if that disabled person is here illegally then, yes deport them.
if they are a citicen,or here legaly, then they are entiteled to the programs and perks that come with that status.
if that disabled person is here illegally then, yes deport them.
if they are a citicen,or here legaly, then they are entiteled to the programs and perks that come with that status.
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: BatmanNate
Originally posted by: TheCorm
Groundzero scares me :Q...he's probably at home right now...sharpening those knives....ready for armageddon......
LOL...only kidding....."or am i!!...."
But I must say I am not keen on people living off the state unless they absolutely cannot work....
It is irrelevant whether or not they can work. Their "need" does not take precedense over my freedom to do what I will with my hard earned money. Even if they "cannot" work, it does not become my responsibility unless of course you are an advocate of socialism and believe that people are entitled to the labors of others at the cost of freedom.
His needs are not affecting your "hard earned" money. It is not your responsibility to support his friend. It is your responsibility to pay your taxes. And again, where did he say that his friend was living on welfare? Try to stay on the topic if you possibly can.
I'm not talking about the friend of this thread's originator, my comments were in response the the person that I quoted who was talking about living off of the state. That DOES affect my hard earned money which is taken from me in taxes and is redistributed to those who did not earn it.
Then you do not realize fully the freedom you are losing in allowing others to be entitled to the fruit of your labor. You become enslaved to supporting these people. The strong are punished to benefit the weak. This is why when our government was originally formed it was very restricted as far as what it had control over.
Or if you look at it another way....I am a human being...who cares about helping others less fortunate....and not a..well....for lack of a better description...a butt munch.
If someone chooses not to work and lives off the state....then it's not fair...if someone has a disability or becomes disabled through no fault or choice of their own then it's something that happens....most people who are disabled still work if they can...they would rather be working than have a disability anyway....
But moving things back on topic.....I am not 100% familiar with US deportation law, what occurs in the courts over this exactly?
dabuddha
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 19,579
- 17
- 81
Well I do thank god that the majority of US citizens are not like you
No one becomes "enslaved" to supporting "these" people. I do agree with you, however, that illegal immigrants should not be able to take advantage of programs that are for citizens. But kicking them out of the country because they're not lucky to have been born here like you? That's just stupid and ignorant. We lose too many good people that way and unfortunately keep undeserving people here.Sorry but I don't feel sorry about him getting deported. Like it or not he is illegal here. Anyone who is illegal is security threat and are to be deported ASAP. Also he is 20 and he being an adult for the last 2 years under USA laws, that should have given him enough time to resolve this problem or at very least get the process moving to resolve the problem.
Originally posted by: Dezign
Originally posted by: dabuddha
grow up kid
Sad thing is, he's not a kid.
Tut tut tut..... In that case how 'bout "grow up jerk
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
There is a reason why most/all countries have immigration laws. Some countries have stiffer ones than others. Whether you're sympathetic to illegals or ravenously against them it's quite undeniable that, overall, illegal immigration is against the national interests of a country. That's why it's called illegal. Even though somebody may not be on welfare as mentioned below their being illegal doesn't mean they are not using tax dollars. I've never been on welfare but I use plenty of government benefits like police, fire, etc.
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Well I do thank god that the majority of US citizens are not like you
Kicking someone out of the country who doesn't take the time or effort to actually become a US citizen seems like a completely legitimate thing to do, if you ask me.
If you want to stay in the US, then do what it takes to do so. If you just want to sponge off of the country and not contribute, be prepared to get your ass kicked out of the country.
dabuddha
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 19,579
- 17
- 81
Originally posted by: mpitts
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Well I do thank god that the majority of US citizens are not like you
Kicking someone out of the country who doesn't take the time or effort to actually become a US citizen seems like a completely legitimate thing to do, if you ask me.
If you want to stay in the US, then do what it takes to do so. If you just want to sponge off of the country and not contribute, be prepared to get your ass kicked out of the country.
Wow you obviously have no clue about the immigration process do you.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
The problem with US immigration is twofold: a) It's very difficult for the average person to immigrate to the US legally. Based on comments on this board and other threads it's MUCH harder than the average American is led to believe. and b) The laws are just not enforced.
That is why the US has a ton of illegal immigrants all over the freaking place. If everything was enforced accurately they could actually ease up on point a so that legitimate people and positive contributors to the nation have less hoops to go through. In an attempt to keep illegals out the US has made legal immigration difficult, but since they aren't overly willing to enforce immigration you end up with plenty of illegals and then frustrated individuals trying to do it legally.
That is why the US has a ton of illegal immigrants all over the freaking place. If everything was enforced accurately they could actually ease up on point a so that legitimate people and positive contributors to the nation have less hoops to go through. In an attempt to keep illegals out the US has made legal immigration difficult, but since they aren't overly willing to enforce immigration you end up with plenty of illegals and then frustrated individuals trying to do it legally.
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Well I do thank god that the majority of US citizens are not like you
What you fail to realize is that this country was built upon hard work, luck has nothing to do with it. The principles that define what America was then embraced independance and individualism to an extreme. Part of being independent and an individual is determining the course of your own life, and a big part of that life is the money you make which is a representation of your work tradable for the hard work of others on mutually consentual terms. Now, when someone comes along and tells you that they are going to take that money, the rights to your labor, and distribute it to those who have not worked hard for it like you have, you lose that freedom. This is why socialist states do not prosper. There is no motivation for hard work when it is punished and you could have the fruits of it for free. That is not what America stands for, or perhaps I should say used to stand for. Do you think YOU should have the power to say who is deserving of staying here and who is not? One can deserve nothing other that the right to himself, and that which he earns and produces.
and knowing that you and yours are here as LEGAL immigrants is also proof that if you do take the time and make the effort to come here legally, for work or to become citizens, you most likely will not "sponge" off of the system as so many illegals do.
i was most upset at the fact that these people came here legally to start with, and then decided it was, for whatever reason, easier to just ignore the due proccess of becoming a citizen. after being here for 15 years his whole family could have been naturalized citizens by now.
dabuddha
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 19,579
- 17
- 81
Originally posted by: BatmanNate
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Well I do thank god that the majority of US citizens are not like you
What you fail to realize is that this country was built upon hard work, luck has nothing to do with it. The principles that define what America was then embraced independance and individualism to an extreme. Part of being independent and an individual is determining the course of your own life, and a big part of that life is the money you make which is a representation of your work tradable for the hard work of others on mutually consentual terms. Now, when someone comes along and tells you that they are going to take that money, the rights to your labor, and distribute it to those who have not worked hard for it like you have, you lose that freedom. This is why socialist states do not prosper. There is no motivation for hard work when it is punished and you could have the fruits of it for free. That is not what America stands for, or perhaps I should say used to stand for. Do you think YOU should have the power to say who is deserving of staying here and who is not? One can deserve nothing other that the right to himself, and that which he earns and produces.
Are we discussing his friend (which is what this thread is about) or are we discussing individuals who are in this country illegally and do not work or anything and leech off welfare? Because those two things are very different. As I said earlier, I agree with you if the people in question are using any of our programs meant to help citizens. But not all illegal immigrants are lazy bums; in fact, a majority of them are hard workers and come to this country because they have opportunities here that they can not find in their own country. Who are you to deny a human being the chance to provide for his family and to this country as well?
What do you mean you need to be a resident? Isn't he a resident if he lives in the US? Anyways, there are Canadians who have joined the US Marines, so i really don't see why he couldn't.
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: BatmanNate
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Well I do thank god that the majority of US citizens are not like you
What you fail to realize is that this country was built upon hard work, luck has nothing to do with it. The principles that define what America was then embraced independance and individualism to an extreme. Part of being independent and an individual is determining the course of your own life, and a big part of that life is the money you make which is a representation of your work tradable for the hard work of others on mutually consentual terms. Now, when someone comes along and tells you that they are going to take that money, the rights to your labor, and distribute it to those who have not worked hard for it like you have, you lose that freedom. This is why socialist states do not prosper. There is no motivation for hard work when it is punished and you could have the fruits of it for free. That is not what America stands for, or perhaps I should say used to stand for. Do you think YOU should have the power to say who is deserving of staying here and who is not? One can deserve nothing other that the right to himself, and that which he earns and produces.
Are we discussing his friend (which is what this thread is about) or are we discussing individuals who are in this country illegally and do not work or anything and leech off welfare? Because those two things are very different. As I said earlier, I agree with you if the people in question are using any of our programs meant to help citizens. But not all illegal immigrants are lazy bums; in fact, a majority of them are hard workers and come to this country because they have opportunities here that they can not find in their own country. Who are you to deny a human being the chance to provide for his family and to this country as well?
If you will read my original quoted comments toward the poster that I was responding to, you would see that I was commenting on anyone who lives off of the state, immigrant or citizen makes no difference. It's still socialized redistribution of wealth. I am not making these in reference to the thread's author, if his friend works and makes his own way then I have less problems with that as I would with citizens that live off of the state like looters.
Kerouactivist
Diamond Member
- Jul 12, 2001
- 4,665
- 0
- 76
Deportation is the most effective way to deal with your friend. He and his families have certainly violated many laws since they have been here. You admitted he has been working off the books, which is also a crime. He is twenty, I'm sure he has known for quite some time that he was not here legally.
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