Cerpin Taxt
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 11,940
- 542
- 126
I'm still waiting for your reply smack Down.
Take a normal propeller driven airplane. Remove the wheels, and replace them with hovercraft pads. Now you have an airplane that is stationary, but makes absolutely no contact with the ground.
Take this plane, and put it on your treadmill. Throttle up.
What do you think happens?
Take a normal propeller driven airplane. Remove the wheels, and replace them with hovercraft pads. Now you have an airplane that is stationary, but makes absolutely no contact with the ground.
Take this plane, and put it on your treadmill. Throttle up.
What do you think happens?
JujuFish
Lifer
- Feb 3, 2005
- 11,437
- 1,053
- 136
All right, I'm going to assume you don't know jack squat. This is what's going on:
Treadmill moves backwards
Treadmill applies friction to wheels
Wheels turn
Very small friction with wheel bearings cause the wheel to not want to turn.
If this friction was great enough, the wheels would not turn.
If the wheels don't turn, then it is as if the wheels are a solid connected piece to the plane. In this case, the friction between the treadmill and the wheels is directly applied to the plane.
However, the wheels do turn because this friction at wheel bearings is negligible compared to the force pushing the plane forward; namely, thrust.
Thrust pushes off of the air. This means that a plane moves forward differently than a car moves forward. You're thinking of a plane as if it moves like a car. This is the error in your thinking.
If I am unclear on anything, please tell me.
what if the plane has wheels, but is transported on a train going from san antonio to los angeles while a train carring a helicopter travels from atlanta to seattle. which one arrives at destination first?
The bullet from the sniper that kills you and ultimately stops you from posting in this thread.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Sure they do, but the rolling frictional force of the wheels and resulting drag is ridiculously obscenely miniscule compared to the thrust of the engines. Think of it like the wheels are simply acting as effecient bearings to keep the body of the plane from contacting the ground... thats really all they are.
Do the wheels rolling on a toy car on a treadmill prevent you from shoving the car faster and launching it off the treadmill?
Come on... think
redgtxdi
Diamond Member
- Jun 23, 2004
- 5,464
- 8
- 81
Maybe this is a better question for the "plane does not take off" folks...............
IF THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE.........(ONLY THE AIRSPEED INCREASES)..........THEN WHERE DOES THE "LIFT" COME FROM IF THERE IS NO AIR PASSING OVER THE WINGS???? (I.E. BERNOULI'S PRINCIPLE)
IF THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE.........(ONLY THE AIRSPEED INCREASES)..........THEN WHERE DOES THE "LIFT" COME FROM IF THERE IS NO AIR PASSING OVER THE WINGS???? (I.E. BERNOULI'S PRINCIPLE)
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
In all truth the wheels could be completely seized and the plane would take off provided the deteriorating landing gear system didn't cause the plane to shift off balance, steer it off a straight path, etc. Any drag caused by rims digging into the tarmac, etc, is more likely to rip the landing gear off the plane and cause the fuselage to drag along the ground and disintegrate long long before the engines ability to counteract the drag forces would be questioned.
Ok, so we have the wheels applying a force to the plane.
Now take that force and multiply it by what ever speed needed to keep the airplane stationary with respect to ground. Once that is done the plane does not move.
Well the plane isn't touching the treadmill so it will have no effect and has nothing to do with the discussion.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
That's not really the same, since you don't have any wheels on the treadmill trying to exert force on the plane. Would the force be enough to keep the plane on the ground? Probably not, but I'll let the Mythbusters figure that out
what if the bullet encounters too much friction from the air, or has too much lift and moves out of intended direction?
What if the mouse was behind the alternator sized bulk beef it hid behind after popping out of the air conditioner?
First of all the speed wouldn't be infinite it would be constantly increasing which wouldn't violate any laws of physics unless its speed had to increase past infinite. The speed the treadmill would increase to depends on the design of the plane. If the plane was design with a small gas tank and really large wheels the speed of the treadmill could be well below the speed of light.
Well, that's my point. You can turn up that treadmill until you are blue in the face, but it has no effect on the plane's actual ground speed, or the air speed. The plane tools down the treadmill just as it would on a stationary runway, and takes off.
Now, think about that for a while. The plane taking off has nothing to do with its contact mechanism with the ground.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Multiply it? Why? By what?
There is no drag force that you could apply to the wheels that would compare to the engine thrust. Even if you had locked up wheels, the frictional drag forces would not be enough to prevent the plane from taking off, other than from causing the plane to turn off the runway, etc.
You can spin the wheels at 1,000,000 mph, all you will do is melt the bearings and add maybe a few pounds of frictional drag resistance. A few scant pounds ... to a plane that already weighs 875,000 lbs and has 200,000 lbs of forward thrust.
To put this into perspective, drag your leg out the door on the freeway at 65 mph in your car and tell me what effect that has on your speed...
Your right the plane taking off only has to do with the forces applied. The treadmill would apply a force to the wheels which is then applied to the plane. if you plane no longer contacts the treadmill it can't apply a force.
And the treadmill can keep producing a force to keep the plane stationary.
Why can't some people see this basic fact? You have to forget real world, this problem has nothing to do with real world.
Alright, well obviously my current argument is falling on deaf ears.
Let's try LS20's.
Imagine you are flying in an airplane, cruising at 100 mph, and you want to slow down to 80 mph.
If you were to strap a treadmill to the landing gear on the airplane and run it at 20 mph in reverse, would that slow the plane down?
Let's try LS20's.
Imagine you are flying in an airplane, cruising at 100 mph, and you want to slow down to 80 mph.
If you were to strap a treadmill to the landing gear on the airplane and run it at 20 mph in reverse, would that slow the plane down?
Until of course it runs out of gas. Alll the energy of the plane would end up as the rotational energy of the wheels.
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