My Union was useful this week!!

[bctbct]

Stunt any factory has its share of bums, every workplace has them. What you fail to acknowlegde is that the workforce you have is highly trained and skilled to run your plant. They use that as a way to bargain with management.

Fine, fire them, then what? Ask the Goodyear managment what its like to try to build tires.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You just got finished telling me your competition is barely hanging on as well.

Which is it? Are they non-union and looking to crush your company?

Seen time and time again by who?

Seems to me that Companies such as yours that are so anti-employee and barely hanging on deserves to go under.

I said: "Our major competitor recently went out of business because our company was able to beat them time and time again on costs."
They were unionized as well; we beat them by lowering costs faster than they could. We continue to push change because even though we don't have a competitor, we now have internal competition. What we now have to fight is non-union US plants after a 40% run in the Canadian dollar; it's tight but we are managing to keep the plant open.

The union's only interest is getting money out of the company not understanding how easily the plant can be shut down.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: bctbct
Stunt any factory has its share of bums, every workplace has them. What you fail to acknowlegde is that the workforce you have is highly trained and skilled to run your plant. They use that as a way to bargain with management.

Fine, fire them, then what? Ask the Goodyear managment what its like to try to build tires.

My company has lots of excess capacity, if our union decides to quit working; the plant will be abandoned. Currently we are the lowest cost producer for our customers, if our costs rise; we will lose business and kill ourselves.

And to continue to hold this business, we must continually lower costs in various ways.

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Problem with the Unions, even if you enjoy biting the hand that feeds you, is that some places REQUIRE you to be a member just to get employment. So if you want a job, you?ve GOT to be in that union.

Not so bad, right? Until they then dictate to you when you?re going on strike regardless of if you believe in their cause of not. You merely become a tool for them, and if you like putting food on the table you?re not going to cross them.

as far as i know, unions cannot exist if the membership don't want them. also, it's completely up to the membership as to whether or not a strike is necessary to acquire a fair CBA. it's not up to union leaders to decide if its members will go on strike or not. that's what a strike vote is used for; to keep the decision-making process of going on strike in the hands of the members of the union and not its leadership.

the union leaders serve at the pleasure of its members. if the membership don't like how they're being represented, they can vote those leaders out and get new representation. ergo, typically, unions will have leadership elections every three years or so. to reiterate: it's the members of each union that calls the shots. the union leadership is merely the collective voice of its members.

to say that union leadership is the root cause of employee/employer conflicts is just not true. the members get to dictate to its leadership what they want their leaders to pursue during contract negotiations and the sole job of the union leaders and the negotiators it selects is to bargain in good faith for the wish list the membership presents them with.

if after bargaining in god faith the union leadership decides that a strike is the only way to get a fair contract, they can only call it with the blessing of its members, or the strike would collapse the moment it starts. it's easy to say that such and such a union president took its members out on strike, but in reality, the choice was for the members to make, not its leadership, for the only role they play is an advisory one, and cannot dictate terms to its members.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You just got finished telling me your competition is barely hanging on as well.

Which is it? Are they non-union and looking to crush your company?

Seen time and time again by who?

Seems to me that Companies such as yours that are so anti-employee and barely hanging on deserves to go under.

I said: "Our major competitor recently went out of business because our company was able to beat them time and time again on costs."
They were unionized as well; we beat them by lowering costs faster than they could. We continue to push change because even though we don't have a competitor, we now have internal competition. What we now have to fight is non-union US plants after a 40% run in the Canadian dollar; it's tight but we are managing to keep the plant open.

The union's only interest is getting money out of the company not understanding how easily the plant can be shut down.

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: bctbct
Stunt any factory has its share of bums, every workplace has them. What you fail to acknowlegde is that the workforce you have is highly trained and skilled to run your plant. They use that as a way to bargain with management.

Fine, fire them, then what? Ask the Goodyear managment what its like to try to build tires.

My company has lots of excess capacity, if our union decides to quit working; the plant will be abandoned.

Currently we are the lowest cost producer for our customers, if our costs rise; we will lose business and kill ourselves.

And to continue to hold this business, we must continually lower costs in various ways.

Lowest cost producer yet at the same time whining and griping about paying the people that help make your Company the "lowest cost producer".

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You also state the plant has excess capacity.

Sounds like poor management and the Company should go out of business.

 

[Colt45]

One way to reduce costs would be to can you.

 

[DotheDamnTHing]

where exactly in ontario are you?

 

[HomeAppraiser]

I am a former local Union Vice President who represented 330 workers. I was on the negotiating team for two contracts, was a Union PAC committee member and also was on the grievance committee, so I had to deal with jerkface middle management pissants like stunt all the time who don?t acknowledge that they have the union to thank for most of their benefits.

About halfway through my time there the Union helped me out when my wife was due for our first baby. I gave notice that I would be taking two weeks off for parental leave out of my sick/vacation time. Since I was the top producer in my section, my jerkface boss went to his do nothing manager and they called me in to inform me that I could only have three days of sickleave and the rest of the time would have to be unpaid leave. How do you like that, I get the most done and am rewarded with unpaid leave. This was our first baby and I was not aware of the Federal Parental leave laws that give dads the same rights as birthmothers. Luckily I had the Union to back me up. My wife had a complicated C-section and our son had problems with jaundice so I needed the full two weeks off plus I was able to work 7 hour days for the month after so I could come home for two hour lunches and help out with the baby.

I have worked for a non-union county before and it is not pretty. All the employees either belonged to the same family or the same church. With no Union to look out for you its swing shift for the heathens who don?t go to church on the same day as the manager. Try complaining to ?brother bubba? in personnel, forget it. How about the county commissioners? Let?s see the people of that small county elected a cowboy, a grandma and an ex-preacher, yea right. Without a Union to support a decent labour candidate the public employee is SOL.

Now that I work for myself I still vote for the Union supported candidates and against public employee bashing ballot measures.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Lowest cost producer yet at the same time whining and griping about paying the people that help make your Company the "lowest cost producer".

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You also state the plant has excess capacity.

Sounds like poor management and the Company should go out of business.

Lowest cost producer because costs are held low...we pay our employees extremely well. Where I have problems is when they try to keep the incompetent in the building, drag out business and resist well thought out strategies to reduce labour content.

Labour is by far our highest cost, and with more co-operation we will continue to be the lowest cost producer and win more contracts. Keep more people in the plant longer; but no...the union is too short sighted to see that.

Excess capacity is expected as efficiencies improve; it takes less plants to produce the same amount of product. After 40 years with a similar process, it's expected we will find more capacity. Now we start the consolidation process, because as you state; excess capacity is bad. How do you think consolidation works Dave? The lowest cost producer gets more business, while another plant closes.

Our management is excellent. We continue to cut costs, eliminate the competition and offer our customers the best they can find.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Colt45
One way to reduce costs would be to can you.

True.
Luckily my wages are justified through my cost savings and being an agent for change.
Union will never change on its own; stagnation will lose their jobs.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Colt45
One way to reduce costs would be to can you.

True.
Luckily my wages are justified through my cost savings and being an agent for change.
Union will never change on its own; stagnation will lose their jobs.

Yeah, management is just a bunch of misunderstood good guys. If you don't believe me then just ask them.

You should know, you've been in the real world working force for what 1 year now?? :laugh:

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Colt45
One way to reduce costs would be to can you.

True.
Luckily my wages are justified through my cost savings and being an agent for change.
Union will never change on its own; stagnation will lose their jobs.

Yeah, management is just a bunch of misunderstood good guys. If you don't believe me then just ask them.

You should know, you've been in the real world working force for what 1 year now?? :laugh:

1 year 4 months.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Colt45
One way to reduce costs would be to can you.

True.
Luckily my wages are justified through my cost savings and being an agent for change.
Union will never change on its own; stagnation will lose their jobs.

No true.

You admit excess capacity while the Company struggles to survive on the product you are producing.

Seems to me they are not producing enough product because not enough employees because they are paying you too much and not getting the product quantity up to where it should be.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Stunt
So Municipal elections are on up here in Canada. Unlike provincial and federal elections the people running for council, mayor, etc do not carry any party stripes. I am somewhat new to the area and don't know the people running (all old people anyway) and i don't care for any of the municipal issues/jurisdiction.

So on the ride to work I saw which signs the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers) had on the grass, I also took a look at the Union information board at work.

I will be voting against these union friendly candidates. Thank you Auto Workers and Steelworkers!!

They used reverse psychology on you. You=0wn3d

 

[JEDIYoda]

we need to unionize the Republican and demicratic parties....1 seperate union fpor each!!!

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Colt45
One way to reduce costs would be to can you.

True.
Luckily my wages are justified through my cost savings and being an agent for change.
Union will never change on its own; stagnation will lose their jobs.

No true.

You admit excess capacity while the Company struggles to survive on the product you are producing.

Seems to me they are not producing enough product because not enough employees because they are paying you too much and not getting the product quantity up to where it should be.

The product we sell has a large transport and spoilage cost associated with it. I assure you all products produced by my company have the lowest per unit cost. Even though there is excess capacity, it's justified. If these costs rise, they will be transferred to a plant who can do it for cheaper; as a plant loses volume, the fixed costs overwhem the variable and the plant will quickly lose business to our internal competition.

I'm obviously way over your head right now.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Stunt
So Municipal elections are on up here in Canada. Unlike provincial and federal elections the people running for council, mayor, etc do not carry any party stripes. I am somewhat new to the area and don't know the people running (all old people anyway) and i don't care for any of the municipal issues/jurisdiction.

So on the ride to work I saw which signs the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers) had on the grass, I also took a look at the Union information board at work.

I will be voting against these union friendly candidates. Thank you Auto Workers and Steelworkers!!

They used reverse psychology on you. You=0wn3d

Haha, could very well be

 

[HomeAppraiser]

Our county had the opposite problem. Personnel kept leaving because the wages were lower than other counties. It is a sad joke. We are known as a training ground where the county takes the best of the unskilled, invests time and money into them and once they are vested in the public employees retirement system they leave for a better county or go into the private sector like I did. I tried twice to negotiate the wages up, but most of our workers were mostly single moms living paycheck to paycheck and afraid to loose their health insurance, so we never had enough support for a strike.

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Ah, he wants to keep his foot on the neck of the workers under him... After all, unions are for the working man...

Unions are for the unions. They don't care any more about the "average working man" than managment does. They exist to extort money from low wage employees and consolidate power.

<--- Former UFCW worker.

What turned you from working side by side with the common man to hating the common man?

What makes you believe that union man = common man?

I have had run-ins with unions over the years but the worst/silliest was many years ago.

I was shipping a container of store shelving, (translated as heavy, steel stuff) to Hawaii. I parked my truck with the shelving at the far corner of the dock transfer terminal parking lot, had the container moved behind it and started loading the container. I did this for about 30 minutes, in the about 100 degree heat; 130+ in the container, when a man came up and asked me what I was doing. I told him and he left. I continued loading and maybe 20 minutes later there were about 10 guys surrounding my truck looking threateningly at me. They told me that I couldn't load the container as their union had the contract to load on those premises.

OK fine I stopped and went and talked with the manager of the terminal. He said he would take care of it. Shortly thereafter the mgmt guy said that the union workers had staged a wildcat strike over my loading the container. He said they would load the container. OK, no problem with me. I was roasting anyway.

Pretty soon a couple of guys come out to my truck. They climb up in to the container and notice how hot it was. "Youch! Not going to get me to load this." They left.

To make a long story short the mgmt made the union shop steward honor the contract to load my container ... I got screwed because my stuff was just tossed in the container several days later.

Unfortunately the union didn't understand that a contract is a 2 way street. They wanted to skim the gravy and leave the real work undone. Exactly why I started loading the container in the first place, figured nobody but me was dumb enough to load that sucker in the 130+ degree heat.

That day proved to me that some people are dumber than I am.

 

[bctbct]

Stunt you are young and idealistic. That will change and you will realize that people are people and at the end of the day when the job is done and everyone is paid, thats what matters.

If anyone has a bitch its the guys that give 100% each day working next to the guys that dont for the same pay while you sit in your air conditioned office.

You are going to spend a lot of your life at work, enjoy it and accept the things that you cant change.

BTW your customers do not buy your product based on the price, there are so many things more important than $$$

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: bctbct
Stunt you are young and idealistic. That will change and you will realize that people are people and at the end of the day when the job is done and everyone is paid, thats what matters.

If anyone has a bitch its the guys that give 100% each day working next to the guys that dont for the same pay while you sit in your air conditioned office.

You are going to spend a lot of your life at work, enjoy it and accept the things that you cant change.

BTW your customers do not buy your product based on the price, there are so many things more important than $$$

My product is a commodity, delivery and quality are expected...the only value we can give to the customer is cost at this point.

I am also the Plant Services Manager so I spend the vast majority of my time on the floor working with the guys. I have electrical, service mechanics, millwrights, tool&die, engineering reporting to me. You cannot serve the needs of your people from an air conditioned office.

PS. Everything comes down to money; one way or another.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Stunt, obviously you are in a position where you have no interest in the affairs of Unions...but I wonder how well that attitude is going to serve you managing blue collar types who DO appreciate the role a union plays in their work environment. Obviously you are their boss, but you seem to have very little respect for people in their particular socio-economic situation, and you seem pretty militant about it (at least on the Internet), if you act like this in person, I can't help but wonder how that will impact your ability to manage.

Obviously you are free to think whatever you want about unions, but sometimes managing involves putting your particular politics aside in favor of being able to effectivly do your job. Or is P&N an outlet for your frustrations against union-types that you don't let out in real life?

Basically.
I show tons of respect to my employees and I treat everyone the same. I follow the rules set forward by the collective agreement, even though I may not believe in them.

Politics has no place in the workforce, no matter how hard the union tries. Fact of the matter is it's just business and it's management's job to force change on a general population who resists change for the sake of their jobs.

Anyone who thinks management exploits for the sake of exploiting is dead wrong. The consumer demands the lowest price, and our company must work for our customers or we will all be out of work.

Our major competitor recently went out of business because our company was able to beat them time and time again on costs. Why were we able to win the contracts? Because of management's determination to lower costs while maintaining customer requirements and good quality. Were jobs sacrificed? Yes. Are we working harder than we did? Yes. For the union to expect the work to always be there and jobs for all is a pipedream.

Glad to hear you can keep your politics out of your work, I know too many people who can't...

I also generally agree with your view of management, but I also notice that when it comes down to "forcing change" on a company, it's rarely the management that's inconvenienced...even if they should be. Perhaps you are not that kind of manager, but a lot of management IS...and in their way are just as destructive as stubborn unions that resist change no matter what the realities of the situation. I'm just saying that, given the work group you are part of, it might be wise to keep your eyes on the folks at your level too...not just the unions. In other words, being a member of management does not automatically make someone a free market capitalist. In my experience, the blue collar folks are just more open about it.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: bctbct
Stunt you are young and idealistic. That will change and you will realize that people are people and at the end of the day when the job is done and everyone is paid, thats what matters.

If anyone has a bitch its the guys that give 100% each day working next to the guys that dont for the same pay while you sit in your air conditioned office.

You are going to spend a lot of your life at work, enjoy it and accept the things that you cant change.

BTW your customers do not buy your product based on the price, there are so many things more important than $$$

My product is a commodity, delivery and quality are expected...the only value we can give to the customer is cost at this point.

I am also the Plant Services Manager so I spend the vast majority of my time on the floor working with the guys. I have electrical, service mechanics, millwrights, tool&die, engineering reporting to me. You cannot serve the needs of your people from an air conditioned office.

PS. Everything comes down to money; one way or another.

OK your competitor went out of business

Your employees deliver a quality product on time

Your CEO makes a good salary

You make a good salary

Your employees make a good salary

YOU DONT HAVE A WORKPLACE PROBLEM

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
we need to unionize the Republican and demicratic parties....1 seperate union fpor each!!!

Cool...wobble at the east gate...bring your own baseball bat or axe-handle...


Remember folks, Stunt is the guy who snitched off the worker he caught in the store off site during working hours...FINE fellow...
BTW, what ever happened in that case? Didja get him fired? Did he ever find out YOU snitched him off? I sure hope so...and that he figures out where you live..

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: bctbct
Stunt you are young and idealistic. That will change and you will realize that people are people and at the end of the day when the job is done and everyone is paid, thats what matters.

If anyone has a bitch its the guys that give 100% each day working next to the guys that dont for the same pay while you sit in your air conditioned office.

You are going to spend a lot of your life at work, enjoy it and accept the things that you cant change.

BTW your customers do not buy your product based on the price, there are so many things more important than $$$

My product is a commodity, delivery and quality are expected...the only value we can give to the customer is cost at this point.

I am also the Plant Services Manager so I spend the vast majority of my time on the floor working with the guys. I have electrical, service mechanics, millwrights, tool&die, engineering reporting to me. You cannot serve the needs of your people from an air conditioned office.

PS. Everything comes down to money; one way or another.

OK your competitor went out of business

Your employees deliver a quality product on time

Your CEO makes a good salary

You make a good salary

Your employees make a good salary

YOU DONT HAVE A WORKPLACE PROBLEM

Really.
My company lost $2million dollars relative to budget last month.
The same budget that determines who gets the business.

Our plant did well relative to the rest of the plants in Canada...but we must continue to lower costs and that includes getting tough with the union.

See, you cannot just say everything is good when the competition is just one step behind you. Stagnation = no jobs.