JujuFish
Lifer
- Feb 3, 2005
- 11,437
- 1,053
- 136
The treadmill has to provide exponentially greater force. The treadmill can only affect the plane through friction. The treadmill acts indirectly, but the thrust acts directly on the plane.
In this imaginary world, for the plane to take off, all one has to do is fix the wheels in position. The wheels never turn and the treadmill never turns. The plane can move forward bumping and skidding along and take off.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,355
- 19,535
- 146
I'm going to jump in for one post just to tell you this:
You're wrong.
The wheels are nearly irrelevant here. For the plane not to be able to take off because of the mere friction on the wheels would mean the plane barely has enough power to move, much less fly. On most modern planes you could lock the wheels up and still have the power to take off... you'd just ruin the wheels as they are dragged down the runway.
The thrust is created by the propeller/jet engine spitting out air behind it. The wheels only exist to reduce friction with the ground. This is why planes on skids can take off and land, but are less efficient.
In short, give it up.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Nah. With the number of wheels and the weight of say a 747, the friction would probably sheer off one or more gears or at least blow the tires, compromise steering while on the ground and causing instability, or worse case, drop the fuselage or a wing onto the ground, etc. The engines would still be up to the task of compensating for the drag, but the structural integrity of the air frame would be toast.
But by this time you don't have a plane anything, just a bunch of scattered metal, so it doesn't apply to the original problem.
JujuFish
Lifer
- Feb 3, 2005
- 11,437
- 1,053
- 136
Originally posted by: exdeath
Nah. With the number of wheels and the weight of say a 747, the friction would probably sheer off one or more gears or at least blow the tires, compromise steering while on the ground and causing instability, or worse case, drop the fuselage or a wing onto the ground, etc. The engines would still be up to the task of compensating for the drag, but the structural integrity of the air frame would be toast.
But by this time you don't have a plane anything, just a bunch of scattered metal, so it doesn't apply to the original problem.
Yeah, but we're living in imaginary world, so that won't happen.
Originally posted by: exdeath
Nah. With the number of wheels and the weight of say a 747, the friction would probably sheer off one or more gears or at least blow the tires, compromise steering while on the ground and causing instability, or worse case, drop the fuselage or a wing onto the ground, etc. The engines would still be up to the task of compensating for the drag, but the structural integrity of the air frame would be toast.
But by this time you don't have a plane anything, just a bunch of scattered metal, so it doesn't apply to the original problem.
Alright, well, just slap a couple of skids under the landing gear and then we can talk
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage
Originally posted by: exdeath
Nah. With the number of wheels and the weight of say a 747, the friction would probably sheer off one or more gears or at least blow the tires, compromise steering while on the ground and causing instability, or worse case, drop the fuselage or a wing onto the ground, etc. The engines would still be up to the task of compensating for the drag, but the structural integrity of the air frame would be toast.
But by this time you don't have a plane anything, just a bunch of scattered metal, so it doesn't apply to the original problem.
Alright, well, just slap a couple of skids under the landing gear and then we can talk
What if the skids are pointing backwards? Then the plane can't take off! The skids will be going backwards at the same speed the plane goes forward.
Imagine an airplane flying at 400mph. It lowers its landing gear. You strap a treadmill to the wheels, and run the treadmill at 400mph. Will the airplane slow down?
Let me answer that. No it will not slow down. This is the same situation that we are talking about. The propellers or jet engine are what propel the airplane forward, and when the plane is moving forward fast enough, it will take off.
Everyone who says that the treadmill will keep the airplane from moving forward needs to accept that they might be wrong, and visualize one of the situations that have been given to you.
Not everybody has the skills to picture how things work in their heads, so I'm sure not everyone will grasp this, but I had to try.
Let me answer that. No it will not slow down. This is the same situation that we are talking about. The propellers or jet engine are what propel the airplane forward, and when the plane is moving forward fast enough, it will take off.
Everyone who says that the treadmill will keep the airplane from moving forward needs to accept that they might be wrong, and visualize one of the situations that have been given to you.
Not everybody has the skills to picture how things work in their heads, so I'm sure not everyone will grasp this, but I had to try.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
But it shows that a plane can be totally independent of wheels and still take off. It moves across the water because of the thrust provided by the propellors. Its floats in this case are what reduce friction between the plane and water, just as wheels reduce friction between the plane and the ground.
If the plane had no wheels at all, and it was on a conveyor belt whose speed matched the output of the propellors, then the plane would not take off, as it would remain stationary. With the wheels in place, the speed of the conveyor is completely irrelevant. It may as well be a motionless runway. The wheels will spin at an insane rate, while the plane, oblivious to their madness, proceeds calmly forward, and takes off.
Originally posted by: Amused
Actually, the aerodynamic drag of the treadmill and extra weight of a giant treadmill WILL slow the plane down.
Sorry, just had to point that out.
Now somebody is talking some sense!
Right back at ya
If I were an admin I would immediately lock any threads about this topic. Clearly people are too emotionally involved to just drop it and move on. The answer is simple and straightforward, but many people get it wrong to begin with (including me), but unfortunately most of the others seem to be too proud to admit this fact.
i actually enjoyed this one... i saw some others but this one i followed...
the funniest is when the guy obviously figures out he's wrong and leaves the thread... i started laughing when i saw that...
good job ATOT'ers!
the funniest is when the guy obviously figures out he's wrong and leaves the thread... i started laughing when i saw that...
good job ATOT'ers!
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,653
- 205
- 106
tHIS QUESTION IS FOR SMACKDOWN
If I put the exact same plane on the exact same treadmill, tie a rope to the front of the plane, and tie the other end to a cemented stationary pole at the front end of the treadmill, and lets assume the treadmill is moving backwards really really fast...
What happens?
a)The treadmill pulls so hard on the rope it breaks...
b)The plane sits there in place doing nothing...
If I put the exact same plane on the exact same treadmill, tie a rope to the front of the plane, and tie the other end to a cemented stationary pole at the front end of the treadmill, and lets assume the treadmill is moving backwards really really fast...
What happens?
a)The treadmill pulls so hard on the rope it breaks...
b)The plane sits there in place doing nothing...
No he just ate too much and had to go to the bathroom. He'll be back for seconds. His stupidity is as bad as you people who continue to feed him.
Cerpin Taxt
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 11,940
- 542
- 126
I already asked him this question, several times in this thread, and he hasn't responded. One can only reasonably conclude that he is a troll, so please stop feeding him.
vizkiz
Senior member
- Sep 20, 2005
- 216
- 0
- 0
Smack Down, think about it this way.
First: THE TREADMILL MATCHES THE SPEED OF THE BODY OF THE PLANE, NOT THE WHEEL SPEED!
The bearings in the wheels reduce the friction passed onto the plane by a factor of 100 (a conservative figure). This would mean that for every combined 100mph the wheels spin (50 mph for the plane + 50mph for the treadmill = 100mph wheel speed) the plane and treadmill are moving, the wheel speed is actually only reduced by 1mph.
That would mean the plane has a forward motion of 99mph. Now, as the plan adds airspeed, the treadmill does so too.
The plane reaches 300mph, so the treadmill has now also accelerated to 300mph. The friction on the wheels themselves is 600mph, but the bearings reduce this by a factor of 100. Therefore, the belt is only actually reducing the plane speed through friction by 6mph.
The plane is still moving 294mph and can still take off.
First: THE TREADMILL MATCHES THE SPEED OF THE BODY OF THE PLANE, NOT THE WHEEL SPEED!
The bearings in the wheels reduce the friction passed onto the plane by a factor of 100 (a conservative figure). This would mean that for every combined 100mph the wheels spin (50 mph for the plane + 50mph for the treadmill = 100mph wheel speed) the plane and treadmill are moving, the wheel speed is actually only reduced by 1mph.
That would mean the plane has a forward motion of 99mph. Now, as the plan adds airspeed, the treadmill does so too.
The plane reaches 300mph, so the treadmill has now also accelerated to 300mph. The friction on the wheels themselves is 600mph, but the bearings reduce this by a factor of 100. Therefore, the belt is only actually reducing the plane speed through friction by 6mph.
The plane is still moving 294mph and can still take off.
Ok- you have a scorpion, some snakes, a plane, a train, an automobile, and a large treadmill.
What happens?
What happens?
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