Netanyuhu finally forced to lay his BS on the line.

[Broheim]

In his "shits and giggles" post he said "I killed your kind in Afghanistan" referring to The Green Bean. If there is evidence to demonstrate Bean is a member of the Taliban who shoots at NATO troops, please share.

in my mind TGB is cut from the same cloth as the Taliban, you might not agree with me, but don't try and make it look like I ran around killing innocent civilians you dishonest piece of shit.

 

[cybrsage]

Maybe its time to ask, who is a true Jew and who is not? As Israeli orthadox Jews now ask these questions and start to deny the Jewishness of Ethiopians Jews, and many Jews trying to enter Israel.

Ethiopian Jews have been ruled to be Jews and many mass migrations have been done:

Beta Israel (Hebrew: בֵּיתֶא יִשְׂרָאֵל‎‎ - Beyte (beyt) Israel, Ge'ez: ቤተ እስራኤል - Bēta 'Isrā'ēl, modern Bēte 'Isrā'ēl, EAE: "Betä Ǝsraʾel", "Community of Israel" [4] also known as Ethiopian Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדֵי ‏אֶ‏תְיוֹ‏פְּ‏יָ‏ה‎‎: Yhudey Etiopiya, Ge'ez: "የኢትዮጵያ አይሁድዊ", ye-Ityoppya Ayhudi), are the names of Jewish communities which lived in the area of Aksumite and Ethiopian Empires (Habesh or Abyssinia), nowadays divided between Amhara and Tigray Regions.

Beta Israel lived in North and North-Western Ethiopia, in more than 500 small villages spread over a wide territory, among Muslim and predominantly Christian ruling populations. Most of them were concentrated in the area around Lake Tana and north of it, in the Tigray and Gonder regions, among the Semien, Wolqayit, Dembia, Segelt, Lasta, Quara, Belesa, and small numbers lived in the cities of Gonder and Addis Ababa.
—Hagar Salamon[5]
​

Nearly all of the Ethiopian Beta Israel community, more than 120,000 people, reside in Israel under its Law of Return, which gives Jews and those with Jewish parents or grandparents, and all of their spouses, the right to settle in Israel and obtain citizenship. The Israeli government has mounted rescue operations, most notably during Operation Moses (1984), Operation Sheba (1985) and Operation Solomon (1991) for their migration. Some immigration has continued up through present day. Today 81,000 Ethiopian Israelis were born in Ethiopia, while 38,500 or 32% of the community are native born Israelis.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel

And yes folks that would include me as a 1/4 Jews. As my Danish Christian grandfather married a Jewish female, as my father was thus a technically a Jew, and then married a gentile mother making me 1/4 Jewish. My father never practiced the Jewish religion but it left me never hating or loving Judaism. Or Christianity either.

Your father was not 1/2, but 1/1 Jew. By the Law of Return, you would be considered a Jew, since your grandmother was a Jew. You would have to be able to support this via good documentation, though.

 

[cybrsage]

Is Clinton happy when he "knows" you, biblically speaking? And what, exactly was that "good thing" that you "know enough", biblically speaking -a love doll with a two-inch "canal?"

Clinton was good...it is no wonder so many women wanted him. Your life is slightly diminished by never having had the pleasure of him.

 

[fskimospy]

When did he ever say he advocates a Palestinian state under these conditions?

The EU doesn't, the UN doesn't, the US doesn't why would Net?

They had their chance, it was supposed to be a two state solution but they thought they could just kill the Jews and take the land... That didn't go as planned and after all wars they are in the shitter now, continously doing their best with weekly acts of terrorism.

And you expect Israel to say "ok, we won't demand you stop with the terrorism or that you even agree on anything with each other or that you remove the goal of destroying all of Israel, we will simply give you enough land so that we cannot defend ourselves when our neighbours once again are ruled by religious fanatics"?

Are you REALLY that daft you terrorist hugging anti-semite?

I didn't see this until now, there's a lot of misinformation here. The entity that Israel is negotiating with, the PLO, has long since recognized Israel. Furthermore, I am unaware of a single state considers the Israeli settlements legitimate. As someone who recently had to sit through about 7 hours of statements on the January 24 UNSC open debate on Palestine, I can assure you that the world, the EU, UN and even the US does in fact want a two state solution based on 1967 borders. The Israeli bargaining position is clearly set against the preferences of basically every state on earth.

I hope everyone realizes what a big deal this is. Israeli settlements in their current capacity in and around East Jerusalem specifically, directly undermine the territorial viability of a future Palestinian state. The combination of accelerated settlement activity and a demand to keep this land is simply incompatible with a two state solution as it is commonly understood.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I didn't see this until now, there's a lot of misinformation here. The entity that Israel is negotiating with, the PLO, has long since recognized Israel.
-- YES the entity under Yassar Arafat called the PLO recognized Israel! not the entity called the PLO under the direction of Hamas! I can also assure you that Fatah will never recognize Israel.

Furthermore, I am unaware of a single state considers the Israeli settlements legitimate. As someone who recently had to sit through about 7 hours of statements on the January 24 UNSC open debate on Palestine, I can assure you that the world, the EU, UN and even the US does in fact want a two state solution based on 1967 borders.--- your assurances are wrong! Please link to youer assurances. For israel to agree to the 1967 borders would be suicide. That will never happen!

The Israeli bargaining position is clearly set against the preferences of basically every state on earth. -- again you have no proof! What does that matter? Israel knows what they can and cannot accept in terms of bargaining for peace!

I hope everyone realizes what a big deal this is. Israeli settlements in their current capacity in and around East Jerusalem specifically, directly undermine the territorial viability of a future Palestinian state. The combination of accelerated settlement activity and a demand to keep this land is simply incompatible with a two state solution as it is commonly understood.

Other than being wrong about the recognition of Israel and misleading if I may say so -- due to the fact that Hamas and Fatah will never recognize Israel and Arafat being dead it sort of is a moot point.

Israel also recognized the PLO as the sole representatives of the Palestinian people. Yassar Arafat even realeased an announcement to the press. -- Arafat died in a French hospital. Yet some Palestinians accused Israel of poisoning Arafat!.....hmmmm

The settlement issue will be a dicey one. But it takes two to bargain and it is plainly obvious the Palestinians only desire that Israel giove and give and give.

 

[kylebisme]

in my mind TGB is cut from the same cloth as the Taliban, you might not agree with me, but don't try and make it look like I ran around killing innocent civilians you dishonest piece of shit.

I don't doubt what you say goes on in your mind, but you didn't say you killed people like him to protect innocent civilians and yourself and your fellow troops, you said you did it for "shits and giggles". In my mind, that comment of yours suggested you are cut from the same cloth as guys like this, who in the mist of returning fire on a sniper position decide to unload on cars peacefully driving down the road, and then proceed to laugh about it. So, what is you're position on that, were the people in those cars cut from the same cloth as the Taliban too, and therefor not innocent civilians?

 

[fskimospy]

Other than being wrong about the recognition of Israel and misleading if I may say so -- due to the fact that Hamas and Fatah will never recognize Israel and Arafat being dead it sort of is a moot point.

The settlement issue will be a dicey one. But it takes two to bargain and it is plainly obvious the Palestinians only desire that Israel giove and give and give.

Well this is certainly news to me. The international representative of Palestine, the PLO, explicitly recognized Israel as part of the Oslo Accords. More relevant to today is that Palestinian negotiators have recently been using the withdrawal of Palestinian recognition as a stick by which to try to force Israel to negotiate. Very odd that they would threaten to remove something that doesn't exist. What you said is simply incorrect.

The settlement issue is not a dicey one, at least not from an international standpoint. (internal Israeli politics aside that is) Israeli settlement activity is universally condemned as illegitimate and illegal. Seriously, the UNSC website probably has the video from the 24 January debate up still. Go find me a single country that doesn't say this, and that includes countries from all over the world, the US included.

Removing illegal settlements is not 'giving'. It is fulfilling Israel's obligations under international law. If I steal your wallet and then hand it back to you, do you consider that me giving you something?

The reason why these settlements are bad (outside of their illegality), is that everyone knows they undermine the peace process. Sure, maybe the odds of concluding it were bad anyway. This completely destroys them, and it is evidence that Israel is not negotiating in good faith.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Well this is certainly news to me. The international representative of Palestine, the PLO, explicitly recognized Israel as part of the Oslo Accords. More relevant to today is that Palestinian negotiators have recently been using the withdrawal of Palestinian recognition as a stick by which to try to force Israel to negotiate. Very odd that they would threaten to remove something that doesn't exist. What you said is simply incorrect.

You are 100% totally wrong! Olso was back in 1993 and if you do some real research you will find that you are spewing misinformation.
Hamas and Fatah have never recognized israel`s right to exist. I find it odd that you could be duped into believe what just is not the truth! Israel and Arafat`s PLO recognized each other. The present PLO is not the exact same entity.

Lets pretent for a minute that Abbas said something along the lines that you are suggesting. The final Authority is Hamas and if we include fatah...niether of those groups has recognized israel`s right to anything.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...+exist&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

 

[fskimospy]

You are 100% totally wrong! Olso was back in 1993 and if you do some real research you will find that you are spewing misinformation.
Hamas and Fatah have never recognized israel`s right to exist. I find it odd that you could be duped into believe what just is not the truth! Israel and Arafat`s PLO recognized each other. The present PLO is not the exact same entity.

Lets pretent for a minute that Abbas said something along the lines that you are suggesting. The final Authority is Hamas and if we include fatah...niether of those groups has recognized israel`s right to anything.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...+exist&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

You are simply factually incorrect. The PLO is in fact the same organization today as it was in 1993 from a legal standpoint. All of the same binding guarantees and treaty obligations exist on it today as ever have. Hamas and Fatah are political parties within the Palestinian territories, they are not the PLO. Their individual ideologies do not in fact alter the organizational commitments any more than a Republican getting elected changes those for the US, no matter how much they might not like it.

As I mentioned earlier, Palestine has recently been threatening to revoke its recognition of Israel in order to provoke negotiations. Can you explain how the PLO might be doing this if it did not recognize Israel currently? Why do you believe their negotiators are so confused?

The final authority in the PLO is most certainly not Hamas. Hamas controls most of the legislative body of the PLO, but that body exerts very little power. The actual power in the PLO is from the Executive Committee, which is dominated by the same people as ever.

 

[kylebisme]

Hamas and Fatah are political parties within the Palestinian territories, they are not the PLO.

Yeah, and also worth nothing that when Arafat, as head of the PLO, recognized Israel's right to exist, he was also the leader of Fatah, as noted right in the first link of Yoda's search results:

Yasser Arafat, the late PLO Chairman and leader of Fatah, wrote in a Sep. 9, 1993 letter to former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin prior to the signing of the 1993 Oslo Declaration of Principles:

"The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

...

On the other hand, the Israeli government has never reconciled the right of the State of Palestine to exist in peace and security, and they continue to refuse the terms of United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of where things stand now, after Israel made a vague, verbal , and unacceptable offer, here is the latest article I can find.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...n-fate-of-israel-peace-talks-in-days-1.409629

Which now, IMHO, puts Abbas in the drivers seat. Because, now that the 1/26/2012 Quartet deadline has expired, Abbas can take his case for a Palestinian State directly to the UN General Assembly and likely win a large majority. But first Abbas has to get the support of the Arab League, a formality probably accomplished by 2/4/20212.


As for the EU, politically most of their population supports a Palestinian State. The same can probably said of Russia and most of the UN. And if any of the quartet say no to a Palestinian State, The Arab States may go into oil embargo mode as Iraq and Afghanistan become even more unstable. And result in both Jordon and Egypt withdrawing from any previous agreements with Israel on the grounds of Israeli breech of contract.

But in maybe a last ditch effort, the EU, Russia, parts of the UN, and the USA, don't want to make the hard decisions right now. So they are trying to keep the Jordanian brokered talks from collapsing for the above reasons.

But to do so may finally require saying any final settlement must be based on 1967 borders and impose a probably retroactive and immediate settlement Freeze on Israel.
Basically what Obama advocated in 9/2010. And if so, all Netanyuhu accomplished was 16 months more or delay.

Meanwhile what is not linked, Israel is busily arresting elected Hamas officials, to prevent a Fatah and Hamas reconciliation and delay new Hamas or Fatah elections.

I won't make any specific predictions, but events in the next coming weeks may be crucial. And finally bring the Netanyuhu government down.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You are simply factually incorrect. The PLO is in fact the same organization today as it was in 1993 from a legal standpoint. All of the same binding guarantees and treaty obligations exist on it today as ever have. Hamas and Fatah are political parties within the Palestinian territories, they are not the PLO. Their individual ideologies do not in fact alter the organizational commitments any more than a Republican getting elected changes those for the US, no matter how much they might not like it.

As I mentioned earlier, Palestine has recently been threatening to revoke its recognition of Israel in order to provoke negotiations. Can you explain how the PLO might be doing this if it did not recognize Israel currently? Why do you believe their negotiators are so confused?

The final authority in the PLO is most certainly not Hamas. Hamas controls most of the legislative body of the PLO, but that body exerts very little power. The actual power in the PLO is from the Executive Committee, which is dominated by the same people as ever.

I am sorry that you are so very much mistaken.
All these various groups have to do is recognize Israel`s right to exist -- which presently NONE of them do!

You didn`t bather to check my link or you would have seen that I am totally correct!!

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_plo_israel_exist_1988.php

"I recall one conversation with PLO [Palestine Liberation Organization] leaders in particular. I was meeting with Khalid al-Hassan, one of the senior leaders in Fatah and a moderate. Hassan said the PLO could accept the first two conditions [(1)acceptance of UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338; (2)a renunciation of terrorism], but the third, recognizing Israel's right to exist 'was ideology.' Initially, this was puzzling, because the PLO was seeking to enter into negotiations with Israel in order to end the conflict through the creation of an independent Palestinian State.

Yet, Hassan's point was well taken. First of all, the concept of a state having a right to exist was, and is, outside the conceptual bounds of existing international law. It had no standing meaning. Was the right being referred to a legal right or a moral right? And more fundamentally, did it refer to a right to have come into existence, or a right to remain in existence?

When Hassan said the affirmation of Israel's right to exist was ideology, he was interpreting it as an affirmation that Israel had a moral right to come into existence. As to Israel's right, under international law, to come into existence, within a few months, the PLO reversed the historic stance of Palestinian nationalism. On November 15, 1988, in the text of its Declaration of Independence, the PLO affirmed for the first time that the historic Partition Resolution of 1947, (UNGA Res. 181) was part of valid international law, thus accepting that Israel came into being lawfully. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence specifically noted the factual truth that the Partition Resolution provided for 'two states, one Arab and one Jewish.'

What the PLO did not say, then or ever, was that Israel had a moral right to come into being. To do this would be to affirm the central ideological tenet of the Zionist movement. While such a view was widely shared by much of the world in 1947, there was virtually no Palestinian in the world who believed that then, hardly any that believed it in 1988, and scarcely more today."

It appears as if you and I will just have to agree to disagree! I respect your right to disagree. We can call this the Anand Acoords -- Peace!!~

 

[JEDIYoda]

Yeah, and also worth nothing that when Arafat, as head of the PLO, recognized Israel's right to exist, he was also the leader of Fatah, as noted right in the first link of Yoda's search results:

http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=5463
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party is generally seen as the more moderate of the Arab factions and is seen as a "partner for peace" with Israel.

However, that notion may be completely off, according to comments recently made by the PA's Ambassador to India, Adli Sadeq.

In an article he wrote in the official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, on November 26, Sadeq admitted that Fatah does not respect Israel anymore than Hamas does, and that moreover, the PA and Fatah utterly reject that Israel has any right to exist.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...aels-right-to-exist-and-will-never-do-so.html

Moderate Muslim Fatah: “We Have Never Recognized Israel’s Right to Exist And Will Never Do So"

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=433

The Palestinian Authority makes no attempt to educate its people towards peace and coexistence with Israel. On the contrary, from every possible platform it repeatedly rejects Israel's right to exist, presents the conflict as a religious battle for Islam, depicts the establishment of Israel as an act of imperialism, and perpetuates a picture of the Middle East, both verbally and visually, in which Israel does not exist at all. Israel's destruction is said to be both inevitable and a Palestinian obligation.

The following description of Israel's founding in a Palestinian schoolbook represents the dominant dogma about Israel:
"Palestine’s war ended with a catastrophe that is unprecedented in history, when the Zionist gangs stole Palestine … and established the State of Israel."
[Arabic Language, Analysis, Literature and Criticism, grade 12, p. 104]

This official PA map of "Palestine,” depicting Palestinian rule over all of Israel, was used in an official PA TV public service ad that ran daily for 3 months, Oct. – Dec. 2007. Similar maps presenting all of Israel as "Palestine" appear in Palestinian schoolbooks and are shown regularly on PATV.

 

[kylebisme]

"What the PLO did not say, then or ever, was that Israel had a moral right to come into being."

So what? I don't believe European colonists had any moral right to ethnically cleanse the Americas and conquer the land for themselves, but that does nothing to stop me from recognizing the rights of the states they established to exist. My position is the same on Israel, and Australia too.

 

[Broheim]

-snip-

first you want to call me a war criminal without any proof, but then you do a 180 and require proof for me calling TGB the same as the taliban.

you're a fucking hypocrit, you know that right?

 

[kylebisme]

I know you're misrepresenting what happened to slander me as a hypocrit, and dodging the question I asked you.

 

[fskimospy]

I am sorry that you are so very much mistaken.
All these various groups have to do is recognize Israel`s right to exist -- which presently NONE of them do!

You didn`t bather to check my link or you would have seen that I am totally correct!!

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_plo_israel_exist_1988.php

"I recall one conversation with PLO [Palestine Liberation Organization] leaders in particular. I was meeting with Khalid al-Hassan, one of the senior leaders in Fatah and a moderate. Hassan said the PLO could accept the first two conditions [(1)acceptance of UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338; (2)a renunciation of terrorism], but the third, recognizing Israel's right to exist 'was ideology.' Initially, this was puzzling, because the PLO was seeking to enter into negotiations with Israel in order to end the conflict through the creation of an independent Palestinian State.

Yet, Hassan's point was well taken. First of all, the concept of a state having a right to exist was, and is, outside the conceptual bounds of existing international law. It had no standing meaning. Was the right being referred to a legal right or a moral right? And more fundamentally, did it refer to a right to have come into existence, or a right to remain in existence?

When Hassan said the affirmation of Israel's right to exist was ideology, he was interpreting it as an affirmation that Israel had a moral right to come into existence. As to Israel's right, under international law, to come into existence, within a few months, the PLO reversed the historic stance of Palestinian nationalism. On November 15, 1988, in the text of its Declaration of Independence, the PLO affirmed for the first time that the historic Partition Resolution of 1947, (UNGA Res. 181) was part of valid international law, thus accepting that Israel came into being lawfully. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence specifically noted the factual truth that the Partition Resolution provided for 'two states, one Arab and one Jewish.'

What the PLO did not say, then or ever, was that Israel had a moral right to come into being. To do this would be to affirm the central ideological tenet of the Zionist movement. While such a view was widely shared by much of the world in 1947, there was virtually no Palestinian in the world who believed that then, hardly any that believed it in 1988, and scarcely more today."

It appears as if you and I will just have to agree to disagree! I respect your right to disagree. We can call this the Anand Acoords -- Peace!!~

Your link doesn't dispute anything that I said. If anything, it supports my position. This has nothing to do with morality, hell... it's international politics. Morality doesn't factor in.

What does factor in are the institutional commitments that are binding on both actors today, and that includes the recognition of Israel by the PLO. I have done quite a bit of work involving the PLO recently due to the late kerfuffle in the UNSC last year, spilling into this year, so I'm pretty up to date on what is going on with them.

 

[Lemon law]

As Usual, YediY assumes all the Palestinians are a single entity and like mindless robots, what one says is accepted by all. Hence his set of cherry picked statement have some validity to only JediY only based on a very flawed assumption. Israel is deeply divided politically, so is the USA, and so is every nation on earth.

Times change JediY, and the longer Israel stalls, the greater their probable fall. In 2010, Israel may have been able to get the Olmert plan, and now Israeli may now face the full assimilation of Palestinians with full voting rights.

As far as I am concerned, many of my predictions are coming to pass, granted far slower than expected, but Israel is getting really politically isolated at a ever increasing pace.

 

[Broheim]

I know you're misrepresenting what happened to slander me as a hypocrit, and dodging the question I asked you.

I'm not dodging your question, but I can't make an informed decision because I wasn't there, a blurry and shaky video is not enough for me to form a definetive opinion on that particular incident. BUT, if those were innocent civilians and the americans deliberately shot at what they knew to be civilians then that would be against the rules of war and they should be punished for their crimes.

but it's fucking funny that you'd acuse me of slander when this whole argument was instigated by your baseless attempt at painting me as a war criminal.

 

[kylebisme]

I'm not dodging your question, but I can't make an informed decision because I wasn't there, a blurry and shaky video is not enough for me to form a definetive opinion on that particular incident. BUT, if those were innocent civilians and the americans deliberately shot at what they knew to be civilians then that would be against the rules of war and they should be punished for their crimes.

So, as long as there is any question as to whether people are civilians or combatants, you don't see anything wrong with shooting at them?

but it's fucking funny that you'd acuse me of slander when this whole argument was instigated by your baseless attempt at painting me as a war criminal.

As far as I've always been considered, killing for "shits and giggles" is crime, be it in a war or otherwise. From that position, you painted yourself as a criminal to me when you said that is what you did.

 

[zsdersw]

Not really, no. But they might as well gain an advantage when their opponent is being stupid, right? Not taking advantage of your opponents stupidity is a silly thing to do.

Of course they're not really interested in peace. Any country that is locked in survival mode, like Israel, is not at all interested in peace. They're surrounded on all sides by countries that would prefer Israel to not exist.

 

[Broheim]

So, as long as there is any question as to whether people are civilians or combatants, you don't see anything wrong with shooting at them?

that would depend on a lot of factors and is something I'm not trained to decide unless I'm actually there...

As far as I've always been considered, killing for "shits and giggles" is crime, be it in a war or otherwise. From that position, you painted yourself as a criminal to me when you said that is what you did.

your opinion is not the law, and thank god for that otherwise we'd all be doomed...

 

[cybrsage]

Of course they're not really interested in peace. Any country that is locked in survival mode, like Israel, is not at all interested in peace. They're surrounded on all sides by countries that would prefer Israel to not exist.

I think they are interested in peace, but only a peace that ensures their survival. Being in a constant state of war (but not a hot war) also increases the changes of surival, but not as nicely as peace does.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I think they are interested in peace, but only a peace that ensures their survival. Being in a constant state of war (but not a hot war) also increases the changes of surival, but not as nicely as peace does.

That is correct! I cannot find the link presently but one of the previous expectations placed upon the Palestinians was that if there was a peace would they be able to guarantee that all violence would stop. Such as the rockets that are fired at Israel. In response the Palestinians said - NO!

 

[cybrsage]

That is correct! I cannot find the link presently but one of the previous expectations placed upon the Palestinians was that if there was a peace would they be able to guarantee that all violence would stop. Such as the rockets that are fired at Israel. In response the Palestinians said - NO!

I would expect an honest effort at least. It is impossible to stop individuals from doing bad things, but when they do not attempt to stop them and then never bother to find and punish them..well...