NBA : How good is Jason Kidd?

[bigrash]

I think he definitely belongs in the HOF

 

[Azndude2190]

IMO Chris Paul will surpass both Nash and Kidd in the near future.

My top 5 PG rank:
1)Nash
2)Kidd
3)Parker
4)Paul
5)Bibby

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
I think he's one of the best 3 point guards still playing, should get into the Hall of Fame when all is said and done.

I agree with the fact that J-Kidd is among the elite at PG.But I dont know about HOF material.He hasnt won any rings or done anything spetacular in individual achievements to garner the "award".

eh?

taken from NBA.com:

# Ranks 9th on the NBA's all-time assists list with 7,283
# 67 career triple-doubles, 29 as a Net
# 4th on the NBA all-time lists for assists per game (9.3)
# Named All-NBA First Team in 2003-04, 2001-02, 2000-01, 1999-00 and 1998-99
# Named All-NBA Second Team in 2002-03
# Named First Team All-Defensive Team in 2003-04, 2001-02, 2000-01 and 1998-99
# Named Second Team All-Defensive Team in 2004-05, 2002-03 and 1999-00.
# 2003 USA Basketball Men's Senior National Team
# Seven-time NBA All-Star
# Became only the fourth player in NBA history to lead the league in assists three-straight seasons - 1999-01 (John Stockton, 1988-96; Oscar Robertson, 1964-66; Bob Cousy, 1953-60)
# Won a gold medal in the 2000 Sydney Olympics.
# First Maverick to start an All-Star Game (1996).
# Became the sixth fastest NBA player to record 5000 career assists (531 games), as he finished with three points, 15 assists and eight rebounds in 44 minutes at Dallas on 1/21/2002
# Set the Nets all-time single season triple-double mark (8), and in doing so, became the Nets all-time leader in triple-doubles
# Set the Nets all-time single season assist mark by recording 808 assists
# Became first Nets player ever to win ?Eastern Conference Player of the Month? for November by averaging 13.3 points, 9.6 assists, 7.6 rebounds and 1.8 steals in leading the Nets to a 10-5 record and their best start in franchise history
# Recorded first career playoff triple-double with 22 points, 10 rebounds and personal playoff-high 16 assists in Game 4 against the Lakers in the 2000 Western Conference Semifinals
# Exploded for career-high 43 points at Houston on 3/29/01
# Topped 700 assists and 500 rebounds in the same season for the second time in 1997-98, joining Robertson and Magic Johnson (six times each) as the only players in NBA history to do so more than once
# Was named 1994-95 NBA co-Rookie of the Year (with Grant Hill) and was a unanimous selection to the 1994-95 NBA All-Rookie First Team
# Won Naismith Award as nation's top high school player after senior season at St. Joseph of Notre Dame (Alameda, CA), averaging 25.0 points, 10.0 assists, 7.0 rebounds and 7.0 steals
# Parade and USA Today High School Player of the Year
# Played in the McDonald's High School All-American Game

i'd take Kidd over Nash.

Nash is a liability on defense. for all the assists he has, he gives up so many points on defense. if Kidd had remained healthy his entire career, he'd be a top 2 PG in the NBA right now, imo. right now, i think chauncey would be #1 because of his ability to defend, score, AND create shots for others.

Originally posted by: UncleWai

I don't know. Steve Nash is stealing a lot of Kidd's thunder. Crazy passes, crazy layups, deadly three points, Nash just seem to do a notch better than Kidd at everything.

except defense.

 

[iamme]

i think Kidd's post-surgery career has tarnished his image among fans.

btw, Kidd's been to the NBA Finals twice to Nash's zero. count that as another thing that Kidd>Nash.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Kidd made KMart a better player and he makes Richard Jefferson a better player.

Kmart has putting up the same numbers the last two years in Denver without Kidd. And Jefferson has only played with Kidd so I don't know about that. And I am not saying he's garbage because he is not. But this HOF stuff is a bit over the top. There have been better players than Kidd and there are better players now than him as well.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Jason Kidd could have joined Tim Duncan and won a couple of championships. That he stayed in New Jersey won't be held against him. He's an amazing point guard. A step above Stockton and Zeke in overall effectiveness.

Jason Kidd is no where near the point guard caliber of John Stockton. Really good player, HOF, ehhhh don't know about that. Streaky offensive player and is a below average defender. He can run a fast break with the best of them, but is not a break down the defense type pg. He doesn't create shots for other players, like a Nash or Iverson. Top 20 player, maybe, but I don't think he's a HOF player.

ROFL Below average Defender ?
Kidd is one of the better defenders in the league.
Kidd is a pass first point guard he doesn't have to be an offensive threat. Nets have 3 scoring options now. Carter, Kristic and Jefferson.
He doesn't create shots for other players ?
You obviously never watched JKidd play. He gets his players easy shots and makes everyone on the team better.

Lay off the crack

You can talk all the trash you want. J Kidd is a good player, but he is not a HOF. Hell Kevin Johnson and Tim Hardaway were both better players than Kidd and neither one them are in HOF. Vince Carter has been a tremendous offensive player his entire career. I can't think of one NBA player he has ever played with that he made better. He's a really good player, but a HOF, and in the likes of a Stockton or Magic, I don't even want to sound ignorant, but if you think he's in that class your f'in fool and should turn your attention to NASCAR because you don't know sh!t about B-ball. And I am not trashing Kidd either, because he is tremendous player and has been a top notch player his career, but he's not elite, simple as that. And right now I'll take Nash, Iverson, Billups, Bibby, and Parker over Kidd right now. Clearly Iverson is 2 guard but has run the o with nicely these last two years. And all those players are better offensive players than Kidd as well.

you saying Kidd is not a HOF player in itself is ignorant.
You must not watch basketball.
You underrating Kidd's defense, his ability to give his players easy points.
Kidd will be a lock for the HOF
Again you're spouting about Kidd's offensive abilities. He's an average scorer.
But Kidd's most effective in making the players around him better.
It seems like your complaint is that Kidd isn't an offensive threat like the other Pg's you listed.
It's funny Kidd shut down both Billups and Nash consecutively. Below average defender ?

Look around the league, where the point guards are the offensive threat for their respective teams. They've done absolutely nothing.

Baron Davis ?
Bibby ? They're barely in the playoff hunt, althought I think they'll make it. They're only in the hunt because of Artest. If they still had Peja they probably wouldn't even be in the playoff hunt.
AI ? their team has been absolute garbage Who cares if AI scores 30+ a night ?
Marbury ?

 

[slayer202]

Originally posted by: classy


Jason Kidd is no where near the point guard caliber of John Stockton. Really good player, HOF, ehhhh don't know about that. Streaky offensive player and is a below average defender. He can run a fast break with the best of them, but is not a break down the defense type pg. He doesn't create shots for other players, like a Nash or Iverson. Top 20 player, maybe, but I don't think he's a HOF player.

ok this is all i read up to in this thread, but you are a complete moron. kidd is probably a HOF player, and he has been all defense many times, even though this late in his career he isn't great. he doesn't create shots for other players? this might be the dumbest comment I have ever seen. you know nothing about basketball. I do not like kidd much, but he creates shots better than anyone in the league, eve nash. you just said iverson is better at it? thats funny....

 

[PlatinumGold]

am i missing something? since when has the HOF been such an exclusive place that players of JKidds ability ton't get in?

JKidd is the single reason why the NJ Nets went to 3 straight Eastern Conference Championships. JKidd is the primary reason they will be a major factor in the playoffs again this year.

any time a player has that type of impact on a season, they are a great player. for JKidd to have been that kind of factor for the nets for the last 6 yrs, that makes him a easy candidate for HOF.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: slayer202

Originally posted by: classy


Jason Kidd is no where near the point guard caliber of John Stockton. Really good player, HOF, ehhhh don't know about that. Streaky offensive player and is a below average defender. He can run a fast break with the best of them, but is not a break down the defense type pg. He doesn't create shots for other players, like a Nash or Iverson. Top 20 player, maybe, but I don't think he's a HOF player.

ok this is all i read up to in this thread, but you are a complete moron. kidd is probably a HOF player, and he has been all defense many times, even though this late in his career he isn't great. he doesn't create shots for other players? this might be the dumbest comment I have ever seen. you know nothing about basketball. I do not like kidd much, but he creates shots better than anyone in the league, eve nash. you just said iverson is better at it? thats funny....

i think he meant to say Nash or AI will draw double teams because of their scoring and thereby allowing them to create shots for other teams. JKidd doesn't do this.

but that just reminds us of just how amazing JKidds ability to pass really is, he averages more assists than AI without having AI's ability to score. hmmmm.

 

[Azndude2190]

Allen Iverson is a SG.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: isekii


I really don't wanna get into an arguement over J Kidd because I like him a lot. I don't know if he's a HOF player and he is not even in the same zip code of a Stockton or Magic. It is clear your a big fan of his and I can respect that, but your judgements are based on being a fan of the player. But its all good.

 

[iamme]

btw, just for kicks, Kidd vs Nash career stats:

Nash: 13.5 pts, 7.1 asts, 2.8 reb, 0.8 stl, 47.7% FG, 89.7 FT, 42% 3pt

Kidd: 14.7 pts, 9.2 asts, 6.5 reb, 2.1 stl, 40.2% FG, 77.9% FT, 33.2% 3pt

Nash is over hyped, imo. dude's a great passer, but i'd take Kidd over Nash, even with Kidd's decline because of his surgery. i don't care if Kidd can't shoot like Nash, Kidd's an asset on defense, rather than a liability like Nash. that makes Kidd a much more all around player than Nash, imo. i know this isn't a kidd vs nash thread, but i'm surprised wheni see people say they'd rather have nash than kidd.

 

[Azndude2190]

How old is Nash and Kidd?

I know there both over 30 but...Nash to me, seems more "lively"...Nash can out speed Kidd.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
How old is Nash and Kidd?

I know there both over 30 but...Nash to me, seems more "lively"...Nash can out speed Kidd.

What does that got to do with anything ?
I can say Kidd can shut down Nash.
Kidd can post up Nash.

What are you getting at ?

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
How old is Nash and Kidd?

I know there both over 30 but...Nash to me, seems more "lively"...Nash can out speed Kidd.

even though Kidd doesn't seem as quick as Nash, he's still VERY fast at his position. that's a reason he's one of the best fast break PG's in the NBA.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
How old is Nash and Kidd?

I know there both over 30 but...Nash to me, seems more "lively"...Nash can out speed Kidd.

What does that got to do with anything ?
I can say Kidd can shut down Nash.
Kidd can post up Nash.

What are you getting at ?

Nothing.I just wanted to mention...what other failed to mention...which is the speed/movement of the two players.

BTW how exactly are you to defend a player one-on-one when a player is faster than you?

 

[Skunkwourk]

Originally posted by: UncleWai
I don't know. Steve Nash is stealing a lot of Kidd's thunder. Crazy passes, crazy layups, deadly three points, Nash just seem to do a notch better than Kidd at everything.

I would have to agree, Nash definitely deserved MVP and he definitely makes the players around him better.

 

[iamme]

i'm not even convinced that Nash is faster than Kidd.

Kidd is damn fast.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: iamme
i'm not even convinced that Nash is faster than Kidd.

Kidd is damn fast.

He's still one of the fastest going up and down the court with the ball in his hand.

I think it's gonna be Nets vs Pistons again for the ECF.
Miami has Shaq and Dwade, but the other players on their team is not consistent.
Their record is horrid against playoff bound teams.

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: iamme
i'm not even convinced that Nash is faster than Kidd.

Kidd is damn fast.

He's still one of the fastest going up and down the court with the ball in his hand.

I think it's gonna be Nets vs Pistons again for the ECF.
Miami has Shaq and Dwade, but the other players on their team is not consistent.
Their record is horrid against playoff bound teams.

miami is 2-12 vs the "top" teams in the NBA. if that isn't a "pretender" in the NBA, i don't know what is.

but yeah, i think Kidd's quickness is deceiving, because he doesn't dribble all over the place like Nash does.

 

[ThePresence]

Whoever said Kidd doesn't make the players around him better is either a moron or doesn't watch alot of basketball.
Whoever said Kidd doesn't create shots for other players is either a moron or doesn't watch alot of basketball.

 

[slayer202]

kidd is probably just as fast as nash, atleast we was a year or 2 ago and in his prime. and kidd is a much better orchestrator, if i can steal a trademark of walt frazier, than nash. putting iverson into that conversation is just a joke.

look at everyone on the nets. they all talk about kidd like he is a god. they know he makes them ALOT better. look at vince and what he has done with the nets vs. what he was doing on the raptors....he actually tries once in a while...and look what kenyon did on the nets vs. what he ISN'T doing on the nuggets. hell, kidd got brian scalabrine 15 mill for 3 years and the dude SUCKS and barely plays on the celtics lol

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Whoever said Kidd doesn't make the players around him better is either a moron or doesn't watch alot of basketball.
Whoever said Kidd doesn't create shots for other players is either a moron or doesn't watch alot of basketball.

QFT x 1000000

classy you don't know anything. saying kidd doesn't make his teammates better...funny. look at vince's last few years in toronto. tim hardaway and KJ might have been better scorers, but i'm sure their assists and boards are nothing compared to jkidd, and they couldn't lead a team like him.

BTW, this is coming from a guy who dislikes jkidd

 

[UncleWai]

One thing is true though, both Kidd and Nash make a lot of half-ass becomes rich millionaires. K-mart, Richardson, Joe Johnson, q-rich.
I think Kidd playing in the weak Eastern conference really hurt his reputation.

I would take John stockton as the best pure point guard though. His plain dirty and fundamental game is unmatched by any point guard. The pick and hold, 20foot jumpers were just ungodly.

 

[Juno]

not mentioning jkidd as a HOF material? are you kidding me...look at john stockton, he hasn't WIN any rings!!!

jkidd definitely belongs to HOF for all i care.

'nuff said.

 

[PlatinumGold]

look at it this way.

Kidd with RJ and KMart did better than

Nash with Dirk Nowitski and Finley

ya, nash is better than kidd for sure. :roll: