NBA : How good is Jason Kidd?

[slayer202]

well the nets didn't have to get to the finals throug the western bracket. but still, good argument. kenyon isn't ****** without kidd, but RJ is the man no matter what

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: slayer202
well the nets didn't have to get to the finals throug the western bracket. but still, good argument. kenyon isn't ****** without kidd, but RJ is the man no matter what

compared to Nowitski or Finley?

sorry, RJ just isn't in their class yet. may never be.

 

[slayer202]

i think he is in finley's class. not dirk. but i wasn't disagreeing with what you said, just that the nets had an easier road than the mavs.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: slayer202
i think he is in finley's class. not dirk. but i wasn't disagreeing with what you said, just that the nets had an easier road than the mavs.

cool

i wasn't trying to be argumentative. i just happen to think RJ is overrated.

this year, 2nd half he has started to show something but before this season, he never showed he was anything more than a shorter not as good defensive player KMart.

 

[Tig Ol Bitties]

Originally posted by: classy

You can talk all the trash you want. J Kidd is a good player, but he is not a HOF. Hell Kevin Johnson and Tim Hardaway were both better players than Kidd and neither one them are in HOF. Vince Carter has been a tremendous offensive player his entire career. I can't think of one NBA player he has ever played with that he made better. He's a really good player, but a HOF, and in the likes of a Stockton or Magic, I don't even want to sound ignorant, but if you think he's in that class your f'in fool and should turn your attention to NASCAR because you don't know sh!t about B-ball. And I am not trashing Kidd either, because he is tremendous player and has been a top notch player his career, but he's not elite, simple as that. And right now I'll take Nash, Iverson, Billups, Bibby, and Parker over Kidd right now. Clearly Iverson is 2 guard but has run the o with nicely these last two years. And all those players are better offensive players than Kidd as well.

These are the dumbest remarks Ive read in this thread. KJ and Hardaway couldnt hold a match let alone a candle to Kidd. I used to watch Bball religously during the 90's when they were all in their prime and KJ was a player that came and went. He didnt do anything significant with the Suns except make the All star team a couple times:roll:. Sure hes a better shooter than Kidd, but thats it, I never saw him being better at anything else, and he sure as hell doesnt make any team he is on better. Kidd brought the Mavericks back to NBA viewers attention when he first came into the league and his highlight passes are amazing. Mavericks were the worst team in the NBA in the early 90s and nobody broadcast their games. When Kidd came, that changed.

He completely changed the scene in New Jersey and should've been MVP the year the Lakers beat the Spurs in the finals (Duncan got it :roll: ), even Shaq announced on TV in the stadium during the post game acceptance speach that Kidd was the REAL MVP. Hardaway and KJ would never be considered for MVP because because they dont have that prescence of being a great player that can change a pathetic losing team to a winning one. Kidd clearly does, and this alone will give him the HOF entry because his porescence on a team is noticed, he is a huge factor. As for Hardaway, yea he "got Skeeeeels", but he is considered another came and went pg. Had a few excellent seasons, maybe made the all star game a couple times, had very liitle playoff experience, and is more of a shooter, and poof, hes gone...yea better than Kidd :roll:

Nash is the equivalent of the younger healthier Kidd, but Id still take Kidd because Nash got no defense. Kidd is a triple double expert, I wouldn't be surprised if he owned that record some day.
My conclusion is you're the one who knows nothing about Jason Kidd or what it takes to be a great player, simple as that.

 

[slayer202]

oh, and did you guys see kidd's triple double TODAY lol. only thing i dont like about them are they are usually no more than 12 or 13 points, and 10 or 11 boards/assists, but still impressive

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: Tig Ol Bitties
Nash is the equivalent of the younger healthier Kidd, but Id still take Kidd because Nash got no defense. Kidd is a triple double expert, I wouldn't be surprised if he owned that record some day.

i think that's giving Nash too much credit. Kidd in his prime > Nash now. imo, of course.

also, i don't think Kidd's catching Oscar Robertson's triple double mark.

*waits for NeoV to come and call us all idiots*

 

[Tig Ol Bitties]

Originally posted by: iamme

Originally posted by: Tig Ol Bitties
Nash is the equivalent of the younger healthier Kidd, but Id still take Kidd because Nash got no defense. Kidd is a triple double expert, I wouldn't be surprised if he owned that record some day.

i think that's giving Nash too much credit. Kidd in his prime > Nash now. imo, of course.

also, i don't think Kidd's catching Oscar Robertson's triple double mark.

*waits for NeoV to come and call us all idiots*

You know what you're right, Kidd would whoop Nash in his prime now that I think more about it, and yea reaching Oscars record is a stretch, but you never know, maybe his past injuries wont plague him so much and he'll be back to his old self again.

Edit: wow 181 triple doubles for Big O, yea, kidd wont get it.

 

[slayer202]

big O averaged a triple double one season, so its a tough record to be beat

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: slayer202
well the nets didn't have to get to the finals throug the western bracket. but still, good argument. kenyon isn't ****** without kidd, but RJ is the man no matter what

compared to Nowitski or Finley?

sorry, RJ just isn't in their class yet. may never be.

RJ, one of the most overrated players in the league today.
He is absolute crap without Kidd.

His shot and range is improving, but his clumsy dribble and lack of post moves prevents him from creating his own shot.

 

[Tig Ol Bitties]

Damn, 14 year career for Big "O", thats 13 triple doiubles a season...thats insane

 

[dafatha00]

His name is Ason Kidd. Jason Kidd without the J.

 

[slayer202]

how do you guys say RJ is overrated? he puts up very nice numbers, and I never hear people talk about him, and I am from new jersey. he has gotten better every year and he has never been the #1 option

20/7/4 and almost a steal a game isnt bad. 2.3 turnovers isnt bad either. and he shot 50% from the field...those are nice numbers

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: slayer202
how do you guys say RJ is overrated? he puts up very nice numbers, and I never hear people talk about him, and I am from new jersey. he has gotten better every year and he has never been the #1 option

i just moved out of NJ was a fan of the Nets, (guess now i'm a Sixers fan as i live in Yardley a suburb of philly more or less).

i lived in NJ for 7 yrs and i NEVER thought RJ was a star on that team.

as i posted earlier, the 2nd half of this year he has started to put up numbers but having Vince on one end and Kidd feeding them both the ball doesn't hurt his numbers.

RJ MIGHT be a star at some point in his career, but so far he is just an above average player.

 

[slayer202]

having kidd and vince on the team shadow him a bit though. how about this, what player would you compare him to in the league?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: slayer202
having kidd and vince on the team shadow him a bit though. how about this, what player would you compare him to in the league?

i'd take shawn marion over RJ right now.

again, he MIGHT become a star in this league, i'd have to see him put up numbers like he has 2nd half of the season for at least another season and a half before i consider him a star.

carmelo is probably a bit better than RJ.

 

[suicidalpigeon]

kidd might get a run for his money with lebrones making as much triple double as he is this season.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I remember when he played for Dallas. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, DWI and beating his wife....a really nice guy. :roll:

Im glad he left.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: Tig Ol Bitties

Originally posted by: classy

You can talk all the trash you want. J Kidd is a good player, but he is not a HOF. Hell Kevin Johnson and Tim Hardaway were both better players than Kidd and neither one them are in HOF. Vince Carter has been a tremendous offensive player his entire career. I can't think of one NBA player he has ever played with that he made better. He's a really good player, but a HOF, and in the likes of a Stockton or Magic, I don't even want to sound ignorant, but if you think he's in that class your f'in fool and should turn your attention to NASCAR because you don't know sh!t about B-ball. And I am not trashing Kidd either, because he is tremendous player and has been a top notch player his career, but he's not elite, simple as that. And right now I'll take Nash, Iverson, Billups, Bibby, and Parker over Kidd right now. Clearly Iverson is 2 guard but has run the o with nicely these last two years. And all those players are better offensive players than Kidd as well.

These are the dumbest remarks Ive read in this thread. KJ and Hardaway couldnt hold a match let alone a candle to Kidd. I used to watch Bball religously during the 90's when they were all in their prime and KJ was a player that came and went. He didnt do anything significant with the Suns except make the All star team a couple times:roll:. Sure hes a better shooter than Kidd, but thats it, I never saw him being better at anything else, and he sure as hell doesnt make any team he is on better. Kidd brought the Mavericks back to NBA viewers attention when he first came into the league and his highlight passes are amazing. Mavericks were the worst team in the NBA in the early 90s and nobody broadcast their games. When Kidd came, that changed.

He completely changed the scene in New Jersey and should've been MVP the year the Lakers beat the Spurs in the finals (Duncan got it :roll: ), even Shaq announced on TV in the stadium during the post game acceptance speach that Kidd was the REAL MVP. Hardaway and KJ would never be considered for MVP because because they dont have that prescence of being a great player that can change a pathetic losing team to a winning one. Kidd clearly does, and this alone will give him the HOF entry because his porescence on a team is noticed, he is a huge factor. As for Hardaway, yea he "got Skeeeeels", but he is considered another came and went pg. Had a few excellent seasons, maybe made the all star game a couple times, had very liitle playoff experience, and is more of a shooter, and poof, hes gone...yea better than Kidd :roll:

Nash is the equivalent of the younger healthier Kidd, but Id still take Kidd because Nash got no defense. Kidd is a triple double expert, I wouldn't be surprised if he owned that record some day.
My conclusion is you're the one who knows nothing about Jason Kidd or what it takes to be a great player, simple as that.

LOL better than Kevin Johnson, hahahahah what a laugh.

KJ for a career avg 17.9ppg, shot 49%, avg 9.1 assists a game. Had four straight years where he avg double digits in assists while avg over 20 points game. His greatness was over shadowed because Magic was playing then.

Tim Hardaway also avg over 17 a game 43% from the floor and 8.2 assists a game. Had two years straight where he avg over 21 a game and double digit assists. Both these players were SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS THAN JASON KIDD AND ADDED THE ASSISTS AS WELL.

For all your Kidd bs he has had only 2 years where he avg double digit assists. Hardaway had 3 and KJ had 4 straight. Kidd is a nice player, but he ain't great. Obviously in the 90's you didn't watch the NBA, dummy.

And neither one of them beat their wives either.

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: classy
LOL better than Kevin Johnson, hahahahah what a laugh.

KJ for a career avg 17.9ppg, shot 49%, avg 9.1 assists a game. Had four straight years where he avg double digits in assists while avg over 20 points game. His greatness was over shadowed because Magic was playing then.

Tim Hardaway also avg over 17 a game 43% from the floor and 8.2 assists a game. Had two years straight where he avg over 21 a game and double digit assists. Both these players were SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS THAN JASON KIDD AND ADDED THE ASSISTS AS WELL.

For all your Kidd bs he has had only 2 years where he avg double digit assists. Hardaway had 3 and KJ had 4 straight. Kidd is a nice player, but he ain't great. Obviously in the 90's you didn't watch the NBA, dummy.

And neither one of them beat their wives either.

whoa, you're statistical analysis is HORRIBLE.

you're comparing "seasons averaged over 10 assist per game" (KJ 4, Tim, 3, Kidd 2)? how about just comparing CAREER assist averages?

Kidd: 9.3
KJ: 9.1
Tim: 8.2

yes, Kidd isn't known for his shooting...but "SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS THAN JASON KIDD AND ADDED THE ASSISTS AS WELL"? career scoring averages:

Tim 17.7
KJ: 17.9
Kidd: 14.8

on average, a whopping 3 points per game less. i'd hardly call that SIGNIFICANT. i'm not calling Kidd a prolific scorer, but 3 ppg more isn't reason to call the SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS. i won't even bother posting rebounding averages, because Kidd pretty blows them away in that category (like 2X the rebounds per game).

basically, you're trying to say the other guys are better assist guys and MUCH better scorers. i contend that Kidd is actually the better assist guy and marginally a worse scorer. but with Kidd, i think you get a better rebounder and an overall better defender.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: iamme
whoa, you're statistical analysis is HORRIBLE.

you're comparing "seasons averaged over 10 assist per game" (KJ 4, Tim, 3, Kidd 2)? how about just comparing CAREER assist averages?

Kidd: 9.3
KJ: 9.1
Tim: 8.2

yes, Kidd isn't known for his shooting...but "SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS THAN JASON KIDD AND ADDED THE ASSISTS AS WELL"? career scoring averages:

Tim 17.7
KJ: 17.9
Kidd: 14.8

on average, a whopping 3 points per game less. i'd hardly call that SIGNIFICANT. i'm not calling Kidd a prolific scorer, but 3 ppg more isn't reason to call the SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS. i won't even bother posting rebounding averages, because Kidd pretty blows them away in that category (like 2X the rebounds per game).

basically, you're trying to say the other guys are better assist guys and MUCH better scorers. i contend that Kidd is actually the better assist guy and marginally a worse scorer. but with Kidd, i think you get a better rebounder and an overall better defender.

Those two players finished their careers. In the prime of their careers they avg over 20 a game. Unless Kidd retires without ever coming off the bench, when his career is over he'll avg probably down around 12-13 a game. Jason Kidd is a poor offensive player. And not only did these guys accomplish what Kidd has done with good assist totals but they could dominate a game offensively. Jason Kidd has been a brutal brutal offensive player his ENTIRE career. I watched one game in which he took 3 straight threes, two were air balls and the other hit only the back board. He has had many many games like that.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: iamme
whoa, you're statistical analysis is HORRIBLE.

you're comparing "seasons averaged over 10 assist per game" (KJ 4, Tim, 3, Kidd 2)? how about just comparing CAREER assist averages?

Kidd: 9.3
KJ: 9.1
Tim: 8.2

yes, Kidd isn't known for his shooting...but "SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS THAN JASON KIDD AND ADDED THE ASSISTS AS WELL"? career scoring averages:

Tim 17.7
KJ: 17.9
Kidd: 14.8

on average, a whopping 3 points per game less. i'd hardly call that SIGNIFICANT. i'm not calling Kidd a prolific scorer, but 3 ppg more isn't reason to call the SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYERS. i won't even bother posting rebounding averages, because Kidd pretty blows them away in that category (like 2X the rebounds per game).

basically, you're trying to say the other guys are better assist guys and MUCH better scorers. i contend that Kidd is actually the better assist guy and marginally a worse scorer. but with Kidd, i think you get a better rebounder and an overall better defender.

Those two players finished their careers. In the prime of their careers they avg over 20 a game. Unless Kidd retires without ever coming off the bench, when his career is over he'll avg probably down around 12-13 a game. Jason Kidd is a poor offensive player. And not only did these guys accomplish what Kidd has done with good assist totals but they could dominate a game offensively. Jason Kidd has been a brutal brutal offensive player his ENTIRE career. I watched one game in which he took 3 straight threes, two were air balls and the other hit only the back board. He has had many many games like that.

KJ's best years he had MUCH better teammates than JKidd EVER has had. EVER.

same with Tim Hardaway. At his peak he had all star players around him.

JKidd in NJ ONLY had RJ and KMart and with that he went to 3 Eastern Conference champpionships and won 2.

sorry, KJ had Barkley (all time legendary player)

Tim had Zo

name ONE player kidd played with even close to being in the caliber of those two players.

 

[classy]

Barkley got to PHO in 92. KJ's best years 3 straight were before Barkley got there. In NJ Kidd had Martin, Kittles, and Jefferson. That is a pretty damn good supporting cast. When Kidd was in PHO he played with KJ, Nash, Finley, Horry, Cassell. When he was in Dal, he had Mashburn and Jim Jackson. Man please, J Kidd has played with some damn good b-ball players.

 

[ThePresence]

RJ is not yet a star, but he's one of the most exciting players to watch.

 

[BrokenVisage]

I don't know if anyone said it yet, but Kidd had yet another triple-double tonight. It's amazing how many of those he gets, that's why I think he's such a good, unique player for today's game.