- Feb 27, 2003
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New 3dmark03 patch - nVIDIA cheating ... again???
- Thread starter Vonkhan
- Start date
Jeff7181
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2002
- 18,368
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and this is new because?
Next month its ATI's turn; I'll have to verifiy it on the "They cheat and my life is so boring that I care" Callendar
Next month its ATI's turn; I'll have to verifiy it on the "They cheat and my life is so boring that I care" Callendar
Run it twenty times and take a rounded average however...
Precisely why is it BS? Just because it's unlikely to get a score within 1 point of the previous test in your experience doesn't make that true. Ideally, it should ALWAYS give the same result within a certain margin of error. Whether this is the case or not is irrelevant. Just look at how much the 56.12 drivers lose when the 3DM03 333 patch is used (which supposedly disables the 'optimizations' that nVidia uses) vs the 330 patch.
Nvidia is guilty till proven innocent in my mind. How many cheats does that make this year for Nvidia? - 12 at least?
No surprise here, Nvidia does not have just hardware for sale. It has sold it's integrity and their souls for a few fps. What a mess!!
Who to believe...??? Nvidia or ATI? ATI or Nvidia? Hehe... How about neither of them!? It's like trying to figure out which politician is lying!
Originally posted by: Robor
Who to believe...??? Nvidia or ATI? ATI or Nvidia? Hehe... How about neither of them!? It's like trying to figure out which politician is lying!
And like a politician, you pick the lesser of the evils, and you try to rotate the pigs at the trough from time to time.
gg_melodramatic
You know what companies do? They make money. ATi has it's own batch of shady tactics just as Nvidia has theirs. The world is not perfect. Get over it.
Exactly.
By releasing a new patch that appears to negate the Det 52's 3DM03-specific optimizations, FM seems to have found a diplomatic solution to nV's cheating.
And it is cheating. FM sets the rules for its own app, and now they're finally enforcing it. You can choose to view 3DM03 as irrelevant and therefore ignore its results (much easier to do as more alternative DX9 benchmarks appear), but you can't deny the obvious fact that nV is doing things in 3DM03 that FM doesn't think they should be doing.
What'll be interesting is seeing FM's reaction if nV figures out another way of slipping in their cheats for the new 340 build of 3DM03. Will FM stand firm and not label the future Dets as approved, or will they approve them with another patch? Only time will tell....
Jeff, no doubt FM ran the tests multiple times and reported an average. If not, it's possible they chose those numbers to enforce the perception that 3DM03 is a very accurate and repeatable benchmark. Regardless, the differences with the new patch are not small enough that a few points either way matter. The difference is big and obvious.
And it is cheating. FM sets the rules for its own app, and now they're finally enforcing it. You can choose to view 3DM03 as irrelevant and therefore ignore its results (much easier to do as more alternative DX9 benchmarks appear), but you can't deny the obvious fact that nV is doing things in 3DM03 that FM doesn't think they should be doing.
What'll be interesting is seeing FM's reaction if nV figures out another way of slipping in their cheats for the new 340 build of 3DM03. Will FM stand firm and not label the future Dets as approved, or will they approve them with another patch? Only time will tell....
Jeff, no doubt FM ran the tests multiple times and reported an average. If not, it's possible they chose those numbers to enforce the perception that 3DM03 is a very accurate and repeatable benchmark. Regardless, the differences with the new patch are not small enough that a few points either way matter. The difference is big and obvious.
As I posted at Beyond3D:
Excuse me good sirs, but
-We had real world benchmarks in games allowing us to compare ATi and Nvidia performance in games.
-We had real world IQ comparisons at NUMEROUS reputable sites allowing us to compare ATi and Nvidia IQ.
-People could use this information to choose between the video cards and purchase what they wanted.
-No one had any complaints.
So, if Nvidia is running "non-standard" code (like that exists or something) in the background to achieve their results, WHO CARES? We know what we're getting when we buy, regardless of whether or not we truly know how we get it.
This is a pretty pointless thread in my opinion. 3Dmark is a pretty useless utility in my opinion. Wait for DX9 games, real DX9 performance tests using those games, and then make your decision. Sheesh. Who cares if they code their drivers differently?
Excuse me good sirs, but
-We had real world benchmarks in games allowing us to compare ATi and Nvidia performance in games.
-We had real world IQ comparisons at NUMEROUS reputable sites allowing us to compare ATi and Nvidia IQ.
-People could use this information to choose between the video cards and purchase what they wanted.
-No one had any complaints.
So, if Nvidia is running "non-standard" code (like that exists or something) in the background to achieve their results, WHO CARES? We know what we're getting when we buy, regardless of whether or not we truly know how we get it.
This is a pretty pointless thread in my opinion. 3Dmark is a pretty useless utility in my opinion. Wait for DX9 games, real DX9 performance tests using those games, and then make your decision. Sheesh. Who cares if they code their drivers differently?
I'm still looking for a link showing the new benchies of the 5950's w/ the 330's and 340's build.
until then....
until then....
Hello Insomniak,
You said
"gg_melodramatic
You know what companies do? They make money. ATi has it's own batch of shady tactics just as Nvidia has theirs. The world is not perfect. Get over it."
So honesty is not important to you? -Reality does not matter? Accountablity is not important? The world is imperfect - it is up to us to try and improve it. Are you always this cynical?
You said
"gg_melodramatic
You know what companies do? They make money. ATi has it's own batch of shady tactics just as Nvidia has theirs. The world is not perfect. Get over it."
So honesty is not important to you? -Reality does not matter? Accountablity is not important? The world is imperfect - it is up to us to try and improve it. Are you always this cynical?
From their website:
3DMark03 Patch (build 340) Improvements
Fixes & Updates:
Patch changes the program's build number to 340
Maximum point sprite size is now limited to 256x256 instead of the maximum supported by the hardware
Provides more detailed and accurate system information and improved detection of hyperthreaded CPUs
Incorporates new version of the Entech library (used to detect the clock frequency of the graphics chip core and memory)
Fixed all reported and reproduced minor issues
Important Notes:
3DMark03 (build 340) is currently the only supported version of 3DMark03. Users are not able to submit any results to the Online ResultBrowser with any of the older versions of 3DMark03.
3DMark03 (build 340) is available both as a patch (5.4MB) and as a full install (177MB).
The registration codes for 3DMark03 (build 313, build 320 and build 340) also work for 3DMark03 (build 340).
3DMark03 Patch (build 340) Improvements
Fixes & Updates:
Patch changes the program's build number to 340
Maximum point sprite size is now limited to 256x256 instead of the maximum supported by the hardware
Provides more detailed and accurate system information and improved detection of hyperthreaded CPUs
Incorporates new version of the Entech library (used to detect the clock frequency of the graphics chip core and memory)
Fixed all reported and reproduced minor issues
Important Notes:
3DMark03 (build 340) is currently the only supported version of 3DMark03. Users are not able to submit any results to the Online ResultBrowser with any of the older versions of 3DMark03.
3DMark03 (build 340) is available both as a patch (5.4MB) and as a full install (177MB).
The registration codes for 3DMark03 (build 313, build 320 and build 340) also work for 3DMark03 (build 340).
Yes, I'm always this cynical. It helps me to be always this right.
People talk about cynicism as if it isn't the truth. Oh well. Nice guys finish last.
As for reality, accountability - that's basically a bunch of mumbojumbo.
As for improving the world that's one of the most laughable ideas I've ever heard. "Improving" things for one person or persons will only piss off another group. Welcome to Chaos Theory 101.
Look, see my other post here, the one I dragged over from Beyond 3d. That's about the size of the situation. This whole thing has been a waste of time, and thus I wash my hands of it.
Hello Imsomniak,
You said,
-I am really sorry that you feel that way, that is a sad way to live- not live -exist.
You said,
-I am really sorry that you feel that way, that is a sad way to live- not live -exist.
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