Yeah, I love Mario Kart. Hell, I was playing it on my friend's Wii last night. I don't quite understand how people have gotten 'for all ages' and 'for children' mixed up so badly.
If they were releasing exclusive movies that were absolutely fantastic, but you could ONLY get them on VHS, I'd still buy them and watch them on my HDTV. Sure, I'd rather they were HD, but after about 30 seconds of lamenting that fact, you get sucked into the movie (or game) and forget about the resolution.
The issue has been address ad naseum, and it comes down to that very simple thing - HD or not, the Wii is great, and you're only missing out if you shun it for that single reason. I have yet to meet a person that has actually played the Wii and not loved it...even the graphics whores like yourself grudgingly admitted they were gonna go buy one after they played it for about 5 minutes.
Scarpozzi
Lifer
- Jun 13, 2000
- 26,392
- 1,780
- 126
Thank you Yoda....very wise.
Looking at the sports games that come with the Wii....it's obvious they weren't trying to break records with the graphics. Nintendo is focussing more on gameplay. What 3rd party programmers do is up to them. I don't doubt they'll screw up and try to make games that are beyond the Wii's capabilities. As long as Nintendo is releasing their own games, there's a chance you'll have some quality titles.
Because some people are more concerned about what other people think about them then actually having a good time.
I always wonder if the people who make the "zomg nintendoh is for kiddiez" argument have younger siblings. I assume no, since they don't understand the simple fun that games like Mario Kart can bring an entire family. I imagine I'll be seeing a three-generation span playing Wii over Christmas - possibly four if the great-grandparents feel up to a game.
- M4H
dr150
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2003
- 6,570
- 24
- 81
1.) This thread is lame.......................These arguments are unwinnable.
2.) If you have money, buy 2 or 3.
3.) If you don't have money, buy the one that's BEST for YOU.
However, The Obvious Retread on Sony Management:
a.) Priced themselves out of the market.
b.) Blu-ray is heading towards obscurity. Studios are heading in the other direction.
c.) Most games are 3rd party. No Sony advantage, not even with GTA any more.
d.) Sony makes equipment that's very difficult to develop for (graphically weaker looking games vs 360). Sony is arrogant (lack of developer support)......it should/will ULTIMATELY cost them with the bread and butter developers.
It's a pity that Sony management blew it on so many levels relative to the competition. They won't succeed with the PS3 as they have in the past.
2.) If you have money, buy 2 or 3.
3.) If you don't have money, buy the one that's BEST for YOU.
However, The Obvious Retread on Sony Management:
a.) Priced themselves out of the market.
b.) Blu-ray is heading towards obscurity. Studios are heading in the other direction.
c.) Most games are 3rd party. No Sony advantage, not even with GTA any more.
d.) Sony makes equipment that's very difficult to develop for (graphically weaker looking games vs 360). Sony is arrogant (lack of developer support)......it should/will ULTIMATELY cost them with the bread and butter developers.
It's a pity that Sony management blew it on so many levels relative to the competition. They won't succeed with the PS3 as they have in the past.
Thank you captain obvious.
If you can show me a thread worth reading where someone actually unequivocally *won* an argument and changed the mind of the OP or other posters, I'll give you a dollar.
It's a discussion for the sake of discussion.
purbeast0
No Lifer
- Sep 13, 2001
- 53,638
- 6,522
- 126
I have to agree with you and that bolded comment. That part of GoW is just unfreaking believable graphically. I was shocked at how fast the speed of the train was and how there was no framerate hit. Then when you face the Berserker and kill him ... yah, that is just breathtaking...
Now to the rest of your points ...
Why the hell are you comparing GoW to Mario Kart? Why can't you just play both and like both of them, and you don't have to be 7 to play mario kart. I still have my SNES hooked up, and mario kart never leaves it, and I play it w/my friends on my 50" DLP. Btw I'm 25 and my friends are around my age as well ....
Everyone is putting down Nintendo for not having hi-def. Sure it sucks for us who have hi-def televisions and of course we would like to see hi-def games. But what, 10% of all TV's out there are hi-def? Nintendo is catering to the masses. General consumers can't even tell the difference between HD and a DVD. Hell most people think that DVD is displaying in HD until told otherwise.
I have a Wii and a 360. It's the perfect combination. I'm sure I'll get a PS3 down the road when they are like $200 and have some games out that are actually worth playing.
From my experience graphics mean absolutely jacksh!t for games. In my house (80+ guys) yes, people play some of the new pretty games like GoW but there are a couple games that people have been playing since I moved in four years ago: Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye, and Mario Tennis. The graphics on those games are horrible by today's standards but everyone I know loves them.
I'm waiting for developers to wise up and start releasing thier own wireless golf club, baseball bat, gloves, etc... controllers. After that its all over the Nintendo and the Wii.
"Thanks for proof of concept, Nintendo!" - game devs
Even though konami has been doing it on the ps2 for a while now with thier music games.
"Thanks for proof of concept, Nintendo!" - game devs
Even though konami has been doing it on the ps2 for a while now with thier music games.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
The problem I have is the shelf of Wii games is already looking frightfully similar to the Gamecube shelf of the last 2 years...
Pokemon
Dora the Explorer
Spongebob
Pokemon
Dragonball
Super Monkey Ball
Rayman
Elebits
Pokemon
Chicken Little
Etc.
The games I didn't mention are either straight PC ports with reduced graphics that are available in better versions on other systems, console wide ports of the 1000th iteration of Madden Ultra Super Special Extra 3015AD Nut Scratch Edition, and Zelda and Metroid.
I have a feeling Zelda and Metroid will be the only reason I end up with a Wii, much like the Gamecube (which also included some Resident Evil titles)
Pokemon
Dora the Explorer
Spongebob
Pokemon
Dragonball
Super Monkey Ball
Rayman
Elebits
Pokemon
Chicken Little
Etc.
The games I didn't mention are either straight PC ports with reduced graphics that are available in better versions on other systems, console wide ports of the 1000th iteration of Madden Ultra Super Special Extra 3015AD Nut Scratch Edition, and Zelda and Metroid.
I have a feeling Zelda and Metroid will be the only reason I end up with a Wii, much like the Gamecube (which also included some Resident Evil titles)
It would have to be an awesome game for me to buy a controller just to play it... or two controllers if I wanted a friend to play along.
So far. I like the Wii. My arm is a little sore from Tennis but it is still fun. I don't like Zelda. Smash brothers and Mario will save it for me. 3rd party support is a must though and at this point it seems the Wii will go the way of the Gamecube.
Graphic wise. I am a little disappointed. Wii Sports (tennis specifically) lags sometimes. Which is quite annoying. Nintendo could have easily made the Wii 720P and gave it some more power. I would pay $300 for it, heck even $350.
I don't understand why Nintendo took the Wii to the next generation in terms of gameplay but kept it graphically the same. Some have contested that the GPU is capable of a bit more than what it is currently doing.
Maybe I have been spolied by the 360 and 1080P but Nintendo could have done a bit more with the Wii. I doubt component cables changes my mind about that.
Graphic wise. I am a little disappointed. Wii Sports (tennis specifically) lags sometimes. Which is quite annoying. Nintendo could have easily made the Wii 720P and gave it some more power. I would pay $300 for it, heck even $350.
I don't understand why Nintendo took the Wii to the next generation in terms of gameplay but kept it graphically the same. Some have contested that the GPU is capable of a bit more than what it is currently doing.
Maybe I have been spolied by the 360 and 1080P but Nintendo could have done a bit more with the Wii. I doubt component cables changes my mind about that.
I agree that 720p would have been nice, but also keep in mind that it takes developers more money and more time to develop a game in 720p than it does in 480p. Also, since the Wii and the GC have pretty much identical SDKs, studios that are familiar with GC development only need to learn how to program for the Wiimote. The development kits are familiar, readily available, and cheap.
Nintendo didn't just apply their philosophy of simplicity to game play. They made things simpler for everyone.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Not really? It's a matter of changing two lines of code to set the aspect ratio of the projection/view matrix from 4:3 to 16:9 and adjusting the CRTC to the right scan rate. Changing from 640x480 to 1920x1080 requires no changes in the game itself, that is the nature of vector based 3D graphics.
This however only increases edge resolution and smoothes jagged polygon edges. You would need higher resolution textures to take advantage of the increased fill detail a higher resolution screen allows, however keep in mind that most games are designed from an art standpoint to be the highest quality possible, then scaled down to achieve acceptable performance per specific platform; this is especially true in this day and age of concurrent releases across platforms. For example a 4096x4096 source image to be used as a texture might be saved as 512x512 for the 360 and 64x64 8 bit for the PS2.
Even if not for the 360?s 1080p, developers would still be designing artwork on the PC at detail far higher than any game machine or PC could utilize in real time. Where do you think techniques like normal mapping comes from? Requiring 100k poly models instead of 10k poly models to take advantage of a sharper screen resolution doesn?t cost anything more to developers when the original model was 1 million polys in Maya to begin with! Same goes for textures designed as 40 layers in a 16+ megapixel photoshop file.
Pretty graphics don't make a game more fun necessarily. I have more fun with Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer than Battlefield 2.
RTCW was released 2001, way before BF 2.
RTCW was released 2001, way before BF 2.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
at $350 i would not have baught a wii. i would have gotten a Xbox 360 only. and maybe when the PS3 drops in price to around $300 i would snag that.
right now i plan on getting a XBox this fall to have along side the wii. at $250 its in the price i do not mind spending for it.
mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
- 48,920
- 46
- 91
Yeah, exactly! Nintendo has tried many different non-conventional controllers over the years. All have been pretty unsuccessful. Why? Nobody wants to pay for a special controller to play one game, and no developer wants to develop for a controller that only a minority of the system's users have. It's a catch-22.
But Nintendo figured out the "trick" - they made the non-conventional controller the DEFAULT. Now everyone has one, and every developer will be willing to develop for it. The conventional controller is an add-on, but since they're just reusing the gamecube controller they know that many customers already have one (or four), and they're available pretty cheaply, so developers will be willing to develop for it.
DDR and Guitar Hero are notable exceptions in the long string of unconventional control devices that have failed for every company that has tried it. And there WAS a golf club shaped control device for the PS2 and Xbox, but I believe it failed. It also sucked, so that's probably why.
May have been said already, but w/e.
The 360 did not have 1080p support at launch, that was added into an update. The same could be done to add 720p support to the Wii (especially seeing as how the PS2 and XBOX both supported 720p - no reason the Wii's hardware can't handle it).
Comparing the gfx co-proc in a console to a PC video card is kind of irresponsible. We all know that consoles operate at a much higher efficiency than PC. Example: Xbox - an 800 MHz P-III.
The 360 did not have 1080p support at launch, that was added into an update. The same could be done to add 720p support to the Wii (especially seeing as how the PS2 and XBOX both supported 720p - no reason the Wii's hardware can't handle it).
Comparing the gfx co-proc in a console to a PC video card is kind of irresponsible. We all know that consoles operate at a much higher efficiency than PC. Example: Xbox - an 800 MHz P-III.
Poor fps can ruin a game especially if you do not have the option to reduce quality to optimize performance. In reality what needs to be done is more optimization on the programing side of games. This may be more particular to PC games but I think companies should stop pushing graphics and look at what the average joe has in their machine and optimize their game to look good and play nice on that.
Sorry totally worthless rant. I guess I'm getting pissed that my 2 7800gts aren't cutting it anymore.
Sorry totally worthless rant. I guess I'm getting pissed that my 2 7800gts aren't cutting it anymore.
Originally posted by: igowerf
Actually, it was a 733 MHz Celeron.
ah thx - I couldn't remember, but I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt
Just what I was going to say. There has NEVER been a secondary controller that succeeded - if it's doesnt come with the system, most people wont have it, and if most people wont have it, devs wont make games using it, and if devs wont make games using it, most people won't buy it in the first place...
And I wouldnt say DDR and GH succeded where others failed - you can still only use those controllers for DDR and GH - no different than the DK bongos, Samba de Amigo Sambas, etc
Next gen, everyone is going to be copying the Wiimote, just like they copied the rumble and analog stick. Sony and MS might put out a Wiimote type peripheral at some point, but that will only matter to fanboys to argue about it on the internet, most people simply arent going to use them.
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