Netherlands proposes banning gas, diesel car sales by 2025

[OutHouse]

I am an electrician, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. That said, the aging grid in the states is still superior to tanker trucks driving all over the place to replenish gas stations. If we could get the greentards out of the way and revamp the grid to bring in more nuclear generation and shut down coal plants, electrons might change your mind as the energy of the future.

The sticking point of course is storage, as petrol fuels have that locked down. Batteries are just not there to even make a logical comparison to the most primitive diesel storage tank, the petro-fuel is remarkably dense.

I am a broken record, but I still think electric has an advantage in that it's generation methods are much more diverse than petroleum ways. You could even charge your car by pedaling a bicycle. Of course, the 70 watt human output would take a long time to recoup a drive around the block, but the point is you could easily transfer one fuel to another.

what do you do with the nuclear waste? how about we put a Nuke plant in your back yard.

then there is the issue of one energy source being controlled by local governements and coops. or storms taking out the only power source...

 

[WelshBloke]

what do you do with the nuclear waste? how about we put a Nuke plant in your back yard.

You'd be happy to have a coal fired powerstation in your back yard?

We've got to get power from somewhere.

In the end it's going to be a mixture of renewables and some form of nuclear.

 

[sdifox]

what do you do with the nuclear waste? how about we put a Nuke plant in your back yard.

then there is the issue of one energy source being controlled by local governements and coops. or storms taking out the only power source...

Nuclear waste reprocessing. Remove the ban and start reducing the nuclear waste pile.

 

[lxskllr]

Nuclear waste reprocessing. Remove the ban and start reducing the nuclear waste pile.

That's what I'd like to see, and it's the only way I'd support nuclear.

 

[sdifox]

That's what I'd like to see, and it's the only way I'd support nuclear.

Should tie us over til fusion reactor is ready.

 

[OutHouse]

You'd be happy to have a coal fired powerstation in your back yard?

We've got to get power from somewhere.

In the end it's going to be a mixture of renewables and some form of nuclear.

no, i have a natural gas power plant half mile from my house.

 

[Newbian]

Yup electric is superior because it doesn't require running to a charging station all the time either. They just magically charge themselves.

This is my concern.

How long does it take to charge these types of vehicles for how would people go on trips or what if they forget to charge at home when they sleep?

Gas is nice as it takes a few minutes to refill at most but expecting people to stop for a hour+ to recharge a bit could be a issue at some kind of recharge stations.

 

[sdifox]

no, i have a natural gas power plant half mile from my house.

And I am 33 km from a nuke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_Nuclear_Generating_Station

 

[sdifox]

This is my concern.

How long does it take to charge these types of vehicles for how would people go on trips or what if they forget to charge at home when they sleep?

Gas is nice as it takes a few minutes to refill at most but expecting people to stop for a hour+ to recharge a bit could be a issue at some kind of recharge stations.

You would no longer own a car. Instead be ferried by automated fleet.

you would go to the track to drive for fun.

 

[OutHouse]

This is my concern.

How long does it take to charge these types of vehicles for how would people go on trips or what if they forget to charge at home when they sleep?

Gas is nice as it takes a few minutes to refill at most but expecting people to stop for a hour+ to recharge a bit could be a issue at some kind of recharge stations.

Tesla, if you charge at home its 1 hour = 58 miles. but i guess at their super charging stations they build it takes 20 minutes to fully charge.

https://www.teslamotors.com/models-charging#/highpower

 

[zerocool84]

Most people can charge their cars at home. Or at their place of work.

Most people? If you plug it into a normal outlet which takes insanely long and run a long extension cord to the parking area. Most people live in apartments with parking spaces or park in the street and most people do not have charging stations for electric cars at work. Most people don't live in Silicon Valley.

 

[Accord99]

Tesla, if you charge at home its 1 hour = 58 miles. but i guess at their super charging stations they build it takes 20 minutes to fully charge.

https://www.teslamotors.com/models-charging#/highpower

From near empty, it takes about an hour to get to 85%. 20 minutes will get you about a hundred miles in the 85 kWh models.

http://insideevs.com/supercharging-tesla-model-s-70-85-kwh-video-comparison/

 

[DAGTA]

Yup electric is superior because it doesn't require running to a charging station all the time either. They just magically charge themselves.

Do you have electrical outlets at home?

 

[OutHouse]

Do you have electrical outlets at home?

not if he lives in a apartment or condo.

 

[DAGTA]

not if he lives in a apartment or condo.

That's going to need to shift, too. It's starting to happen in places in California.

 

[Imp]

You'd be happy to have a coal fired powerstation in your back yard?

Problem is that a coal spill/explosion doesn't end up in a 20 km exclusion zone for a couple centuries.

I'm not completely against nuclear and a big chunk of my power comes from nuclear, but that is a pretty tough love technology.

 

[zerocool84]

not if he lives in a apartment or condo.

Do you have electrical outlets at home?

Yup, and the fact that many people Park on the street and charging from a normal outlet won't even fully charge your vehicle overnight.

 

[Newbian]

Tesla, if you charge at home its 1 hour = 58 miles. but i guess at their super charging stations they build it takes 20 minutes to fully charge.

https://www.teslamotors.com/models-charging#/highpower

Do they accept partial charges without damage over time?

 

[Imp]

lol on the 20 minute charge stations. I forget where I read it, but there was a story in the past week about those quick charge stations in CA being hogged by people who park there and then go shopping for an hour. Not sure how that's a surprise.

 

[Caveman]

Obligatory song for this thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAvQSkK8Z8U

 

[Sonikku]

While I'm all for going green, we have to be realistic. A "green" solution that costs twice as much as the current option is no solution at all as far as many struggling families are concerned. It has to be affordable. Making such future solutions affordable is the kind of thing I think could stand to see a subsidy for. We give billion dollar subsidies to big oil to cover their costs of doing business at tax payer expense instead.

 

[bononos]

With proper planning instead of sticking to urban sprawl architecture, people might not need cars and would be able to walk/cycle to work/shopping areas. Europe is more farsighted than the US where people might drive 50 miles one way to get to work because housing prices are still high and living far away is what they can afford.

 

[shortylickens]

Dutch Labour party PvdA is pressing for the banning of sales of all petrol and diesel cars in the Netherlands from 2025.
The proposal has been met with support from the country’s lower houses of Parliament and could mean that only alternatively fuelled vehicles – such as electric cars – could be sold in the market nine years from now.
European leaders have been talking about such a ban for many years - insiders have suggested Paris will be the first to implement a zero-emissions-vehicle-only zone within its boundaries – but if it were introduced, the Dutch policy would come as the first complete ban on combustion-engined vehicles.

1. Diesel IS petroleum
2. Theres a buttload of other combustion engine types not the least of which is alcohol which is already kinda sorta in use all over the world.
3. Most electricity comes from oil and natural gas plants. Although Holland probably thinks they have enough windmills.
4. This is all just bullshit posturing to curry favor with the ignorant greenies who actually believe it could work.
5. My ass makes enough methane to power a small sedan.

 

[Newbian]

With proper planning instead of sticking to urban sprawl architecture, people might not need cars and would be able to walk/cycle to work/shopping areas. Europe is more farsighted than the US where people might drive 50 miles one way to get to work because housing prices are still high and living far away is what they can afford.

To be fair they have had hundreds of years more to plan and built their cities without such methods, cars, being available unlike a large part of the states short of the east coast and are limited in space for a lot of the area's unlike in the US.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Can I haz Alcohol powered turbine hybrid for my 300+ mile trips? At the current rate of battery tech, distance and speed of charging are going to be issues, not to mention wear on the (lithium?) batteries with use of fast charging