Neil deGrasse Tyson reboots Carl Sagan's "Cosmos"

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,797
572
126
I liked it, but I forgot how much I can't stand these extensive commercial breaks. Felt like there were as many commercials as there was show.

Well, people who were lucky enough to watch the original broadcast of the series saw it on PBS with less commercials.

It's now showing on a commercial channel and the commercials are a necessary compromise to get it on the air on Fox.


As for the content it's good that it's aimed at "8th graders" if a young kid or teenager catches the show and subsequently develops an interest in science even if he/she doesn't become a scientist then it's a good thing.

I'm sure as the next episodes are broadcast Cosmos will go far enough beyond basic general astronomy and science knowledge to calm people down.

......
 
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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
As for the content it's good that it's aimed at "8th graders" if a young kid or teenager catches the show and subsequently develops an interest in science even if he/she doesn't become a scientist then it's a good thing.

yep... the DVD's will probably be played by legions of lazy science teachers constantly over the course of the next decade.
 
May 13, 2009
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Yes all the info is already known by those of us that regularly watch these types of shows but so far imo this cosmos has a much cleaner feel to it. You can tell Fox put some money in it and it shows in the presentation, cgi, etc..
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,983
31,539
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Agree

Also I felt as if he was talking to a 2 year old.

If you go back and watch the landmark program produced by Carl Sagan and PBS, there were also tons of cartoons and graphics. Sagan was flying around in a hokey spacecraft as well.

The first episode should be a general summary of the series. If you guys noticed, you got snippets of astronomy, physics, biology, chemistry, etc. They covered the entire 15 or so billions of years of existence.

Each successive episode will be more focused on specific subjects, and should include more detail. This was only ever meant to be a broad portrait, to show why this stuff truly is fascinating to those that have never been exposed to it. Any of you that are already wowed by this, are scientists that study these things today, are doing what you are doing because of programs like this--because of Carl Sagan's original Cosmos.

PBS optioned for this but wanted strict control over the content. McFarlane approached Fox, who not only offered more monies, but also allowed total freedom for McFarlane, Tyson, and their team to put the show together. A great choice, really. Consider that competing at that hour, on NBC, was a rerun of The Voice.

This is a great move for Fox
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
How do I know not to watch it if I don't watch it? o_O:rolleyes:

What I am saying is you guys complain about how society, in general, doesn't understand science and are therefore are suspicious of it. When further attempts are made to making science more accessible to your average person, idiots start unfairly comparing Tyson to Sagan, and if that's not enough, they criticize the content with the series barely underway.

Just shut the hell up and be happy that science is being mainstreamed -- this is only a start.
 

pyonir

Lifer
Dec 18, 2001
40,856
321
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The spaceship is an homage to the original (sorry to be presumptuous, I'm just assuming you might not remember that from the original?). I thought that was kinda silly in the original as well, but it actually is a functional tool for teaching this and yes is aimed at certain viewers. Likewise I assume the animation was as well.

I figured it was a homage, but I've never seen the original (only a child when it came out, never cared much to search it out either). Like I said it was something I didn't particularly like, but not something that turns me away from the show.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,983
31,539
146
I figured it was a homage, but I've never seen the original (only a child when it came out, never cared much to search it out either). Like I said it was something I didn't particularly like, but not something that turns me away from the show.


It may seem a bit silly, but the spaceship device is used as an important tool in the show--matter, time, laws of physics do not exist in the spaceship, which allows you to explore all scales of reality without concern of being bound by the same laws.

Its the same type of thought experiment you get into in the classroom, and plenty of problems and analogies are brought up in higher level theory to address this problem.

The spaceship is similar to Schroedinger's cat, in my mind--maybe a reverse Schroedinger's cat (basically, what the cat is observing of the outside universe, from within the box)
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Re: my comment on the religious bit-

It seemed very obvious that the church was being portrayed as evil during their little skit. Past church, present church, whatever...I'm certainly not upset by it. It made me giggle.

But it's the kind of crap that will ruin the show for these dumb unwashed masses that everyone seems so concerned with. Why put the show on an imbecilic level if you're just going to do things like prod the religious folk with pointy sticks? They're just going to be even more sure of how your science is, in fact, heathen witchcraft.

Again, Brian Cox and the BBC struck a much better balance of 'everyone can understand' and 'actually interesting to those who are already somewhat familiar with these concepts.' I also like how they balanced CGI with practical, non-CGI analogies.
 

pyonir

Lifer
Dec 18, 2001
40,856
321
126
It may seem a bit silly, but the spaceship device is used as an important tool in the show--matter, time, laws of physics do not exist in the spaceship, which allows you to explore all scales of reality without concern of being bound by the same laws.

Oh, I get that...it doesn't make it any less cheesy, in the design of it and how it "flies" through the universe. :p

It reminds me of old, poorly done sci-fi when there was no computer graphics. But this one is done with computer graphics. lol.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
PBS optioned for this but wanted strict control over the content. McFarlane approached Fox, who not only offered more monies, but also allowed total freedom for McFarlane, Tyson, and their team to put the show together. A great choice, really. Consider that competing at that hour, on NBC, was a rerun of The Voice.

getting more pissed off at the way pbs is handling itself now. they are supposed to be a public service. not a commercial operation.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
What I am saying is you guys complain about how society, in general, doesn't understand science and are therefore are suspicious of it. When further attempts are made to making science more accessible to your average person, idiots start unfairly comparing Tyson to Sagan, and if that's not enough, they criticize the content with the series barely underway.

Just shut the hell up and be happy that science is being mainstreamed -- this is only a start.

If you want to catch people in a series the pilot needs to be better than it was. I watched it air live and watched it again today on DVR and Tyson's normal banter, what makes him the effective communicator has been replaced by baby talk. Probably if I had never watched shows with Tyson it would of been OK but as it was it was painful.

Now put that in your pipe and "shut the hell up."
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
getting more pissed off at the way pbs is handling itself now. they are supposed to be a public service. not a commercial operation.
You can't serve the public if you go out of business. And Congress is always looking for a reason to cut your funding to hasten that process.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,983
31,539
146
Oh, I get that...it doesn't make it any less cheesy, in the design of it and how it "flies" through the universe. :p

It reminds me of old, poorly done sci-fi when there was no computer graphics. But this one is done with computer graphics. lol.

You should really try and find the original with Sagan. the ship is very much lol.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
You can't serve the public if you go out of business. And Congress is always looking for a reason to cut your funding to hasten that process.

most of their money comes from donations.

and if no one wants to donate anymore than how are they going to operate.

how does giving amazon exclusivity keep pbs in business
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
If you want to catch people in a series the pilot needs to be better than it was. I watched it air live and watched it again today on DVR and Tyson's normal banter, what makes him the effective communicator has been replaced by baby talk. Probably if I had never watched shows with Tyson it would of been OK but as it was it was painful.

Now put that in your pipe and "shut the hell up."

The point is still clearly flying over your head. Most people know nothing of Tyson. I am assuming he is talking in such a manner because honestly it makes him come across as gentle, kind and intelligent. He doesn't need to use his hyperexcitable hyperbolic side for Cosmos.

Moreover, as has been stated and you keep ignoring this is not written for people like you and I who are well versed in science. This is for the millions of Americans and others around the world who know very little on these subjects. When viewed in this manner his mannerisms and the script are near perfect for an introductory episode.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
Let's just hope there's no wacky FOXy backlash from this show.
(Or maybe next month they'll have Kent Hovind do a "rebuttal." D:)

It'd be great to have something to inspire a fresh batch of people to move into the STEM fields.




yep... the DVD's will probably be played by legions of lazy science teachers constantly over the course of the next decade.
I honestly did prefer the pre-packaged videos over the old science textbooks we had, which talked about "future" missions which were by then already well on their way to their distant destinations.
 
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Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
If you want to catch people in a series the pilot needs to be better than it was. I watched it air live and watched it again today on DVR and Tyson's normal banter, what makes him the effective communicator has been replaced by baby talk. Probably if I had never watched shows with Tyson it would of been OK but as it was it was painful.

Now put that in your pipe and "shut the hell up."

You're clearly one of the idiots I'm referring to. When you're teaching someone to drive for the very first time, you take them to an empty parking lot -- you don't put them in rush-hour traffic on the 405 just because parking lots are "baby steps". :rolleyes:

As was stated, the show isn't for you...you're better off not watching it.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
You're clearly one of the idiots I'm referring to. When you're teaching someone to drive for the very first time, you take them to an empty parking lot -- you don't put them in rush-hour traffic on the 405 just because parking lots are "baby steps". :rolleyes:

You also don't put them in a powerwheels while wearing a helmet and an inexplicable pair of water wings.

You can make educational TV that is beautiful, fascinating, and mesmerizing to the 'educated' as well as the 'uneducated.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkjuIoCorTE

Not once does he say anything that is over any reasonable person'd head. He explains and defines things as he goes. If you didn't know anything of the things he said prior to him saying them, you feel smarter. If you did know that information, you still don't feel like you're being talked to like a child, and you can appreciate the 'cool' factor of what is being shown.

The 'Wonders...' series is like the 'spiritual successor' to Cosmos. Like some of the beloved video games that developers slaved over for years as 'unofficial' sequels to their older works. Meanwhile, 'Cosmos 2' is like something Electronic Arts churned out in three months because they still held the rights to original game's name/content.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Well Cosmos got a 2.9 rating across all of Fox's channels, which is 8.5 million viewers. I'm not sure how to take that. Even the addition of the simulcast puts it at the #2 show for that time slot, below a show about dead people coming back to life...
 
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SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,500
2,426
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Doesn't this guy have something like 20 Honorary Degrees?

17 from the wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson
Selected honorary doctorates


 
Mar 11, 2004
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I wouldn't call it perfect (but then I absolutely wouldn't call the original perfect either), but this show really rekindled that feeling from when I was young and I think that's who this show is for, and why the tone is the way it is.

Caught the first episode. WAY too fast paced. They should have picked one subject and stuck with it. I watched it with my daughter and she was completely lost by the time the calendar thing came around.

Most people don't understand that light travelling from objects will show that object as it was when the light first left it. You never see anything in real time...you're always looking into the past. They could have did a whole show on that first to get people up to speed on what coming later.

How old is your daughter? I wouldn't worry about her feeling lost, as long as that's not something that kills her curiosity. Likely the later episodes will explain it further and bring it back full circle, and so repeat viewing will be "a-ha" moments for her.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. This is more, hey there's this cool stuff out there here's some visualizations of it. This idea, the vastness of the cosmos, that seems so simple was once a huge idea that was so crazy that people were put to death over it. Then they're trying to get across the scale of time using the calendar analogy.

I believe they actually did touch on that a bit, but that's actually a pretty high minded concept. Literally everything you see is "in the past", but everything is relative, which is not an introductory topic, but is an important one as it is fundamental physics to our universe. The changes to our perception of time is one of the main things I think they were wanting to update (IIRC Sagan does talk about it, even mentions how gravity impacts it in the original, but there's quite a bit more they can say, for instance how we even measure time).

Re: my comment on the religious bit-

It seemed very obvious that the church was being portrayed as evil during their little skit. Past church, present church, whatever...I'm certainly not upset by it. It made me giggle.

But it's the kind of crap that will ruin the show for these dumb unwashed masses that everyone seems so concerned with. Why put the show on an imbecilic level if you're just going to do things like prod the religious folk with pointy sticks? They're just going to be even more sure of how your science is, in fact, heathen witchcraft.

Again, Brian Cox and the BBC struck a much better balance of 'everyone can understand' and 'actually interesting to those who are already somewhat familiar with these concepts.' I also like how they balanced CGI with practical, non-CGI analogies.

This isn't distortion of facts and whitewashing it to ignore would actually detract from the lesson. In fact, they actually sanitized it compared to what really happened so as to make it less about the Church's evils (which if you actually know history, the church did straight up evil Nazi level shit), plus, you seem to ignore how it wasn't just the Church (actually churches which you ignore as well), even Oxford, one of the most renowned institutions of learning in the world, he got the same treatment. They don't even idolize the guy, they point out that he was a victim of his own flaws, which were actually religious focused (he was in fact arguing religious theology). They even straight up say he wasn't even a scientist and really isn't a scientific figure. But, he played an important role because he questioned things and his ideas opened things for others later. He was just a normal guy with a guess, but eventually he was shown to be right. That whole part served as a lesson for understanding the basis of science. Question, or make a guess, and then test it. But, like they point out, he had not the tools to be able to investigate it, but that changed. Later people were able to, and they got similar treatment from religion, but as science, and our ability to support and prove our theories grew, people changed. That is the greater point, ideas can change as our ability to understand and study them change.

You also don't put them in a powerwheels while wearing a helmet and an inexplicable pair of water wings.

You can make educational TV that is beautiful, fascinating, and mesmerizing to the 'educated' as well as the 'uneducated.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkjuIoCorTE

Not once does he say anything that is over any reasonable person'd head. He explains and defines things as he goes. If you didn't know anything of the things he said prior to him saying them, you feel smarter. If you did know that information, you still don't feel like you're being talked to like a child, and you can appreciate the 'cool' factor of what is being shown.

The 'Wonders...' series is like the 'spiritual successor' to Cosmos. Like some of the beloved video games that developers slaved over for years as 'unofficial' sequels to their older works. Meanwhile, 'Cosmos 2' is like something Electronic Arts churned out in three months because they still held the rights to original game's name/content.

I don't even know what you're actually bitching about. The BBC shows (and other shows) are good, but your argument is fairly senseless mostly because other than the bitching about historical fact you don't seem to actually have an argument.