My Union was useful this week!!

[Stunt]

So Municipal elections are on up here in Canada. Unlike provincial and federal elections the people running for council, mayor, etc do not carry any party stripes. I am somewhat new to the area and don't know the people running (all old people anyway) and i don't care for any of the municipal issues/jurisdiction.

So on the ride to work I saw which signs the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers) had on the grass, I also took a look at the Union information board at work.

I will be voting against these union friendly candidates. Thank you Auto Workers and Steelworkers!!

 

[BoomerD]

So, if you belong to your union, you're voting AGAINST your own interests? Odd way to do things...

While I don't always vote along my union's recommendations, I generally follow their advice pretty closely. I tend to vote my wallet, rather than a bunch of phony moral issues anyway...
Remember, "A working man voting Republican, is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders"...

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
So, if you belong to your union, you're voting AGAINST your own interests? Odd way to do things...

While I don't always vote along my union's recommendations, I generally follow their advice pretty closely. I tend to vote my wallet, rather than a bunch of phony moral issues anyway...
Remember, "A working man voting Republican, is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders"...

When I say "my union" i mean union at my workplace.
I am in management.

And what's this "Remember" thing?
Is this a catch phase the union has brainwashed you with?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
So, if you belong to your union, you're voting AGAINST your own interests? Odd way to do things...

While I don't always vote along my union's recommendations, I generally follow their advice pretty closely. I tend to vote my wallet, rather than a bunch of phony moral issues anyway...
Remember, "A working man voting Republican, is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders"...

At least he is open and honest in his hatred for the common man.

I'm amazed the whole shop doesn't just up and quit under his management.

The pay must be half way decent still up there in Canada.

 

[Stunt]

I don't have hatred for my common man...I am against union politics.

 

[BoomerD]

Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

Unions are for the unions. They don't care any more about the "average working man" than managment does. They exist to extort money from low wage employees and consolidate power.

<--- Former UFCW worker.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

That's what they want you to think...
Unions are in the business of collecting union dues; a parasite of the working man.

Unions gave some power to the people in a time where worker's rights were exploited. It was a progressive movement which has helped create the laws we have today. Now that these worker friendly rules are now set in law, the union no longer has purpose.

Workers are no longer being exploited and in most cases the union is helping today's businesses go under. The union at my work spends all of its time trying to keep the laziest, most disciplined workers in the building. They focus on working for the incompetent and getting pissed off at people who work too hard.

I can't understand why the union is against being more productive in a thin margin and competitive business. The union executives are made up of the laziest workers and those who want nothing more than to screw over the company.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

Unions are for the unions. They don't care any more about the "average working man" than managment does. They exist to extort money from low wage employees and consolidate power.

<--- Former UFCW worker.

What turned you from working side by side with the common man to hating the common man?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

Unions are for the unions. They don't care any more about the "average working man" than managment does. They exist to extort money from low wage employees and consolidate power.

<--- Former UFCW worker.

What turned you from working side by side with the common man to hating the common man?

This statement is as reasonable as saying Democrats hate America.
:roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

Unions are for the unions. They don't care any more about the "average working man" than managment does. They exist to extort money from low wage employees and consolidate power.

<--- Former UFCW worker.

What turned you from working side by side with the common man to hating the common man?

This statement is as reasonable as saying Democrats hate America.

That's exactly what you and the resident Republicans have been saying for years.

What's the matter, can dish the medicine but can't take it???

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

Unions are for the unions. They don't care any more about the "average working man" than managment does. They exist to extort money from low wage employees and consolidate power.

<--- Former UFCW worker.

What turned you from working side by side with the common man to hating the common man?

This statement is as reasonable as saying Democrats hate America.

That's exactly what you and the resident Republicans have been saying for years.

What's the matter, can dish the medicine but can't take it???

I have never said that...
That's what you THINK I say...I don't need to point out your flaws in comprehension and reason, many others have and will.

 

[BoomerD]

I've been union almost all my working life, and while what you say might be true in some cases, it's not in MOST...If all the unions in the world disappeared tomorrow, wages and benefits would plummet. With no unions to keep corporate greed in check at least a little, they'd start cutting wages and benefits like they were something cancerous to the bottom line. Within a year, people would be at or below minimum wage in most jobs.
In Idaho a few years back, they passed the infamous "Right to Work" law...Pretty deceiving title, and it should be called "Right to Work for LESS" law. I knew a few people who worked at a major railcar plant there, building rail cars, light rail cars, rebuilding locomotives, etc. The day after the law took effect, every union worker in the plant was laid off, and paid off...their final check was attached to a job application, and told that their wages had been cut by 1/3 if they chose to come back. PLUS, their benefits were cancelled, and if they came back, those benefits would be reduced dramatically, with much higher costs to the employee.
Unions are still a valuable thing for the working men & women in the world. Are unions a self-supporting business? Yes, but a union is only as strong as it's weakest member.

 

[judasmachine]

After the unions are gone, and with big business bribing politicians who can repeal laws, who looks after the worker? Sooner or later it'd become a rich libertarian wet dream, and we're back to having to unionize all over again.

Your handlers are as corrupt as ours. (BTW I mean this is a general upper management/big business kind of way, not personally.)

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

as a union business agent myself, i'd like to add that part of our union philosophy includes representing our members equally and fairly. however, we do realize that union members who are continuously creating problems for the company they work for are also creating problems for their fellow workers and the union that represents them.

we will, with the blessing of the membership, cease to support union members that use the union and the contract that these troublemakers work under as a tool to delay or avoid justifiable actions against them. there are numerous instances that i can recall where both management and union agree that a problem employee is not worth saving and the union will decline to represent him/her and accept the risk of having to defend themselves against the local labor boards should the affected employee choose to pursue that option.

just thought i'd mention that to dispel the myth that unions are unreasonable single-minded entities bent on driving businesses into the ground. it's a silly notion to think that america's unions would seek to shut down the very businesses its members rely on to put food on the table and clothes on their kids backs.

most, if not all unions do realize that fostering good working relationships with employers is of the highest priority and strive to attain and constantly improve such relationships.

 

[Rainsford]

Stunt, obviously you are in a position where you have no interest in the affairs of Unions...but I wonder how well that attitude is going to serve you managing blue collar types who DO appreciate the role a union plays in their work environment. Obviously you are their boss, but you seem to have very little respect for people in their particular socio-economic situation, and you seem pretty militant about it (at least on the Internet), if you act like this in person, I can't help but wonder how that will impact your ability to manage.

Obviously you are free to think whatever you want about unions, but sometimes managing involves putting your particular politics aside in favor of being able to effectivly do your job. Or is P&N an outlet for your frustrations against union-types that you don't let out in real life?

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

Unions are for the unions. They don't care any more about the "average working man" than managment does. They exist to extort money from low wage employees and consolidate power.

<--- Former UFCW worker.

What turned you from working side by side with the common man to hating the common man?

I didn't want to be "common."

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I've been union almost all my working life, and while what you say might be true in some cases, it's not in MOST...If all the unions in the world disappeared tomorrow, wages and benefits would plummet. With no unions to keep corporate greed in check at least a little, they'd start cutting wages and benefits like they were something cancerous to the bottom line. Within a year, people would be at or below minimum wage in most jobs.
In Idaho a few years back, they passed the infamous "Right to Work" law...Pretty deceiving title, and it should be called "Right to Work for LESS" law. I knew a few people who worked at a major railcar plant there, building rail cars, light rail cars, rebuilding locomotives, etc. The day after the law took effect, every union worker in the plant was laid off, and paid off...their final check was attached to a job application, and told that their wages had been cut by 1/3 if they chose to come back. PLUS, their benefits were cancelled, and if they came back, those benefits would be reduced dramatically, with much higher costs to the employee.
Unions are still a valuable thing for the working men & women in the world. Are unions a self-supporting business? Yes, but a union is only as strong as it's weakest member.

I know a lot of Republicans and those that support this north of the border just peed in their pants and drooling reading your post and can't wait till they can do the same thing to workers.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Stunt, obviously you are in a position where you have no interest in the affairs of Unions...but I wonder how well that attitude is going to serve you managing blue collar types who DO appreciate the role a union plays in their work environment. Obviously you are their boss, but you seem to have very little respect for people in their particular socio-economic situation, and you seem pretty militant about it (at least on the Internet), if you act like this in person, I can't help but wonder how that will impact your ability to manage.

Obviously you are free to think whatever you want about unions, but sometimes managing involves putting your particular politics aside in favor of being able to effectivly do your job. Or is P&N an outlet for your frustrations against union-types that you don't let out in real life?

Basically.
I show tons of respect to my employees and I treat everyone the same. I follow the rules set forward by the collective agreement, even though I may not believe in them.

Politics has no place in the workforce, no matter how hard the union tries. Fact of the matter is it's just business and it's management's job to force change on a general population who resists change for the sake of their jobs.

Anyone who thinks management exploits for the sake of exploiting is dead wrong. The consumer demands the lowest price, and our company must work for our customers or we will all be out of work.

Our major competitor recently went out of business because our company was able to beat them time and time again on costs. Why were we able to win the contracts? Because of management's determination to lower costs while maintaining customer requirements and good quality. Were jobs sacrificed? Yes. Are we working harder than we did? Yes. For the union to expect the work to always be there and jobs for all is a pipedream.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Don't confuse Libertarianism with Totalitarianism. People often step over the bundary and head the opposite direction when describing Libertarian ideals. Most likely because Totalitarianism is the exact opposite of Libertarianism. Some people call Libertarianism Conservatism, while others call it Liberalism. Not so shockingly it's neither of those.

However it takes some research to realize this instead of passively scanning a Libertarian cause (such as repealing all regulations) and running with the idea that this will never work. Correct, because they left out the many other dozens of changes required, in conjunction with this change, to make it work. They always neglect to mention that. Something that's not shocking.

As far as Unions go they can be both good and bad. Like management. They have power and with power comes responsibility and accountability. At least in theory. These people routinely abuse both positions.

It's true that unions form because of bad employers, but it's easier to hold one entity accountable vs two. Sadly it's very hard, under the current system, to hold employers accountable. Not only that but it can be a stupidly long process.

Here in Canada the average wait time for processing a MOL (Ministry Of Labour) report is 6 months to two years. Individual cases are easier and faster to process. Group cases are virtually impossible. I'm still in the process of going through mine and it has been roughly 3 years. It's one of the worst cases of employer misconduct in Ontario. I can't say more.

Under a government Union such as OPSEU this process might have taken far less time to resolve. Then again in government both management and front like workers have their own union. You know you have a sh!t employer when management has their own union. That's how bad government is. Not was, but is. So in essence a Union is a necessary evil under the current system, but under a Libertarian system with proper accountability you wouldn't need one. Sadly our current system is heavily under funded and constantly declawed by each successive government. The MOL, in Canada, can only hold employers accountable as far as the government allows. It's something that is erroding year by year as big business lobbies government to create loop holes and make enforcement a slap on the wrist.

 

[Jaskalas]

Problem with the Unions, even if you enjoy biting the hand that feeds you, is that some places REQUIRE you to be a member just to get employment. So if you want a job, you?ve GOT to be in that union.

Not so bad, right? Until they then dictate to you when you?re going on strike regardless of if you believe in their cause of not. You merely become a tool for them, and if you like putting food on the table you?re not going to cross them.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I don't have hatred for my common man...I am against union politics.

Can you pinpoint the exact date when unions became evil?

 

[bctbct]

I had to check my watch again to see how long its been since Stunt was trollling in a Union thread. Not that long.

My boss told me once that you guys make more than I do and I have a degree. I said, well yeah, you know you could just be a jobsite Supt. and get the great benefits we get and have a pension etc. He seemed to think that would be lessening his status with his profession.

Stunt some of those "lazy" employees were working their jobs before you were born, they will be there when your gone.

If I was you I would look for a job in the non Union sector or just shut up.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: bctbct
I had to check my watch again to see how long its been since Stunt was trollling in a Union thread. Not that long.

My boss told me once that you guys make more than I do and I have a degree. I said, well yeah, you know you could just be a jobsite Supt. and get the great benefits we get and have a pension etc. He seemed to think that would be lessening his status with his profession.

Stunt some of those "lazy" employees were working their jobs before you were born, they will be there when your gone.

If I was you I would look for a job in the non Union sector or just shut up.

The majority of workers do an excellent job for us, and are deserving of everything they receive. I am more concerned by the people who think they can work the same way they have for 30 years and just expect the business to stay forever. If our major competitor is any indication; no change = no jobs.

The stronger the union the more likely the company will go under; this has been seen time and time again. By the time the unions realize they have burried themselves, it's usually too late for them to change.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: bctbct
I had to check my watch again to see how long its been since Stunt was trollling in a Union thread. Not that long.

My boss told me once that you guys make more than I do and I have a degree. I said, well yeah, you know you could just be a jobsite Supt. and get the great benefits we get and have a pension etc. He seemed to think that would be lessening his status with his profession.

Stunt some of those "lazy" employees were working their jobs before you were born, they will be there when your gone.

If I was you I would look for a job in the non Union sector or just shut up.

The majority of workers do an excellent job for us, and are deserving of everything they receive. I am more concerned by the people who think they can work the same way they have for 30 years and just expect the business to stay forever.

If our major competitor is any indication; no change = no jobs.

The stronger the union the more likely the company will go under; this has been seen time and time again.

By the time the unions realize they have burried themselves, it's usually too late for them to change.

You just got finished telling me your competition is barely hanging on as well.

Which is it? Are they non-union and looking to crush your company?

Seen time and time again by who?

Seems to me that Companies such as yours that are so anti-employee and barely hanging on deserves to go under.