My prediction of the way we'll find out that God does indeed exist.

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mjrpes3

mjrpes3

Golden Member
Oct 2, 2004
1,876
1
0
Originally posted by: a123456
Originally posted by: mjrpes3
Couldn't a supremely smart creator have figured out how to brings about all the goods things we enjoy in life without all the bad things that happen arbitrarily to innocent people?
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Why does a creator have to bring out the good? For all we know, our "creator" could be just some 26-dimensional being who got bored one day, pulled an all-nighter, and decided to build our universe as an experiment for his master's thesis on third dimensional behavior. Not too dissimilar to keeping a pet, so to speak. :)

People who keep ant farms or the equivalent don't think that much about accidentally creating a "natural disaster" for the ants. There's nothing inherent in building something that says it needs to be done optimally.
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Certainly possible... a creator can create anything, good or bad. It does raise some interesting questions about the nature of the creator and his experiment...

  1. The creator is not really that intelligent, and failed to realize his experiment would bring about sentient beings who would experienced pain/suffering.
  2. The creator knew sentient beings would come about, but thinks it's just neurons firing in a skull... nothing is really "experiencing" the pain and suffering so there is no guilt.
  3. The creator actually enjoys watching us writhe in pain because it makes the experiment awesome to watch. Like SimCity... watch what happens when I press the huge disaster button.
  4. The creator knew sentient beings would come about and that they would experience pain/suffering, but the experiment was deemed too important not to run and unfortunately he couldn't intervene personally in the world to stop the pain/suffering because that would taint the results.
 
LifesABeta

LifesABeta

Senior member
Mar 22, 2009
279
0
0
Originally posted by: a123456
Originally posted by: mjrpes3
Couldn't a supremely smart creator have figured out how to brings about all the goods things we enjoy in life without all the bad things that happen arbitrarily to innocent people?
Click to expand...

Why does a creator have to bring out the good? For all we know, our "creator" could be just some 26-dimensional being who got bored one day, pulled an all-nighter, and decided to build our universe as an experiment for his master's thesis on third dimensional behavior. Not too dissimilar to keeping a pet, so to speak. :)

People who keep ant farms or the equivalent don't think that much about accidentally creating a "natural disaster" for the ants. There's nothing inherent in building something that says it needs to be done optimally.
Click to expand...

WOW! You just blew my mind. That's an awesome perspective right here.
 
oiprocs

oiprocs

Diamond Member
Jun 20, 2001
3,780
2
0
My lack of faith is quite disturbing considering how I was brought up, but even after all I've done and all I've heard and everything I've experienced, I still believe there is a higher being out there.

You can think about whether God exists, but I don't believe it will do you any good. Better to live your life believing God does exist, because really, there are just a few basic things you need to do to live a good life.

If you can avoid cheating, stealing, adultery, etc., then you're probably going to live a good and moral life, even if you may indulge in vices not completely in accordance with any one religion.
 
M

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: Arcadio
Originally posted by: Crono
There is no level of evidence that could ever constitute a proof of the existence of God to those who aren't willing to accept that God exists.

In other words, belief in God requires faith, and anyone understanding that God would necessarily have to be greater than the universe would understand that all other things are within the universe, and thus unable to physically prove that God exists.

If programmer could somehow code a digital world of intelligent, sentient beings, I think those "people" would reject all the evidences that pointed to the existence of the programmer, even if the programmer appeared as an avatar within his own created universe.

If the design of this universe and the existence of us human beings doesn't point to the existence of God for you, then nothing will.
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I believe in God, but there is always an explanation for everything that exists. I believe that God created the Universe and let the laws of nature get to the point where we are now, knowing that those laws would lead to the creation of life and civilization.

But if we found God's signature somewhere, I don't see why atheists would not believe. I'm not talking about the reasons why God would do such a thing. This is just a thought-experiment.
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I don't see why people don't understand you're just a troll.
 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,805
6,361
126
Somewhere a Creation Scientist is trying to manipulate DNA to display the word "God" like an ASCII pic when the DNA sequence is printed out. Once successful, he plans to administer the changed DNA into himself. Then he'll begin the process of Impregnating as many women as possible, so that in a few Centuries the signature of "God" becomes a "Fact". What could possibly go wrong?
 
Arcadio

Arcadio

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2007
5,637
24
81
Originally posted by: manowar821
I don't see why people don't understand you're just a troll.
Click to expand...

Uh... maybe because there is no evidence whatsoever of me trolling? I don't insult people, I repsect other users, I don't "nef", I don't mess up people's threads by changing their topic, etc.

Why exactly would I be considered a troll?
 
Sea Moose

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Originally posted by: Arcadio
Originally posted by: manowar821
I don't see why people don't understand you're just a troll.
Click to expand...

Uh... maybe because there is no evidence whatsoever of me trolling? I don't insult people, I repsect other users, I don't "nef", I don't mess up people's threads by changing their topic, etc.

Why exactly would I be considered a troll?
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because your Arcadio
 
Arcadio

Arcadio

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2007
5,637
24
81
Originally posted by: mjrpes3
Certainly possible... a creator can create anything, good or bad. It does raise some interesting questions about the nature of the creator and his experiment...

  1. The creator is not really that intelligent, and failed to realize his experiment would bring about sentient beings who would experienced pain/suffering.
  2. The creator knew sentient beings would come about, but thinks it's just neurons firing in a skull... nothing is really "experiencing" the pain and suffering so there is no guilt.
  3. The creator actually enjoys watching us writhe in pain because it makes the experiment awesome to watch. Like SimCity... watch what happens when I press the huge disaster button.
  4. The creator knew sentient beings would come about and that they would experience pain/suffering, but the experiment was deemed too important not to run and unfortunately he couldn't intervene personally in the world to stop the pain/suffering because that would taint the results.
Click to expand...

There might be some things we don't understand. Just keep in mind that we don't know all. We cannot know all. We think we know everything about our Universe just because our brains are capable of rational thought, but there might be more to this Universe than what our brains can understand.

We don't know all there is to know.
 
Arcadio

Arcadio

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2007
5,637
24
81
Originally posted by: Barfo
Do you have a reason to believe these easter eggs exist or is it just a gut feeling?
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Oops... I didn't see your question Barfo.

It's not a gut feeling, and there is no reason to believe there is such thing, but it is an interesting "what-if" scenario.
 
Sea Moose

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Originally posted by: Arcadio
Originally posted by: Barfo
Do you have a reason to believe these easter eggs exist or is it just a gut feeling?
Click to expand...

Oops... I didn't see your question Barfo.

It's not a gut feeling, and there is no reason to believe there is such thing, but it is an interesting "what-if" scenario.
Click to expand...

perhaps fractals are your easter egg
 
The Sauce

The Sauce

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,741
34
91
Well, that other creator, of course. Dumb question. Its simple deductive reasoning.
 
Miramonti

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Originally posted by: Arcadio
I've always thought that one day we'll discover unmistakable proof of the existence of God, or an Intelligent Designer. I think the way it will occur is very similar to the way a computer programmer inserts an "Easter Egg" into a program, in such a way that it is not supposed to be seen, but that will be found if you look carefully.

There are two kinds of Easter Eggs that might exist in our Universe. The first kind would be buried deep inside subatomic particles. Now, I cannot even imagine the structure of such an Easter Egg. But as soon as our scientists look deep enough into the structure of subatomic particles, it will become clear that there is something there that was placed on purpose, and that defies the laws of nature and/or probability. I'm not talking about an Easter Egg that could be explained by probability (such as the structure of DNA). I'm talking about an Easter Egg that would unmistakable recognized as being created by an Intelligent Designer.

The second kind of Easter Egg would be in the far reaches of deep space. Some day, astronomers will discover a message written in deep space that would be identified as being created by an Intelligent Designer. Now, this message (I cannot speculate about its structure or what it's made of) must be directly recognizable by our civilization. It cannot be an abstract message that could've been written by an alien civilization. Scientists will eventually determine that such a message was written by the designer of the Universe.

Of course, there will always be skeptical scientists that will say that such Easter Eggs were created by natural processes.

I wonder what the Easter Egg message will say....
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Its not to suggest God doesn't exist, but as long as negatives can't be proven, there will never be universally accepted proof that God exists.
 
sdifox

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,688
18,026
126
I have a feeling if we ever get a message from god or ID or whatever it will be a fortune cookie and the cookie says

"That wasn't chicken."
 
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