Mythbusters to take on "the plane and the treadmill" conundrum?

[jimbob200521]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down
Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

So you believe the plane will not take off?

Ok, if so, tell me this; how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?

My theory is simple if the plane moving forward cause the wheels to roll. Rolling the wheels backwards cause the plane to go backwards. All the thrust goes towards accelerating the wheels on the treadmill.

Theoretically, your theory is fine...if the plane were to get its movement from the wheels. But it does not. The wheels do nothing but prevent the plane from scraping on the ground. The jets push the plane forward via thrust, and when this is done, the wheels spin freely against the ground.

Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Say you stand on a treadmill with roller skates on and a fvcking rocket on your back. You set the rocket off, and at the same time the treadmill moves at the speed you are. What happens? Do you move forward or stay in one spot?

Screw you're "leave stupid analogies" statement, answer that question. If you say you will stay in one spot, you do not know what thrust and force are.

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place. Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Your reply to my question is my case in point. I'm done.

Oh, and you never answered my question of "how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?"

By spining the wheels backwards.

That still doesn't answer my question. How does the treadmill counter the T - H - R -U -S -T provided by the planes jets. Thrust pushes against air, not the ground.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: ultimatebob

Originally posted by: loic2003

Originally posted by: Phokus
can someone explain the conundrum plz?

You have a large treadmill/conveyor belt. It matches the speed of wheels, so if you put a car (or any vehicle that moves by physically turning it's wheels) and drove forward at 10mph, the mill would automatically move at 10mph in the opposite direction, so viewing the car from the side would show that the car doesn't actually move anywhere dispite it's wheels turning.

Then you take an airplane, and put that on the conveyor. Some idiots couldn't figure that planes use thrust to move, so wheel speed is irrelevant (think planes with skids for landing on snow or water). As the thrust of the plane moved it forward, the conveyor would try to keep up, but would always be slower than the aircraft's wheels since the plane is moving forward. Theoretically, the conveyor speed would increase (exponentially?) until the aircraft took off.

It really highlighted some serious idiots who thought planes had powered wheels or that the speed of the wheels made a difference to the thrust of the aircraft (bearing resistance has been ignored in this example).

Sounds good in theory, but I still doubt that they'll be able to get the plane to take off. The whole idea is just too impractical to work... If it did, airports would have short treadmill runways to save space.

no they wouldnt. think of the cost of such a thing. it is far cheaper to have a longer runway so they can takeoff.

More importantly, planes need to land. Good luck landing on a conveyor belt.

Doesn't matter. It's just as easy. Now once you account for friction/stiffness in the wheels, I think the initial impact will hurt like a b!tch and might rip the wheels off, but if you ignore that kinda friction in the axles, which is what we do when we assume the plane can take off, the landing should be exactly the same...

Take physics 100.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: jimbob200521
Not the prettiest, but you guys get the point.

Does this rocket take off?

there doesnt seem to be any fuel in it, also it appears to be cut in half.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down
Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

So you believe the plane will not take off?

Ok, if so, tell me this; how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?

My theory is simple if the plane moving forward cause the wheels to roll. Rolling the wheels backwards cause the plane to go backwards. All the thrust goes towards accelerating the wheels on the treadmill.

Theoretically, your theory is fine...if the plane were to get its movement from the wheels. But it does not. The wheels do nothing but prevent the plane from scraping on the ground. The jets push the plane forward via thrust, and when this is done, the wheels spin freely against the ground.

Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Say you stand on a treadmill with roller skates on and a fvcking rocket on your back. You set the rocket off, and at the same time the treadmill moves at the speed you are. What happens? Do you move forward or stay in one spot?

Screw you're "leave stupid analogies" statement, answer that question. If you say you will stay in one spot, you do not know what thrust and force are.

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place. Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Your reply to my question is my case in point. I'm done.

Oh, and you never answered my question of "how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?"

By spining the wheels backwards.

That still doesn't answer my question. How does the treadmill counter the T - H - R -U -S -T provided by the planes jets. Thrust pushes against air, not the ground.

The convery belt applies a force to the wheels the wheels apply a force to the plane. There force applied to the plane counters the thrust from an engine. You do know thrust is the same as force and apply a force anywhere on the plane is the same as applying it anywhere else.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down
Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

So you believe the plane will not take off?

Ok, if so, tell me this; how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?

My theory is simple if the plane moving forward cause the wheels to roll. Rolling the wheels backwards cause the plane to go backwards. All the thrust goes towards accelerating the wheels on the treadmill.

Theoretically, your theory is fine...if the plane were to get its movement from the wheels. But it does not. The wheels do nothing but prevent the plane from scraping on the ground. The jets push the plane forward via thrust, and when this is done, the wheels spin freely against the ground.

Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Say you stand on a treadmill with roller skates on and a fvcking rocket on your back. You set the rocket off, and at the same time the treadmill moves at the speed you are. What happens? Do you move forward or stay in one spot?

Screw you're "leave stupid analogies" statement, answer that question. If you say you will stay in one spot, you do not know what thrust and force are.

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place. Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Your reply to my question is my case in point. I'm done.

Oh, and you never answered my question of "how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?"

By spining the wheels backwards.

That still doesn't answer my question. How does the treadmill counter the T - H - R -U -S -T provided by the planes jets. Thrust pushes against air, not the ground.

With no relative motion, a commercial plane, and most military aircraft, cannot take off.

Depending on which way you look at it, the plane is either moving on a treadmill 2 miles long, or is being held in place by resistance from the wheels on the treadmill.

If the plane moves, it can take off.

If the plane is stationary, even at full power it wont have any lift.

 

[MasonLuke]

kids these days....

Its time to move one. THE PLANE WILL NOT FLY.

If you put this much effort in finding a girlfriend, its possible you can get one.
Let you right arm rest, its significantly bigger than your left.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place.

How can the treadmill be moving, matching the speed of the plane, and yet the plane not move?

Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Please tell me if this correctly represents your counter-argument. If it does not, please explain in detail where yours differs:

1.) The treadmill matches the speed of the plane, in the reverse direction.
2.) If the plane moves at 45 mph, then the treadmill moves at -45 mph
3.) If #2 is the case, then the plane moves at 0 mph.

Is that accurate?

 

[jimbob200521]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down
Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

So you believe the plane will not take off?

Ok, if so, tell me this; how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?

My theory is simple if the plane moving forward cause the wheels to roll. Rolling the wheels backwards cause the plane to go backwards. All the thrust goes towards accelerating the wheels on the treadmill.

Theoretically, your theory is fine...if the plane were to get its movement from the wheels. But it does not. The wheels do nothing but prevent the plane from scraping on the ground. The jets push the plane forward via thrust, and when this is done, the wheels spin freely against the ground.

Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Say you stand on a treadmill with roller skates on and a fvcking rocket on your back. You set the rocket off, and at the same time the treadmill moves at the speed you are. What happens? Do you move forward or stay in one spot?

Screw you're "leave stupid analogies" statement, answer that question. If you say you will stay in one spot, you do not know what thrust and force are.

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place. Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Your reply to my question is my case in point. I'm done.

Oh, and you never answered my question of "how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?"

By spining the wheels backwards.

That still doesn't answer my question. How does the treadmill counter the T - H - R -U -S -T provided by the planes jets. Thrust pushes against air, not the ground.

The convery belt applies a force to the wheels the wheels apply a force to the plane. There force applied to the plane counters the thrust from an engine. You do know thrust is the same as force and apply a force anywhere on the plane is the same as applying it anywhere else.

How are you applying force to the plane through the wheels? The wheels are there to eliminate any outside force from acting on the plane to prevent it from moving, so why all of a sudden are the wheels able to stop the plane?

 

[MasonLuke]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down
Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

So you believe the plane will not take off?

Ok, if so, tell me this; how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?

My theory is simple if the plane moving forward cause the wheels to roll. Rolling the wheels backwards cause the plane to go backwards. All the thrust goes towards accelerating the wheels on the treadmill.

Theoretically, your theory is fine...if the plane were to get its movement from the wheels. But it does not. The wheels do nothing but prevent the plane from scraping on the ground. The jets push the plane forward via thrust, and when this is done, the wheels spin freely against the ground.

Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Say you stand on a treadmill with roller skates on and a fvcking rocket on your back. You set the rocket off, and at the same time the treadmill moves at the speed you are. What happens? Do you move forward or stay in one spot?

Screw you're "leave stupid analogies" statement, answer that question. If you say you will stay in one spot, you do not know what thrust and force are.

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place. Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Your reply to my question is my case in point. I'm done.

Oh, and you never answered my question of "how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?"

By spining the wheels backwards.

That still doesn't answer my question. How does the treadmill counter the T - H - R -U -S -T provided by the planes jets. Thrust pushes against air, not the ground.

With no relative motion, a commercial plane, and most military aircraft, cannot take off.

Depending on which way you look at it, the plane is either moving on a treadmill 2 miles long, or is being held in place by resistance from the wheels on the treadmill.

If the plane moves, it can take off.

If the plane is stationary, even at full power it wont have any lift.

Exactly. but since the treadmill counters forward movement of the wheels, it its stationary, thus will not take off.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: jimbob200521

Originally posted by: smack Down
Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

So you believe the plane will not take off?

Ok, if so, tell me this; how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?

My theory is simple if the plane moving forward cause the wheels to roll. Rolling the wheels backwards cause the plane to go backwards. All the thrust goes towards accelerating the wheels on the treadmill.

Theoretically, your theory is fine...if the plane were to get its movement from the wheels. But it does not. The wheels do nothing but prevent the plane from scraping on the ground. The jets push the plane forward via thrust, and when this is done, the wheels spin freely against the ground.

Anyone wishing to show the plane can take off or the question is invalid under the assumption that the treadmill matches the speed of the plane relative to the treadmill please just leave out any crappy analogies and write the equations for the interaction between the wheels, treadmill and plane. Then show that the force on the plane via the wheels is bounded anything else is just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Say you stand on a treadmill with roller skates on and a fvcking rocket on your back. You set the rocket off, and at the same time the treadmill moves at the speed you are. What happens? Do you move forward or stay in one spot?

Screw you're "leave stupid analogies" statement, answer that question. If you say you will stay in one spot, you do not know what thrust and force are.

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place. Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Your reply to my question is my case in point. I'm done.

Oh, and you never answered my question of "how does the treadmill counter the thrust that the jets/propeller provide?"

By spining the wheels backwards.

That still doesn't answer my question. How does the treadmill counter the T - H - R -U -S -T provided by the planes jets. Thrust pushes against air, not the ground.

The convery belt applies a force to the wheels the wheels apply a force to the plane. There force applied to the plane counters the thrust from an engine. You do know thrust is the same as force and apply a force anywhere on the plane is the same as applying it anywhere else.

How are you applying force to the plane through the wheels? The wheels are there to eliminate any outside force from acting on the plane to prevent it from moving, so why all of a sudden are the wheels able to stop the plane?

Because you are moving them in the opposite direction.

 

[jimbob200521]

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
kids these days....

Its time to move one. THE PLANE WILL NOT FLY.

If you put this much effort in finding a girlfriend, its possible you can get one.
Let you right arm rest, its significantly bigger than your left.

How old are you (not that we're going to get a serious answer...)?

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
kids these days....

Its time to move one. THE PLANE WILL NOT FLY.

If you put this much effort in finding a girlfriend, its possible you can get one.
Let you right arm rest, its significantly bigger than your left.

Note that given a snow field you can replace a airplanes wheels with skis, and the plane takes off. You can't replace a cars wheels with skis. You can also replace a planes wheels with floats and takeoff from water. You're still wrong - even when you type in all caps.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Because you are moving them in the opposite direction.

No, you're not. The treadmill applies a force to the wheels in a direction opposite to the thrust of the engines, but that doesn't mean the wheels move in the direction of the treadmill's force.

Just as a bit of an object lesson... can you supply any links that corroborate your claims?

Do you have any idea how many independent links I can supply that support mine?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
kids these days....

Its time to move one. THE PLANE WILL NOT FLY.

If you put this much effort in finding a girlfriend, its possible you can get one.
Let you right arm rest, its significantly bigger than your left.

Note that given a snow field you can replace a airplanes wheels with skis, and the plane takes off. You can't replace a cars wheels with skis. You can also replace a planes wheels with floats and takeoff from water. You're still wrong - even when you type in all caps.

There is a big difference between wheels and skies. Wheel require force to give them angular acceleration skies do not. So please leave your stupid and wrong analogies at the door.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: smack Down

Assuming the treadmill matches your speed then yes you stay in place.

How can the treadmill be moving, matching the speed of the plane, and yet the plane not move?

Like I said leave your stupid analogies at the door we all understand the question. You need equations and only equations to show you are right. Which you are not.

Please tell me if this correctly represents your counter-argument. If it does not, please explain in detail where yours differs:

1.) The treadmill matches the speed of the plane, in the reverse direction.
2.) If the plane moves at 45 mph, then the treadmill moves at -45 mph
3.) If #2 is the case, then the plane moves at 0 mph.

Is that accurate?

Well?

 

[jimbob200521]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
kids these days....

Its time to move one. THE PLANE WILL NOT FLY.

If you put this much effort in finding a girlfriend, its possible you can get one.
Let you right arm rest, its significantly bigger than your left.

Note that given a snow field you can replace a airplanes wheels with skis, and the plane takes off. You can't replace a cars wheels with skis. You can also replace a planes wheels with floats and takeoff from water. You're still wrong - even when you type in all caps.

There is a big difference between wheels and skies. Wheel require force to give them angular acceleration skies do not. So please leave your stupid and wrong analogies at the door.

Yes, there is a big difference between wheels and skies, but both are on the plane to do the same job; eliminate friction between the ground and the plane.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: smack Down

Because you are moving them in the opposite direction.

No, you're not. The treadmill applies a force to the wheels in a direction opposite to the thrust of the engines, but that doesn't mean the wheels move in the direction of the treadmill's force.

Just as a bit of an object lesson... can you supply any links that corroborate your claims?

Do you have any idea how many independent links I can supply that support mine?

Your right move was a poor chose of words.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
This is the actual question, i did not write this:


?Imagine a plane is sitting on a massive conveyor belt, as wide and as long as a runway. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels, moving in the opposite direction. Can the plane take off?"



Designed to EXACTLY match the speed of the wheels = no friction.

Kids, be proud of yourselves, you and all the ATOT crew PROVED the plane wont fly.


/thread

As I explained, that formulation of the problem is incoherent. The only reasonable interpretation is that the conveyor matches the speed of the plane. Or, if you want to be pedantic (and it seems you do), it doesn't stipulate the rotational speed of the wheels. The "speed of the wheels" must therefore obviously denote the speed of the axles relative to the ground, which is no different than the ground speed of the plane.

That doesn't also change the fact that the majority of the various formulations of the problem stipulate the coherent scenario of the conveyor matching the plane speed.

You still fail.

No comment?

Well?

 

[MasonLuke]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: MasonLuke
kids these days....

Its time to move one. THE PLANE WILL NOT FLY.

If you put this much effort in finding a girlfriend, its possible you can get one.
Let you right arm rest, its significantly bigger than your left.

Note that given a snow field you can replace a airplanes wheels with skis, and the plane takes off. You can't replace a cars wheels with skis. You can also replace a planes wheels with floats and takeoff from water. You're still wrong - even when you type in all caps.

goodwork kid, you just changed the facts to suit your needs. stick to the program.
plane, wheel and treadmill.

 

[kthroyer]

I have a question for the physics experts out there. If you took an airplane and suspended it in air, lets say by a superstrong thread, and spun the wheels of the airplane backwards at a high rpm. What would the airplane do?

Would it:

Move backwards

or

Move forward

or

Not move anywhere.

How would the spinning wheels act on the airplane?

Is this the force that smackdown is saying would keep the airplane from moving forward? I really would like to know.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

To both Mason and SmackDown:

Can either of you supply any links that corroborate your claims?

Do you have any idea how many independent links I can supply that support the obvious conclusion that the plane will take off?

What do you make of that?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Garth
To both Mason and SmackDown:

Can either of you supply any links that corroborate your claims?

Do you have any idea how many independent links I can supply that support the obvious conclusion that the plane will take off?

What do you make of that?

Lol I can go edit Wikipedia if you want. Links are pointless because I bet they all cover the other interpretation of the question.

 

[amish]

Originally posted by: Garth
To both Mason and SmackDown:

Can either of you supply any links that corroborate your claims?

Do you have any idea how many independent links I can supply that support the obvious conclusion that the plane will take off?

What do you make of that?

links to facts on an internet forum to back up bullshit claims?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[MasonLuke]

Originally posted by: Garth
To both Mason and SmackDown:

Can either of you supply any links that corroborate your claims?

Do you have any idea how many independent links I can supply that support the obvious conclusion that the plane will take off?

What do you make of that?

Garth it doesnt matter how many links you can provide, because if its written by kids like you, its not worth a cent. remember when people thought the world was flat and only 1 said it was round?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Garth
To both Mason and SmackDown:

Can either of you supply any links that corroborate your claims?

Do you have any idea how many independent links I can supply that support the obvious conclusion that the plane will take off?

What do you make of that?

Lol I can go edit Wikipedia if you want. Links are pointless because I bet they all cover the other interpretation of the question.

So the answer is no, then.

What "other" interpretation? There is only 1 coherent interpretation. Also, realize that implicit in your statement is the concession that there is at least 1 interpretation that describes a scenario where the plane takes off.

Tell me what you think the 2 interpretations are. What is the "other" interpretation that none of the links cover?

BTW you still need to respond to my questions about whether or not I have correctly understood your argument. Why won't you respond to that?