

Look at the inconsistency of your remarks- what you apply to others does not apply to your self. -You started an estistentialist discussion yet you are unwilling to defend your premise or be held accountable for your inconsistencies, - Oh yeah you said accountability was "mumbo jumbo" isn't that convienient!

Furthermore you do care about reality , otherwise why would you be posting on these threads at all?

Oh I'm in here discussin, but I'm not defending anything. YOU are putting words in my mouth. Accountability for large corporations IS mumbo jumbo. Again, deny it if you will, but it's your mistake, not mine. And what I apply to large corporations indeed does NOT apply to me. You know why? Because I'm not a large corporation. Go figure.

Where did this reality discussion come from? Humans aren't capable of comprehending reality, let alone discussing it. Please, stop attempting to fake profound thoughts and move on. I have better things to do than explain to your misguided self why your pseudo-ideals of "accountability" will just make trouble for you in this world.

You're not making any points, you're talking in circles. Do yourself a favor and bow out now while you can do so with some kind of credibility. If you think accountability and honesty apply to large corporate interests in America today, you're ignorant and that's just plain fact. I consider this discussion closed. Good day.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: zulfi

The world is too dangerous to live in, not because of the people who do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen - Albert Einstein

Ok Deepak Chopra, when you're out there fighting crime, tracking down corporate criminals, toppling evil dictators, and feeding all the starving people in Africa, call me. I'll be the first to join your superhero team.

This is what I love - people spouting rhetoric like this. You have a PC, which is technically not a neccesity to stay alive. Therefore, by buying that PC and not donating the money to feed starving Croatian children instead, YOU ARE sitting by and letting evil occur. Same as when you buy a car. Same as when you buy brand name clothing instead of sewing your own.

I buy PCs. I bought a car. I buy brand name clothing. I'm just like you. Toting around quotes by great minds may make some of you feel righteous and good, but the bottom line is that you're not putting your money where your mouth is. You're every bit as "bad" as the rest of us.

Come back when that quote's not riddled with hypocrisy. I'll be glad to hear what you have to say.

The world is divided, people - some folks live better lives than others. We are among the better lives and we are not willing to give up our luxuries so others can survive. It's that simple.

When Einstein isn't talking about YOU as well as me, then we can talk. Until then, enjoy your swank American lifestyle 😉

 

[Rogodin2]

"Humans aren't capable of comprehending reality, let alone discussing it."

I suppose all of philosophy from the presocratics (who actually thought about and propounded theories about the "material" of the world) to the post moderns were not really doing anything besides farting on their camel hair matresses and silk sheets.

jeez

 

[Rogodin2]

"Evil" can be very small-it doesn't necessitate eliminating world terrorists or becoming an anchorite (einstein didn't do this either) the 'antidote" it can consist of making a small gesture or caring about ONE person in a seaminly inconsequential manner or action.

I just love it how armchair philosophers (amateurs) like to take life to the extreme when even the greatest minds in all of human thought bring life down to it's "everydayness".

Husserl, but you'll have to look it up.

rogo

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
"Humans aren't capable of comprehending reality, let alone discussing it."

I suppose all of philosophy from the presocratics (who actually thought about and propounded theories about the "material" of the world) to the post moderns were not really doing anything besides farting on their camel hair matresses and silk sheets.

jeez

Philosophy is the search for truth. That's pretty irrelevant here.

We cannot comprehend the entire electromagnetic spectrum. We cannot comprehend magnetism or gravity. We cannot comprehend the size of the universe. We do not know how reality began, or how it will end.

There are thousands upon thousands of things we do not know about our existence. The only reason we know of things like Magnestism, the EM spectrum, etc. is because they have been translated into sensoryu perceptions we can understand - for example, liquid crystal displays that provie infrared imaging, and of course, two magnets of opposite charge exert force, which we can sense.

Philosophy is GUESSING about the state of reality, but we cannot fully comprehend it. Thus, we cannot have a complete discussion of it. We can discuss certain portions of it (which we do daily, and are in fact doing via these forum posts) but we CANNOT discuss reality as a whole - we still don't know what it is.

 

[nboy22]

blastman, i see your thick as well, i'm telling you guys, it's really ridiculous to post stupid stuff like this ATI vs. NVIDIA or NVIDIA vs. ATI (FANBOYISM) crap because it is truly, worthless, and it solves NOTHING, TELL ME WHAT IT'S SOLVED please oh please, i'm not saying you don't have a right to complain, but if you don't even own the damn card, why complain.... and if you own fricken ATI cards (such as the dude that made this thread), it's obvious a stake out against nvidia, which you should go make your own forum to polute instead of something like anandtech. the dude who posted this has fricken 2 ATI cards and posts something against nvidia, hello? you get that? i'm telling you people, these threads solve nothing, and i'm sure you can't name anything that it has solved.. it's just fanboyism, you CANNOT deny it, why would it even matter to bring something up if you even thought about the consequences it was going to cause. it's plain and simple, i don't really care about who it is with, cause as far as i'm concerned the card companies are equal, ATI vs. NVIDIA, NVIDIA vs. ATI, i don't care.. it's pointless, solves nothing, and worthless..
-----Quote------
If people don?t have a right to complain --- WHAT are you doing in this thread complaining? Ridiculous.
-------END------

lol, did i say it's stupid to complain about actual things that are not ATI vs. NVIDIA? or NVIDIA vs. ATI?? no.. i did not, that is your perception of what i said. and I never stated such a thing.. you can complain about other things, just not ridiculous things such as this discussion (ATI vs. NVIDIA, NVIDIA vs. ATI if you need some help).
i'm saying, if you can please get it throught your head, that this is a bunch of ridiculous crap, it shouldn't even be posted here, it's worthless, and solves nothing.. it's not to hard to recognize and analyze that is it?

 

[Rogodin2]

Cosmology and the four elements big fella, I'd have thought you'd have followed the split into science, but it was too much, sorry.


rogo

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
"Evil" can be very small-it doesn't necessitate eliminating world terrorists or becoming an anchorite (einstein didn't do this either) the 'antidote" it can consist of making a small gesture or caring about ONE person in a seaminly inconsequential manner or action.

I just love it how armchair philosophers (amateurs) like to take life to the extreme when even the greatest minds in all of human thought bring life down to it's "everydayness".

Husserl, but you'll have to look it up.

rogo

This is, frankly, codswallop. This is the type of stuff people tell themselves to feel better about their situations. It's really rather funny.

As for Evil, yes, it can be defined in a number of ways, but that's beside the point. The point is EVERY person in this forum and on this planet has at one point or another allowed something they would define as "evil" to happen. Therefore applying that statement as if it puts me in my place is a rather comical move - he is simultaneously "owning" himself.

And what other kind of philosopher is there besides armchair? Mr. Husserl appears to be placing his hobby on a pedestal that's far too high.

 

[Rogodin2]

"Philosophy is the search for truth. That's pretty irrelevant here."

That is only part of the definition but since it's a tad correct I'll let it slide.

But you just stated your hypocracy. Everything in this world is a search for truth-including this inane thread.

What is justice?

rogo

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
Cosmology and the four elements big fella, I'd have thought you'd have followed the split into science, but it was too much, sorry.


rogo

Oh I'm familiar (although I wouldn't call myself an expert by any stretch) of the leading theories pertaining to the creation of our universe. But that's just my point - they're theories, and nothing more. They aren't proven....hell, gravity is still a theory. We can't speak with authority on reality, and that is that.

You're thinking too small, however. We can't be sure our universe is all there is to reality. Ever heard of the multiverse theory?

 

[Rogodin2]

"This is, frankly, codswallop. This is the type of stuff people tell themselves to feel better about their situations. It's really rather funny. "

So my prosition is invalid because it's "codswallop", and self-complacency (in your eyes)? That's one of the best counter propositions I've ever come across-you should enrole at Duke as a Philosophy graduate student!


jeez

REad this

William James-Pragmatism and the Meaning of Truth
Husserl-being and truth
Heidegger-Time and Being
Socratic (Plato) Dialogs-Euthedymus,The Republic
All of the existenialists
Hell the complete canon of philosophy and the bible

You need to do some reading boy.

rogo

 

[Rogodin2]

It's multiple world theory (universe is implied).

I was refering to the presocratics' cosmology and thought that you would follow the logical course to modern day science and all of its offshoots.

But you're making universal statements without any premises to support them, that's why I've called you out.

rogo

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
"Philosophy is the search for truth. That's pretty irrelevant here."

That is only part of the definition but since it's a tad correct I'll let it slide.

But you just stated your hypocracy. Everything in this world is a search for truth-including this inane thread.

What is justice?

rogo

It's the part of the definition that matters. If I wanted to be a pedantic nitpicker I could say philosophy is also a word in the common English vernacular, but that would just complicate things here.

And I did not state any hypocrisy (note spelling 😉 ) whatsoever. Everything in this world is not a search for truth. If it were, we would do nothing but philosophize all day long. While some of us do indeed perform this function, others of us have day jobs.

Joe Schmoe is not flipping burgers at McDonalds thinking truth is going to fly off the grill and hit him in the eye like some burger grease. He is thinking that the rent is two weeks late. Attempting to say that life is a search for truth is placing far too much importance on the biological process. It appears to be, although this is situational, another sad attempt by human beings to somehow validate their existence as something more than a freak occurence of nature.

Justice is subjective.

 

[Noid]

damn ... we gonna get into strong / string theory next ... ? Lmao

To Spam ...

9700pro ... here's my mark 5,637

Can we discuss the 11 dimensions now ... 😛

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
"This is, frankly, codswallop. This is the type of stuff people tell themselves to feel better about their situations. It's really rather funny. "

So my prosition is invalid because it's "codswallop", and self-complacency (in your eyes)? That's one of the best counter propositions I've ever come across-you should enrole at Duke as a Philosophy graduate student!

No thanks - I'd prefer to have a degree that can actually earn money. I guess that's a realist philosophy. And it's not "self-complancency in my eyes" - it IS self-complacency, and like I said, we all do it at one point or another. It is inevitable. Simply frowning upon such practices does not alleviate the hypocrisy of using it to describe another person's actions.

Originally posted by: Rogodin2

You need to do some reading boy.

rogo

No sir, what you need to do is stop letting pretentious blowhards who pass themselves off as professionals guide your philosophical arguments. Anyone can think - this does not make their opinions (which is all philosophy is really) more valid than anyone elses. It simply means that they have gotten a book deal, which means they've proven smart enough to dupe other folks into PAYING for what you and I are exchanging for free in these posts.

With all due respect to the authors you mentioned, thinking and speculation does not follow rules, and there are no rights and wrongs. Thought is freeform, and therefore cannot be governed by any set of rules such as philosophy commonly uses when proposing and countering arguments. Of course, forsaking these rules means one has, technically, drifted outside of philosophical exchange. But then, if "acutal" philosophical discourse proves too limited to support the kind of discussion we wish to have, so be it.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
It's multiple world theory (universe is implied).

I was refering to the presocratics' cosmology and thought that you would follow the logical course to modern day science and all of its offshoots.

But you're making universal statements without any premises to support them, that's why I've called you out.

rogo

I got the connection, but what's your point? Science hasn't explained and allowed for comprehension of everything either.

As for the Universal statements, the way I see it a statement is true as long as it is validated in one instance. These I would consider universal because they are validates in the majority of instances. Your mileage may, indeed, vary.

Now if you gents will excuse me, I have weightlifting to attend to. I'll see you on the morrow.

 

[NYHoustonman]

ooo lotsa big vocabulary methinks peeps need to admit that what NVidia and/or ATI has been doing is wrong and it doesn't matter whether or not 3DMark matters because all that matters is that NVidia is intentionally skewing things to get more buyers like the Apple G5 and that isn't a very nice thing to do but for some reason people find a need to defend it by either saying it doesn't matter cos everything looks the same or that 3DMark doesn't matter but the fact is without "cheats" it should be able to test raw GPU speed rather than ability of driver teams to cut corners, and to the average gamer 3DMark scores may mean alot more and here NVidia is essentially lying about the speed of their graphics cards to get profit which I guess makes sense but it's not a nice thing to do and steroids aren't allowed in baseball so you see the use of analogy here because that is giving an unfair advantage just like here and maybe if all cards were forced to render the same exact thing every time we would have a better judge of what is more powerful but because of all this 3DMark now means nothing just like alot of other benchmarks where there are potential cheats and if neither company used cheats everything would be better but the world isn't perfect but it should be and i guarantee theres philosphical meaning to all this


It's amazing how far this argument goes each and every time somebody brings up such a subject... Am I the only one who couldn't give a rat's ass about philosphy?