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Netanyuhu finally forced to lay his BS on the line.

Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
As we all know, Palestinian and Israeli negotiations over a negotiated settlement to form a Palestinian state have been in a process of stalemate ever since President Obama tried to help the process along by proposing a key issue of a Israeli settlement freeze on disputed territories over land captured in the 1967&73 wars.

As Israel promptly played the AIPAC card, as President Obama, for political reasons, was forced to back down on demanding an Israeli settlement freeze, and all talks broke down by10/2011. Basically removing the USA, for the first time in 50 years, from any world wide trust of being a honest peace broker. As the UN quartet, set a four month deadline for both sides to present their version of a plan. As Bozo Netanyuhu now says the four month clock only starts ticking when when negotiations formally restart, a bit arrogant when the quartet is the sole arbiter of the deadline they set.

But when King Abdullah of Jordon intervened, and made his own efforts to broker a settlement, both Israel and the Palestinians agreed to give it a try. The Palestinians promptly submitted a plan based on the universally agreed international 1967 lines, while the Israelis submitted nothing in writing, As Abbas sadly told King Abdullah his talks had produced nothing. And Abbas would then go to the Arab League and then to the UN general assembly to request a Palestinian State over 2/3 of the nations on earth now support.

So finally we arrive at 1/26/2012 deadline, and Bozo Netanyuhu finally submits his vague plan based on the principle that any disputed land Israels had settled on since 1967 must remain in Israeli hands. Absolutely proving that Abbas had been right all along, there is no hope of negotiating with Israel without a retroactive settlement freeze.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...estinians-with-its-stance-on-borders-1.409363

Note also, all the various Israeli comments and the fact this going over in the international community like a lead balloon for Netanyuhu.


Profanity in the thread title is not acceptable. You were previously issued a formal warning for this, you know better.

Administrator Idontcare
 
Last edited by a moderator:
are you antisemitic or something? you are not allowed to use 'Israel' and 'universally' in the same paragraph. :awe:
 
Excuse me, I am not antisemitic, or pro Arab either, but when I apply my American values of fairness, it has nothing to do with antisemitism and everything to do with the behavior of the Present Israeli government.

Besides I did not write this link, and the arbiters of this final collapse of Netanyuhu bullshit will not be me or this forum, as we witness an event in world history.

Hopefully rational people on all sides will recognize Netanyuhu bullshit is no part of a solution and everything to do with the problem.
 
Palestinians have preconditions. Israel has preconditions. Both sides will not talk when the other has conditions.

What is new?
 
EagleKeeper said:
Palestinians have preconditions. Israel has preconditions. Both sides will not talk when the other has conditions.

What is new?
Click to expand...
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What is new EK, is that Netanyuhu can no longer claim that he advocates a Palestinian state
when he now proves his positions and actual actions now no absolutely longer match is claims or rhetoric.

Earth to EK and maybe earth to me, we won't be the deciders, but I still think the big loser in terms of the international quartet will be Netanuhuhu and his crazed settler parties who have painted themselves into a corner.

How events proceed from now will be out of our hands.
 
Lemon law said:
Excuse me, I am not antisemitic, or pro Arab either, but when I apply my American values of fairness, it has nothing to do with antisemitism and everything to do with the behavior of the Present Israeli government.

Besides I did not write this link, and the arbiters of this final collapse of Netanyuhu bullshit will not be me or this forum, as we witness an event in world history.

Hopefully rational people on all sides will recognize Netanyuhu bullshit is no part of a solution and everything to do with the problem.
Click to expand...

Son, i've listened to you defend the Taliban even after i told you about them and even after the news came out and the pictures of their handiwork and reports on how they treat young girls...

If there was any form of respect i had for you before that, it's long gone now. All i see is a man who is desperate to claim to be right even though he has to know he's wrong.

I'd pity you if you were worth it but you are not, you are just another fucking terrorist sympathizer and the sooner this world is rid of the likes of you, the better.
 
Lemon law said:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is new EK, is that Netanyuhu can no longer claim that he advocates a Palestinian state
when he now proves his positions and actual actions now no absolutely longer match is claims or rhetoric.

Earth to EK and maybe earth to me, we won't be the deciders, but I still think the big loser in terms of the international quartet will be Netanuhuhu and his crazed settler parties who have painted themselves into a corner.

How events proceed from now will be out of our hands.
Click to expand...

When did he ever say he advocates a Palestinian state under these conditions?

The EU doesn't, the UN doesn't, the US doesn't why would Net?

They had their chance, it was supposed to be a two state solution but they thought they could just kill the Jews and take the land... That didn't go as planned and after all wars they are in the shitter now, continously doing their best with weekly acts of terrorism.

And you expect Israel to say "ok, we won't demand you stop with the terrorism or that you even agree on anything with each other or that you remove the goal of destroying all of Israel, we will simply give you enough land so that we cannot defend ourselves when our neighbours once again are ruled by religious fanatics"?

Are you REALLY that daft you terrorist hugging anti-semite?
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
I'd pity you if you were worth it but you are not, you are just another fucking terrorist sympathizer and the sooner this world is rid of the likes of you, the better.
Click to expand...
Personal threats on an internet forum, ain't cool.

I do not see an issue against the OP, nor any evidence since my joining this forum of Lemon Law being anti-semitic. That is a dishonest and forum disrupting charge when applied for the cause of a critique against the state of Israel. Criticising a government for it's actions may not equate to bigotry.

JohnofSheffield's post is a prime example of abusive trolling and reasoning for greater moderation in this forum.
 
Whiskey16 said:
Personal threats on an internet forum, ain't cool.
Click to expand...

How is that a personal threat? Perhaps if you spent some time with your idols in the Taliban you'd know what a personal threat was, or at least you would if you were a pre teen girl waiting to die from a gunshot wound in her vagina after being gang raped.

I've told Lemon about that before, he's seen the pictures and read reports and he still thinks they are just dandy.

In fact, he feels that they are the right kind of people to hold government in Afghanistan and has said so himself.

To me who were there fighting them, the very idea of negotiating with them is obscene and something that will in time prove to be detrimental to those who do so.

Now, when it comes to Israel, the day Palestinians lay down their weapons and acknowledges the state of Israel there will be peace, not one day sooner, they want to be recognized as a state but refuse to recognize Israel?

And naturally the likes of you think that is the way it should be, THAT is why you are anti-semitic, you acknowledge their rights but not those of Jews, you differntiate based on nothing BUT Israelis being Jews.

So you can shove a jumping stilt up your arse and just hippety hop right to hell.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Son, i've listened to you defend the Taliban even after i told you about them and even after the news came out and the pictures of their handiwork and reports on how they treat young girls...

If there was any form of respect i had for you before that, it's long gone now. All i see is a man who is desperate to claim to be right even though he has to know he's wrong.

I'd pity you if you were worth it but you are not, you are just another fucking terrorist sympathizer and the sooner this world is rid of the likes of you, the better.
Click to expand...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all JOS, don't even dare to dmean me by calling me son. Nor am I a terrorist or Taliban sympathizer, but I call a spade a spade when aholes like you make the Taliban look good in the eyes of the Afghan people.

Its sure not my fault when Nato can't even come in second in a beauty contest with the Taliban. In 2002 most Afghans hoped Nato would provide the better alternative to the Taliban, but Jerks like you JOS and Nato policies dashed those Afghan hopes.

Tell me again, how I either caused those Afghan attitudes shifts or failed to warn this forum of the inevitable results if Nato did not alter its policies. I despise the Taliban and their ideals even more than you do, but you and your stinking thinking have empowered the Taliban return.
 
The Palestinian precondition is the destruction of Israel. Of course the leader of Israel will not agree to such a precondition.
 
Pardon me, JOS if I perceive, that your fanaticism and Taliban fanaticism are just the opposite sides of the same counterfeit coin. As you perceive with crystal clarity all Taliban atrocities while turning a total blind eye towards very similar Nato atrocities.

While the judge , jury, and executioner of the verdict is not you or I, and instead is the Afghan people who hoped Nato would be a better alternative than the Taliban.

There is no one so blind as those that will not see, as you fail to ask or even understand why Nato failed to win the hearts or minds of the Afghan people by being even worse than the Taliban.

But still we are getting far afield of the Israeli questions being asked on this thread. Proving some Palestinians were wrong in the past does nothing to prove the Israeli government is right now. As you have the same failing counterfeit argument regarding Israel as you had in Afghanistan.

Is there a dimes worth of difference between the Nazis and the present Israeli government as both demanded a total win when others like me envision a win win for both sides in mutual co-operation. The entire mideast has a common problem, a lack of water and the engineering to solve the problem. The Israeli idea that anything good for surrounding states is bad for Israel is dead end stinking thinking that is unsustainable for a Israeli State in the fullness of time.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Son, i've listened to you defend the Taliban even after i told you about them and even after the news came out and the pictures of their handiwork and reports on how they treat young girls...

If there was any form of respect i had for you before that, it's long gone now. All i see is a man who is desperate to claim to be right even though he has to know he's wrong.

I'd pity you if you were worth it but you are not, you are just another fucking terrorist sympathizer and the sooner this world is rid of the likes of you, the better.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:
 
The settlements are wrong and we are part of the shame as long as we tolerate them. We're causing oppression and violence by doing so. Israel has too much political clout.

Our presidential candidates only have to pledge allegiance and the fortune and lives of American to one country other than the US.

Obama only promised absolute loyalty and service to protect one country other than the US in his State of the Union. 'Special Relationship'? Britain has nothing on Israel.

This makes sense to a point. Israel is a natural ally in a number of ways, including being a relatively westernized, free, advanced, prosperous ally in the region.

There's a line between ally, and blind ally supporting wrong and right both.

Better US governments than we've had in a long time made these hard choices when they told Europe the US would no longer support their colonial policies.

Now we face the same need to tell Israel we support them when right but not for these ongoing settlement encroachments and violations of international law.

They game the system enough on land, pursuing a long-term plan to push out Palestinians. For example, in Israel, they'll set up a 'totally fair and free' policy on buying land anyone can do - but reportedly they then have a huge effort raising funds to only buy that land for Jewish people that anyone else can't begin to compete with.

It's a basic conflict between the desire to preserve a religious state that's Jewish regardless of the demographics, with fairness not to treat others as second-class.

Admittedly it's a hard situation - we don't face it in the US. What if our demographics were to see a new group become the majority who would elect the government and we expected big changes to the country as a result? While our democratic principles say that's not a problem, the fact is most people wouldn't like it at all for the most part, and there would be questions about keeping the 'neutral' system we have.

Seems to me though that the policies are more unfair than that explains, that there's little to no interest in really pursuing any reasonable solution if they can 'do better'.

Our politicians are unable and/or unwilling to stand up for better values and do what's easy, adopting the agenda of the powerful lobby.

Just as candidates all but need Wall Street to approve them to get funding needed to win, the same goes for the Israel lobby it seems. So the 'issues' can be to pick between Gingrich's scandalous history, and Romney's flip-flopping, and Santorum's bigotry, and Obama's whatever people have an issue with, but they all are in line on the other issues. The only one who's not is the otherwise radical Ron Paul, and he's not going to have a chance.

We should be willing to use our leverage to pressure Israel to not do these bad actions - and to pursue a better peace in the region, which seems possible to me if we do.

There's a lot of propaganda saying otherwise - 'violence is the only language they speak!' but I think that's largely been to defend attacking them.

The rest of the world isn't all crazy when these UN votes come back with only Israel and the US voting on one side.

I think one thing that might help, though, besides expecting them to be nice in negotiations would be to encourage more economic interdependence - to start to have Israel and neighbors doing more for each other and benefiting from each other instead of just being enemies - a little like the US and China. Israel already uses Palestinian labor, but that's not the same type of thing any more than Mexican labor being essential to US agriculture changes our relations.
 
cybrsage said:
The Palestinian precondition is the destruction of Israel. Of course the leader of Israel will not agree to such a precondition.
Click to expand...

That's true, but Israel isn't really at all interested in peace either. They have so much more to gain by keeping the conflict going on and on and on.
 
Lemon law said:
Is there a dimes worth of difference between the Nazis and the present Israeli government as both demanded a total win when others like me envision a win win for both sides in mutual co-operation. The entire mideast has a common problem, a lack of water and the engineering to solve the problem. The Israeli idea that anything good for surrounding states is bad for Israel is dead end stinking thinking that is unsustainable for a Israeli State in the fullness of time.
Click to expand...

So you don't see more than a "dime's worth of difference between the Nazis and the present Israeli government?"

I want you to think really, really hard about what you wrote. Now - just for shits and giggles - let's see if you come up with more than a "dime's worth of difference" between the two.
 
Whiskey16 said:
Personal threats on an internet forum, ain't cool.

I do not see an issue against the OP, nor any evidence since my joining this forum of Lemon Law being anti-semitic. That is a dishonest and forum disrupting charge when applied for the cause of a critique against the state of Israel. Criticising a government for it's actions may not equate to bigotry.

JohnofSheffield's post is a prime example of abusive trolling and reasoning for greater moderation in this forum.
Click to expand...

Not a personal threat. Is English your second language by any chance? Serious question.
 
Lemon law said:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all JOS, don't even dare to dmean me by calling me son. Nor am I a terrorist or Taliban sympathizer, but I call a spade a spade when aholes like you make the Taliban look good in the eyes of the Afghan people.

Its sure not my fault when Nato can't even come in second in a beauty contest with the Taliban. In 2002 most Afghans hoped Nato would provide the better alternative to the Taliban, but Jerks like you JOS and Nato policies dashed those Afghan hopes.

Tell me again, how I either caused those Afghan attitudes shifts or failed to warn this forum of the inevitable results if Nato did not alter its policies. I despise the Taliban and their ideals even more than you do, but you and your stinking thinking have empowered the Taliban return.
Click to expand...

Oh, yes, LL, you are a terrorist sympathizer. Your posting history will bear that out, especially with regards to Palestine.
 
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