Netflix Blocking VPNs Annoying A Lot of People

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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
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So who made you the arbiter of those varying degrees? Why do you get to say that the football pirate isn't bad, but the movie pirate is? That's rather subjective, don't you think?

Yes, and I'm just voicing my subjective opinion in the matter. As it is just my opinion which carries absolutely no weight anywhere, I get to say whatever the fuck I want.

OPINIONS, HOW THE FUCK DO THEY WORK!?!?
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
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This issue is one that will continue on as long as we have grey markets. This is no different than Steam not honoring keys intended for sale in markets other than that which they are being used. Now, Steam hasn't taken a hard stance on that, as the negative PR isn't with the loss in revenue, but they maintains their stance of being against it and reserve the right to police it as they see fit.

I'd wager it isn't even Netflix who is being forced to do this. Netflix only purchases broadcast rights to a certain area. The cable companies may force Netflix hand with "actively attempt to block those that pirate these broadcasts or we will sue / refuse to sell the rights to broadcast".
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
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I'd wager it isn't even Netflix who is being forced to do this. Netflix only purchases broadcast rights to a certain area. The cable companies may force Netflix hand with "actively attempt to block those that pirate these broadcasts or we will sue / refuse to sell the rights to broadcast".

:thumbsup:
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,779
882
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This issue is one that will continue on as long as we have grey markets. This is no different than Steam not honoring keys intended for sale in markets other than that which they are being used. Now, Steam hasn't taken a hard stance on that, as the negative PR isn't with the loss in revenue, but they maintains their stance of being against it and reserve the right to police it as they see fit.

The problem is prices vary in different regions and once they do enforce it more sites like GmG will suffer as that's how they make their money.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
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I think we can all agree that there are varying degrees of illegal.

There are varying degree of crimes, but only two degrees of legality.

The laws are really quite fine, it's the distribution rights that need adjusting. FWIW I think what you want is the way it should be, but it's not. The distributors need to stop buying regional rights, all or nothing. Netflix is one of the few distributors in a position to change this as they have a mostly global presence.

You can't argue that it's vague legal. It's clearly illegal.

That being said, what does get grey really fast is those distribution rights. I pay netflix, and they pay the artist. However, I didn't directly pay for the rights in a given region. Technically, some of the money I paid does go to the artist. Legally however that artist could make additional money by selling the rights in other regions, so they also incur a loss.

It's not the same as downloading from torrents, but it's also not the same as getting it legally.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Yes, and I'm just voicing my subjective opinion in the matter. As it is just my opinion which carries absolutely no weight anywhere, I get to say whatever the fuck I want.

OPINIONS, HOW THE FUCK DO THEY WORK!?!?

At least you recognize that don't understand how opinions work. You're not the only person who gets to have them, you know. So stop accusing people and labeling them "thieves who steal things" based on their opinions.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
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The issue is always around where I physically am. I live in the USA and buy the service in the USA. If I go outside the USA on a business trip suddenly I lose the service. I am sure that other companies have the distribution rights where I am, but I am not really in their market.

To get around geoblockimg for most services requires a base US address and credit card. It is not just using a VPN. They block via IP address because it is the only way they have to determine where you are and since they know your IP address they cannot tell their suppliers that they stream to USA only. They could negotiate that (and the huge opening of more countries to Netflix recently is a sign they are doing so), but I think my use is innocent.

I don't have the same issue with the streaming NHL subscription I have since my cable tv package is pretty big and that service works well in China and there are no blackouts here at all. They do some blackouts in Europe because the league has a tv deal there.

Also, I am pretty sure that netflix's user agreement has a clause about geoblockimg and you agree to it to use the service.

Pirating discussions are like following the speed limit. If I go over the speed limit I am breaking the law. The police (and society) accepts this unless the speed is excessive. Netflix has to have some controls and I bet they stopped fighting on VPN with their suppliers opened up more countries to them. So I am probably in a breach of contract with Netflix (I actually use Hulu a lot more, this is just an example) when I use it in China. I am big on respecting the law but I can look myself in the mirror and feel comfortable with the way I use my VPN.

Michael
 
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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
At least you recognize that don't understand how opinions work. You're not the only person who gets to have them, you know. So stop accusing people and labeling them "thieves who steal things" based on their opinions.

Can you point out to me where I labeled someone a thief based on their opinions?


I'm pretty sure the only people I call thieves are the ones actually engaging in IP theft or similar, but if I did call someone a thief based on their opinions then that was my bad.
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
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It's not the same as downloading from torrents, but it's also not the same as getting it legally.

I think that is spot on analysis that shows that the real debate is more moral than legal since the legal system lacks the nuance to completely address the morality of the situation. Good job.

My contribution to that debate is at some level morality gives way to practicality. Despite all the excuses 17 year old me had in 1999 Napster was wrong. Stealing those songs were wrong. But it happened and a lot of people doing that changed the industry in a fairly short time into one I am giving more money to than even before when Napster hit (between Spotify fees and random digital purchases to fill in what their library lacks). The industry was forced to adapt, and it did.

The end result was the morals didn't matter, market forces matter. There are side arguments like Spotify isn't sustainable or the current model doesn't pay enough, but no one can deny piracy pressure forced a practical product that was better than the illegal side ever offered. The ends don't justify the means but at some point reality can't be denied. The music companies forever lost complete control over distribution back in 1999 and the public (and much more powerful technology companies) have/had no interest in funding all the legal resources to put their genie back in their bottle for them. So they adapted.

If the video content producers cling to consumer fragmentation, annoying restrictions, or ploys to force people back into the old/dying but more lucrative models of distribution (like Hulu does) then they are making their product worse than piracy and giving pirates the market strength needed to increase their influence and do more harm long-term. These companies need to come together and standardize their offerings pronto rather than hide behind 20th century distribution models. They either beat the convenience of piracy (which a VPNed Netflix does), or we all watch as a huge chunk of the current media infrastructure for video dies and isn't replaced. Which would suck.

For example, on the VPN issue what you or I think about the morals or US legal implications doesn't matter. What the local authorities in that country think is what matters, because they have to enforce the rule. When the consumer explains all the hoops they tried to jump through to pay them and get the content legally only to fail (because of distribution agreements) that might encourage local authorities to look the other way to commercialized piracy that does offer convenience. And if a place embraces commercialized piracy eventually it becomes a haven for things like streaming sites or worse that US/Europe based pirates then use and real damage is done in non related markets.

Peeing on a fire won't put it out. Convincing people to stop putting wood on it like the music companies did will.
 
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Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
I used a VPN when in Italy because I was a paying customer and Netflix at the time didn't work at all there. Was what I was doing illegal? I guess technically, but I was paying for it, auto deducted from my account the whole time I was there. I am still a paying customer, have been forever. Netflix is making poor decisions in this regard, and I don't really feel bad for them about what people do to watch.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Peeing on a fire won't put it out. Convincing people to stop putting wood on it like the music companies did will.

The problem is they are hanging on to the physical distribution method and applying it to digital. For physical distribution they problem was a distributor simply didn't want to do business in foreign markets. They didn't want to deal with either manufacturing or shipping. So they went to the producers and said "hey I don't have a presence in S. America/Eurpoe/Asis/whatever, can you sell me the rights for just N. America at a lower cost?"

The producers jumped on this. Now they could sell their rights multiple times. Instead of $10M for world wide, they could sell NA for $6M, Europe for $4M Asia for $4M, etc.

Now with digital, we're back to being able to distribute world wide very easily. Just have a few regional servers and done. So as you said, making the same mistakes music did. IIRC iTunes still has regional restrictions as well.

Even if the market corrected itself today, there are contracts in place with terms for who knows how long. These will hang around for quite some time.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Even if the market corrected itself today, there are contracts in place with terms for who knows how long. These will hang around for quite some time.

Agreed and that sucks because it means a lot of content won't survive when the old cable/ad based model loses critical mass. Companies like Netflix and HBO are already ahead of the curve as they offer enough convienece and content to be supplements to piracy (for Netflix original shows maybe) or locally produced content. But a lot of companies are behind the curve, and cable distribution is about to break from the increased pressure and rising costs.
 

Charmonium

Lifer
May 15, 2015
10,366
3,427
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The only reason I have cable is that it's too much trouble to try to find all of shows I watch on other sources. If you're a big consumer of content, you really can't beat cable. But most people aren't. The have jobs and families and lives. They might watch a couple of hours of programming per day. They can easily get that amount by going exclusively to streaming. It's only when you want more that cable becomes attractive.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Who cares about the morals other than digital media SJWs, money will eventually talk and bullshit will eventually walk like it always do. And always blame the free market when it doesn't work for you, hurr hurr.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Agreed and that sucks because it means a lot of content won't survive when the old cable/ad based model loses critical mass. Companies like Netflix and HBO are already ahead of the curve as they offer enough convienece and content to be supplements to piracy (for Netflix original shows maybe) or locally produced content. But a lot of companies are behind the curve, and cable distribution is about to break from the increased pressure and rising costs.

Interesting... I was looking for a link that showed even netflix's own content is regional (pretty sure I read that somewhere) and ran into this.

http://variety.com/2015/digital/news/netflix-ted-sarandos-global-licensing-rights-1201655380/

“We are embarking on something that’s fairly new in the media space – the global licensing of programming,” said Ted Sarandos, the company’s chief content officer, speaking Monday at an investor conference held by UBS.
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
Recently I missed a free TV show OTA. I thought I would go to their website too watch it but I would need to verify with a CABLE OR SAT provider first before I could stream it. Where is the option for ANTENNA?
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Where is the option for ANTENNA?

VCR-1200.jpg
 

xorbe

Senior member
Sep 7, 2011
368
0
76
I guess people will have to pay another $5-10/mo and set up a reflector not hosted on a VPN end point.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Don't you love how the content creators make it hard to legally watch paid content, while all of the pirate streaming services are making it easier? Hell, you can buy a hacked FireTV stick on eBay for $50 now that will like you watch most of this stuff for free.
 

xorbe

Senior member
Sep 7, 2011
368
0
76
Don't you love how the content creators make it hard to legally watch paid content, while all of the pirate streaming services are making it easier? Hell, you can buy a hacked FireTV stick on eBay for $50 now that will like you watch most of this stuff for free.

Another thing is that when the entire file is sitting on the PC, seeking around is much faster, like instant vs seconds of delay. And when you torrent you get all 15 episodes in one shot.