Originally posted by: BigDH01
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: alchemize
Our founding fathers would be cleaning their muskets...
I agree, the amount of wealth concentration and the plutocracy/aristocracy it's creating is scary indeed.
LOL Phokus, the "libertarian" (can we finally dispense with this silliness? You're about as libertarian as Hugo Chavez), ignorant of US history as he is most topics.
?To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.? ? Thomas Jefferson
?The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ?Thou shalt not covet? and ?Thou shalt not steal? were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.? ? John Adams
Please don't use quotes like that. To use a paragraph written or spoken by our founders without giving context is highly disingenuous.
These were complicated people. Jefferson also wrote this
There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent it's ascendancy. On the question, What is the best provision, you and I differ; but we differ as rational friends, using the free exercise of our own reason, and mutually indulging it's errors. You think it best to put the Pseudo-aristoi into a separate chamber of legislation where they may be hindered from doing mischief by their coordinate branches, and where also they may be a protection to wealth against the Agrarian and plundering enterprises of the Majority of the people. I think that to give them power in order to prevent them from doing mischief, is arming them for it, and increasing instead of remedying the evil. For if the coordinate branches can arrest their action, so may they that of the coordinates. Mischief may be done negatively as well as positively. Of this a cabal in the Senate of the U. S. has furnished many proofs. Nor do I believe them necessary to protect the wealthy; because enough of these will find their way into every branch of the legislation to protect themselves. From 15. to 20. legislatures of our own, in action for 30. years past, have proved that no fears of an equalisation of property are to be apprehended from them.
This was in a letter to Adams. These men weren't automatons. They had complicated beliefs and ideals. No doubt, they often found themselves questioning their positions (I wish more people here did the same). To try and sum up Jefferson or Adams by one quote is an insult to them and futile in its purpose. Although Jefferson may have been specifically addressing landed aristocracy's role in government, it's clear he despises landed wealth. Jefferson recognized the danger of generational wealth, and later in the letter even mentioned a way to prevent it (describes meritocracy).
At the first session of our legislature after the Declaration of Independance, we passed a law abolishing entails. And this was followed by one abolishing the privilege of Primogeniture, and dividing the lands of intestates equally among all their children, or other representatives. These laws, drawn by myself, laid the axe to the root of Pseudoaristocracy. And had another which I prepared been adopted by the legislature, our work would have been compleat. It was a Bill for the more general diffusion of learning. This proposed to divide every county into wards of 5. or 6. miles square, like your townships; to establish in each ward a free school for reading, writing and common arithmetic; to provide for the annual selection of the best subjects from these schools who might receive at the public expense a higher degree of education at a district school; and from these district schools to select a certain number of the most promising subjects to be compleated at an University, where all the useful sciences should be taught. Worth and genius would thus have been sought out from every condition of life, and compleatly prepared by education for defeating the competition of wealth and birth for public trusts.
He's describing a way to defeat aristocracy through free higher education (even University) for promising subjects. Free education also happens to be one of Marx's ten tenets of a Socialist society. This doesn't make Jefferson a Marxist, just as your single quote doesn't make Jefferson a laissez-faire Capitalist.
You can also read Jefferson's Virginia constitution
here.
Every person of full age neither owning nor having owned [50] acres of land, shall be entitled to an appropriation of [50] acres or to so much as shall make up what he owns or has owned [50] acres in full and absolute dominion. And no other person shall be capable of taking an appropriation.
Perhaps Jefferson knew he couldn't completely get rid of landed estates or perhaps, in your quote, he genuinely felt that the government should never take from one to give to another. I can't tell because you've only given a few lines in what must have been a much larger letter or speech. If all I wanted to do is pick out a quote, I could pick these:
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682
"We are all the more reconciled to the tax on importations, because it falls exclusively on the rich, and with the equal partition of intestate's estates, constitutes the best agrarian law. In fact, the poor man in this country who uses nothing but what is made within his own farm or family, or within the United States, pays not a farthing of tax to the General Government, but on his salt; and should we go into that manufacture as we ought to do, he will pay not one cent." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1811. ME 13:39
"I may err in my measures, but never shall deflect from the intention to fortify the public liberty by every possible means, and to put it out of the power of the few to riot on the labors of the many." --Thomas Jefferson to John Tyler, 1804. ME 11:33
"Whenever there is in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682
"The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on. If for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be provided to those excluded from the appropriation. If we do not, the fundamental right to labor the earth returns to the unemployed... It is not too soon to provide by every possible means that as few as possible shall be without a little portion of land. The small landholders are the most precious part of a state." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682
"If the overgrown wealth of an individual is deemed dangerous to the State, the best corrective is the law of equal inheritance to all in equal degree; and the better, as this enforces a law of nature, while extra-taxation violates it." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:466
This last quote is from the same source as your's BTW. If you really want to get into an examination of this man's thoughts, you can go
here. Granted, it's a hypothesis, but it is well-supported and far more detailed than the simple quote you gave.
The td;dr version: don't pick out quotes from complicated people and allude to the idea that this is what these people believed. I hate reading quotes from people. If you feel they are important enough to quote, you should at least read their work to discover the intricacies of their beliefs. You might be surprised to discover how Jefferson felt about Capitalism and wage-labor relationships.