MyFord Touch disgust torpedoes Ford's JD Power rating

[Pariah]

5th last year, 23rd this year. Largely because of frustration with the new touchscreen system. Somewhere off in the distance the faint sound of chuckles can be heard presumably emanating from BMW engineers.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/22/autos/ford_jd_power_initial_quality/index.htm

 

[PhoKingGuy]

I don't know what they're talking about with MFT. I found it extremely easy to use and ridiculously functional.

 

[exar333]

Sync is an amazing system; this destroys any sort of semblance of credibility JDP had. I had never used Sync, tried it once, and it was extremely intuitive. Great system.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Every Ford and Lincoln car review I've read has blasted the buggy MFT/MLT system.

 

[Pariah]

Sync is an amazing system; this destroys any sort of semblance of credibility JDP had. I had never used Sync, tried it once, and it was extremely intuitive. Great system.

As hard as it might be for a tech God like you to believe, not everyone is a master of all that is tech like you are. How great the system is is irrelevant if the average user can't figure out how to use it. I fail to see how large numbers of users complaining about this particular system tarnishes the reputation of JDP.

"People were finding several problems with the system in that it would crash, freeze, black out," said Sargent. "Beyond that, people complained that it was more complex to use than they would like."

Many in the automotive press, including The Times, have been critical of the system’s complexity. Consumer Reports said the “aggravating design” was one reason it could not give the Ford Edge its coveted designation of “Recommended.”

It isn't just random users complaining about the sytem.

‘Aggravating’ MyFord Touch Sends Ford Plummeting in J.D. Power Quality Survey

 

[MotF Bane]

I don't know what they're talking about with MFT. I found it extremely easy to use and ridiculously functional.

Yes, but the average denizen of AT is a member of the top 1% of the car-buying population in understanding of technology.

 

[Fenixgoon]

ive heard lots of negative reviews of MFT/MLT as well.

honestly, i think there comes a point where a 1000 layer touch screen really isn't as good as knobs and buttons. sure it might be more elegant, but changing little things isnt hard when you know where every button is.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Yeah I understand it may have a learning curve, but so did iDrive/COMAND/MMI. Spend a few minutes fiddling with it and you can figure it out. I realize there might be a few hitches in the system but they have time to figure it out and update it accordingly.

Even with the minor glitches I would rather use this over the trash that Toyota/Honda shove off as integrated navigation systems.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Sync is an amazing system; this destroys any sort of semblance of credibility JDP had. I had never used Sync, tried it once, and it was extremely intuitive. Great system.

Never had to turn off the, "Would you like to run a diagnostic" nag, eh? Comes on one mile into a trip after it's triggered for some reason.

Ignore it, it comes back.
Hit "no," it comes back.
Hit "yes," it comes back.
Go in and manually run the diagnostic, it comes back.

Try to find the setting that turns it off? Good luck. Just because you found "settings" doesn't mean you're in the right branch. Yup, there's more than one "settings" menu, and there's no rhyme or reason to the path to get to the right one.

That some of the branches for basic functionality are laid out so that even a conservatard can figure it out doesn't mean that the whole system is a dream.

It was bad form to mention anything when there wasn't anything wrong.
It was worse form to ask while the car is in motion.
It was even worse that it didn't take "no" for an answer.
And worst that they buried the setting you'd need to adjust just to get the car back to normal functionality.

Retardation stacked upon retardation stacked upon retardation stacked upon retardation is not my idea of "Quality."

 

[punjabiplaya]

ive heard lots of negative reviews of MFT/MLT as well.

honestly, i think there comes a point where a 1000 layer touch screen really isn't as good as knobs and buttons. sure it might be more elegant, but changing little things isnt hard when you know where every button is.

Yeah I understand it may have a learning curve, but so did iDrive/COMAND/MMI. Spend a few minutes fiddling with it and you can figure it out. I realize there might be a few hitches in the system but they have time to figure it out and update it accordingly.

Even with the minor glitches I would rather use this over the trash that Toyota/Honda shove off as integrated navigation systems.

I think there's 2 layers to the problem you both addressed. Tons of layers of screens and settings/non-intuitive UI and general bugginess. After reading the logs of complaints and even a few recalls from Ford, there is a genuine lack of polish and tons of bugs/glitches. Constant rebooting is not a feature, lol.

I love sitting and fiddling with settings on all sorts of electronics, but 99% of people don't.

I loved it, but I see how others would have a problem especially seeing people struggle with some of the other less intrusive cars' systems.

Had a nice old lady who is our friend ask me to drive slowly so she could follow me to our friends' new house for a prayer. I told her to just punch in the address into the sat nav and all she said was "I don't know how." She has a Lexus ES350 or whatever the hell it is. I know that UI is easy as hell to use and she couldn't figure out how to use that.

 

[LTC8K6]

Are you running the latest software?

 

[Vette73]

This is why I hate most "relability"/"quality" ratings.
An engine blows up = I thought my AC was going to be colder. Or trans goes out hundreds of miles from home = I thought my gas milage was going to be better in my H2 hummer.

"In other words, even if a certain feature of a car works as it was designed to, automakers are penalized if owners complained about it, anyway." 🙄

CR is probably the worst of them as they will not give out any information how they got their "ratings" but most still use BS reasons to drop someone like this.

 

[Doppel]

I haven't used it. I've not heard many complaints, but I don't look for them. I know that BMW's idrive has had a lot of complaints.

I have two cars one with auto climate control and one with. I never used the auto climate control and neither does my wife. Sometimes I love seeing a great big knob I can find in the dark and cranking the air to max or min with a quick flick of the wrist. I'm sure if I had an advanced touch screen with a thousand menu options I would quickly grow to like it, but maybe some people would hate them, particularly old people who are technoidiots.

 

[punjabiplaya]

This is why I hate most "relability"/"quality" ratings.
An engine blows up = I thought my AC was going to be colder. Or trans goes out hundreds of miles from home = I thought my gas milage was going to be better in my H2 hummer.

"In other words, even if a certain feature of a car works as it was designed to, automakers are penalized if owners complained about it, anyway." 🙄

CR is probably the worst of them as they will not give out any information how they got their "ratings" but most still use BS reasons to drop someone like this.

That's one of the reasons I hate the reliability ratings. All you get is a number x amount of problems per 100 cars. A loose knob (that you can just screw back in) vs a hole in the block are both "1 problem" but the severity is vastly different.

 

[Pariah]

This is why I hate most "relability"/"quality" ratings.
An engine blows up = I thought my AC was going to be colder. Or trans goes out hundreds of miles from home = I thought my gas milage was going to be better in my H2 hummer.

"In other words, even if a certain feature of a car works as it was designed to, automakers are penalized if owners complained about it, anyway." 🙄

So you believe if Ford decides to put the radio controls in the trunk for their upcoming models that isn't a quality issue? Just because it works as designed doesn't mean it can't be idiotic or considered a quality issue. If a large enough number of owners can't get the vehicle to work the way they intuitively think it should work, especially for mundane everday tasks like climate control and radio operation, then that is a quality issue.

A loose knob (that you can just screw back in) vs a hole in the block are both "1 problem" but the severity is vastly different.

Welcome to 2011. New cars don't have problems with holes in their blocks. Catastrophic mechanical and electrical failures that disable new cars are so rare that there is no real point focusing on them. If one does it occur, the public certainly won't have to wait for the annual JD Power survey to find out about it. This is why JD Power changed how the grading system worked a few years ago.

 

[Arkaign]

^^ On the flip side, if a buyer buys a Ford vehicle with the optional touch stuff WITHOUT testing/understanding it at the dealer before signing the paperwork, I think that is just idiocy. It's a lot like the iDrive complaints a few years ago, someone who is competent with it, even the old system, can get through it just fine. I still prefer regular knobs/switches for radio/ac, but people should really be more educated about what they're buying and at least know how to do important things like understand how to operate the radio and AC before choosing that model.

 

[Arkaign]

In that way, it's like someone choosing a manual car who's used to automatics, and having them complain that they keep stalling it and having rough shifts, and that they have to do more work now with the 3rd pedal.

EDIT : This only relates to the questions of how to do things/intuitiveness.

As for actual failures/crashes/etc, that is legitimate for sure if it can be reproduced. In the hyper-information age that we're in now, sometimes small problems (I didn't think there were actually more than a handful of vehicles that had the Toyota throttle issue show itself) get wildly exaggerated.

 

[Pariah]

^^ On the flip side, if a buyer buys a Ford vehicle with the optional touch stuff WITHOUT testing/understanding it at the dealer before signing the paperwork, I think that is just idiocy. It's a lot like the iDrive complaints a few years ago, someone who is competent with it, even the old system, can get through it just fine. I still prefer regular knobs/switches for radio/ac, but people should really be more educated about what they're buying and at least know how to do important things like understand how to operate the radio and AC before choosing that model.

Thankfully, Ford doesn't agree with you.

Ford officials said they were not surprised by the results, having warned analysts this year that the company was addressing some quality issues with some new models, and insisted that much of what dragged down its rating had already been addressed.

Some of the issues with MyFord Touch were actual defects, such as occasions when the system would reboot itself, that have been addressed through software upgrades. To help drivers understand the system better, Ford has allocated money to dealers so that they can have employees spend more time explaining it to buyers. The company said this week that it would make lettering on screens larger and bolder so it would be more legible while driving.

For people who have been driving cars for years and even decades, the basic controls have not changed significantly until recent years. For these people, it is understandable that they wouldn't assume that a system like MFT is so complicated that even the press whose job it is to review cars has found it unintuitive, buggy, and aggravatingly complex. For this reason, it is the dealerhip's responsibility to train prospective buyers on the system, not wait for customers to ask questions about it. This is the route Ford is taking. And that reflects very well on them, that they are taking a proactive approach to addressing customer complaints, rather than doing what the people in this thread are doing, making excusing, or even worse, blaming the problems on the intelligence of the customers who are spending their money.

This is the benefit of surveys like there. They don't just inform the public, they inform the manufacturers as well about what customers are saying and thinking about their products. Ford has made tremendous improvements in recent years, and the way they are dealing with this head on rather than making excuses or complaining about how the results are tallied, shows how they have managed to do it and bodes well that they will continue to improve heading forward.

 

[Throckmorton]

It looks sluggish in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toZY_ocHArA

 

[Vette73]

So you believe if Ford decides to put the radio controls in the trunk for their upcoming models that isn't a quality issue? Just because it works as designed doesn't mean it can't be idiotic or considered a quality issue. If a large enough number of owners can't get the vehicle to work the way they intuitively think it should work, especially for mundane everday tasks like climate control and radio operation, then that is a quality issue.



Welcome to 2011. New cars don't have problems with holes in their blocks. Catastrophic mechanical and electrical failures that disable new cars are so rare that there is no real point focusing on them. If one does it occur, the public certainly won't have to wait for the annual JD Power survey to find out about it. This is why JD Power changed how the grading system worked a few years ago.

BS. Many cars/trucks have major problems that people that don't own them or work on them never know about.

You know about toyota and their sludge engines?
GMs LS piston slap issue?
Nissan Titan and their Diff issues?
Mercedes and their brake issues?
GMs intake gaskets?
Hondas Tranmissions?

Take a guess which of those had recalls to fully fix them? I'll give ya a hint, its between 0 and 0.

 

[Pariah]

BS. Many cars/trucks have major problems that people that don't own them or work on them never know about.

You know about toyota and their sludge engines?
GMs LS piston slap issue?
Nissan Titan and their Diff issues?
Mercedes and their brake issues?
GMs intake gaskets?
Hondas Tranmissions?

Take a guess which of those had recalls to fully fix them? I'll give ya a hint, its between 0 and 0.

How frequently do any of these occur during the first 90 days of ownership? That is the time frame the JD Power initial quality survey covers.

 

[Throckmorton]

Never had to turn off the, "Would you like to run a diagnostic" nag, eh? Comes on one mile into a trip after it's triggered for some reason.

Ignore it, it comes back.
Hit "no," it comes back.
Hit "yes," it comes back.
Go in and manually run the diagnostic, it comes back.

Try to find the setting that turns it off? Good luck. Just because you found "settings" doesn't mean you're in the right branch. Yup, there's more than one "settings" menu, and there's no rhyme or reason to the path to get to the right one.

That some of the branches for basic functionality are laid out so that even a conservatard can figure it out doesn't mean that the whole system is a dream.

It was bad form to mention anything when there wasn't anything wrong.
It was worse form to ask while the car is in motion.
It was even worse that it didn't take "no" for an answer.
And worst that they buried the setting you'd need to adjust just to get the car back to normal functionality.

Retardation stacked upon retardation stacked upon retardation stacked upon retardation is not my idea of "Quality."

Sounds like the interface was designed by programmers.

 

[Vette73]

How frequently do any of these occur during the first 90 days of ownership? That is the time frame the JD Power initial quality survey covers.

You said "Catastrophic mechanical and electrical failures that disable new cars are so rare that there is no real point focusing on them"

All the things I listed have happened to new cars while under warranty and even after warranty. Some were kinda fixed by new gaskets, inteval changes, etc... but were still major issues that most never heard of yet happened to a very large % of those cars/trucks.

So yes "Catastrophic" problems still happen yet they count as much as "My H2 hummer does not get good gas milage...". And yes that was a "real" problem that JD power used to drop Hummer to the bottom of their rankings.

 

[Arkaign]

Thankfully, Ford doesn't agree with you.




For people who have been driving cars for years and even decades, the basic controls have not changed significantly until recent years. For these people, it is understandable that they wouldn't assume that a system like MFT is so complicated that even the press whose job it is to review cars has found it unintuitive, buggy, and aggravatingly complex. For this reason, it is the dealerhip's responsibility to train prospective buyers on the system, not wait for customers to ask questions about it. This is the route Ford is taking. And that reflects very well on them, that they are taking a proactive approach to addressing customer complaints, rather than doing what the people in this thread are doing, making excusing, or even worse, blaming the problems on the intelligence of the customers who are spending their money.

This is the benefit of surveys like there. They don't just inform the public, they inform the manufacturers as well about what customers are saying and thinking about their products. Ford has made tremendous improvements in recent years, and the way they are dealing with this head on rather than making excuses or complaining about how the results are tallied, shows how they have managed to do it and bodes well that they will continue to improve heading forward.

There's a significant difference in determining that improvements could and should be made in a system, and people being morons buying something for tens of thousands of dollars without understanding how to operate it. I've messed around lightly with the various gens of Ford Sync and the new mytouch system, and it's not difficult to figure things out. Most things are at the most two or three touches to get to.

 

[Pariah]

You said "Catastrophic mechanical and electrical failures that disable new cars are so rare that there is no real point focusing on them"

All the things I listed have happened to new cars while under warranty and even after warranty. Some were kinda fixed by new gaskets, inteval changes, etc... but were still major issues that most never heard of yet happened to a very large % of those cars/trucks.

So yes "Catastrophic" problems still happen yet they count as much as "My H2 hummer does not get good gas milage...". And yes that was a "real" problem that JD power used to drop Hummer to the bottom of their rankings.

Apparently you've missed that this thread is about JD Power's Initial Quality Study. Why would I be talking about problems that may occur outside of the timeframe covered by this study and would have zero effect on the results?