My benches so far. Adding GTX480 SLI benches.

[Dribble]

Way to go... bashing this forum and promoting your own (and I don't mean HardOCP, obviously)... sheesh.

Tbh I find [H] forums pretty identical to anandtech, except I tend to respect Anand a bit more then Kyle who's a bit of an arrogant sob, and hence shows a lot more bias in his articles to whatever he likes/hates at the moment (e.g. you can't move on that site without running into eye infinity love articles).

 

[Madcatatlas]

i am not bashing the Anandtech site nor the other sub-Forums here
- nor am i promoting anything .. just stating the *obvious* differences between HardOCP Video forum and ATF Video.

You deny?


Thanks! The cool posters who refrain from personal attacks make it worthwhile.

With all due respect, the people who care and who HAVE a say in what you just expressed your opinion of, stay and make an effort to better things. You are saying you ran away because noone on ATF video forum reads anything.. i dont know at what point of reading your post i should say: cut the crap already.

I may be abit incoherant (spelling?) Anyway, ty Apoppin, for this :" clearly Keys is using higher settings which favor 480, as did I", this is basicly what i thought Keys would write in response to the questions about the discrepencies (spelling?), but no. Im not even blaming him, obviously he isnt too knowledgable (way more than me, but not enough to have made the obvious link you did) with benching GPUs.

Ty for the review Keys, heres a tip: If you include an index for your benchmark, make sure you include the items you list. Do i care very much? no, but it would be what i would do.

 

[apoppin]

Tbh I find [H] forums pretty identical to anandtech, except I tend to respect Anand a bit more then Kyle who's a bit of an arrogant sob, and hence shows a lot more bias in his articles to whatever he likes/hates at the moment (e.g. you can't move on that site without running into eye infinity love articles).

Are you a member there also?

Do you really think you can get away with a personal attack over there?
- like you can here?

From what i have observed, it just doesn't happen like here. That is the ONLY difference i am pointing out as a difference between *video* sub-forums; there is no mutual respect shown here by the members. i am certainly not talking about the main sites nor their respective reviews.

 

[apoppin]

With all due respect, the people who care and who HAVE a say in what you just expressed your opinion of, stay and make an effort to better things. You are saying you ran away because noone on ATF video forum reads anything.. i dont know at what point of reading your post i should say: cut the crap already.

i didn't "run away" and i am here now.

i pointed out rightly that someone *singled out* and attacked and accused of being a liar - just for helping the forums like Keys is doing - is a very bad thing.

 

[RussianSensation]

i used Ultra also for Call of Pripyat

GTX 480 at 25x16: 11.7/16.5/35.8
HD 5870 at 25x16: 10.1/13.5/22.1

Which one do you want to game with?

10-11 fps minimum / 13-16 avg??? To be honest, neither

Looks like GTX5xxx or HD6xxx is needed for 25x16 resolution or a dual gpu setup.

All NV needs is 2-3 AAA titles with heavy tessellation (that also seriously improves visuals) to sway the minds of many. It does look like a killer feature that the next gen ATI card must improve upon.

 

[apoppin]

10-11 fps minimum / 13-16 avg??? To be honest, neither

Looks like GTX5xxx or HD6xxx is needed for 25x16 resolution or a dual gpu setup.

All NV needs is 2-3 AAA titles with heavy tessellation (that also seriously improves visuals) to sway the minds of many. It does look like a killer feature that the next gen ATI card must improve upon.

Well, that is with ridiculous amounts of filtering and AA at 2560x1600.


The new title would be Metro 2033 and tessellation heavy games based on Unigine (which are due later this year)

Run Unigine 2.0 on a GTX 480 and then on a HD 5870. It runs slow on the GeForce but it is a slideshow on the Radeon

Right now i am attempting to OC either of my two HD 5870 to 1000 core to see if it can catch the GTX 480 but i will have to flash the BIOS of my Diamond reference card; the PowerColor HD 5870 PCS+ lacks voltage adjustment and will go no higher than 900 core.

 

[Madcatatlas]

i didn't "run away" and i am here now.

i pointed out rightly that someone *singled out* and attacked and accused of being a liar - just for helping the forums like Keys is doing - is a very bad thing.

I agree 100%, calling someone a liar is a bad thing. I think one must admit that even though the ATF forums are pretty clear on Focus group status, not all forum members are mature enough or are capable of correctly adapting to Keys status as both a moderator and a nVidia rep. (i said rep cause it wouldnt cut calling it anything else if we speak plainly)

(i`ve only been on these forums for some months, and i cant belive how many times this subject has showed up, one would think there would be either a 0 tolerance system in place, or the opposite, demanding 100% neutrallity from the moderator team. both are very hard to achieve without some negative impacts here and there)

this is my last offtopic post, feel free to delete it if you like

 

[tviceman]

Keys what if you took an off screen video (digital camera) of you booting up your pc with the hd5870, run cpu-z and gpu-z to verify the hardware, show CCC or whatever the ATI control panel is to verify the driver-level settings, load up stalker, verify the graphical configuration of the game, and then run the bechmark.

Then do all this with the geforce gtx480.

I know that sounds like a pain in the ass to do, but for those who don't believe you they'd have a much, much more difficult time refuting your video than your word.

 

[apoppin]

Keys what if you took an off screen video (digital camera) of you booting up your pc with the hd5870, run cpu-z and gpu-z to verify the hardware, show CCC or whatever the ATI control panel is to verify the driver-level settings, load up stalker, verify the graphical configuration of the game, and then run the bechmark.

Then do all this with the geforce gtx480.

I know that sounds like a pain in the ass to do, but for those who don't believe you they'd have a much, much more difficult time refuting your video than your word.

A video can be edited and the setting changed off camera; the HD 5870 could be underclocked if someone is dishonest. Keys has never been dishonest.

--The ones who do not want to believe will never believe. They are jealous as hell that someone has a GTX 480 and is willing to share benches. Key spent $400 of his own money on a HD 5870 to do this test; or do some think Nvidia sent it to him secretly?

Keys and i also did a similar test where we each purchased a HD 2900XT and a 8800-GTX 640 - there was never this kind of nastiness when we published our results here nor has Keys ever given any reason to doubt his personal integrity.

 

[tviceman]

A video can be edited and the setting changed off camera; the HD 5870 could be underclocked if someone is dishonest. Keys has never been dishonest.

--The ones who do not want to believe will never believe. They are jealous as hell that someone has a GTX 480 and is willing to share benches. Key spent $400 of his own money on a HD 5870 to do this test; or do some think Nvidia sent it to him secretly?

Keys and i also did a similar test where we each purchased a HD 2900XT and a 8800-GTX 640 - there was never this kind of nastiness when we published our results here nor has Keys ever given any reason to doubt his personal integrity.

I agree with everything you're saying and he shouldn't have to take the time to make a amateur, off-screen video of his benchmarks (that would be hard to edit and fake). Unfortunately, when results aren't what people want to see, they cry foul.

 

[Zebo]

GTX 480 Performance Testing

Nice review apoppin.

This will be my next card once they get power under control. I'm a silence freak and will not be throwing 300w in my loop again. Currently looking at 140mm x 3 rad so maybe I don't have turn fans up like I do with 295 which is also about 300w.

Is there anyway to under-volt this card? What effect does it have on temps and power? Can they even make a GX2?

 

[RussianSensation]

They are jealous as hell that someone has a GTX 480 and is willing to share benches.

Hey, I just glanced at your review here: http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=16475&all=1

Good job. I am surprised you omitted Metro 2033 and BF:BC2 as these are as demanding as Crysis. Yet you included some of the least demanding games like X3: TC, Call of Juarez, UT3, L4D and even Far Cry 2, that even a 9800GTX can run well. Also, you should have included 5970 for those interested in 25x16 resolution since clearly GTX480 or 5870 aren't cutting it.

Out of every single game you tested on that list at 1920x1200 with AA, the only games my 4890 cannot play maxed out are: Crysis, Call of Pripyat, and Arma 2 (and obviously Metro 2033 and BF:BC2). In none of these games did GTX480 provide any more playability over 5870, while running hotter, louder and being priced $100 more than a 5870 with an aftermarket cooler to boot!

So, either the price of GTX480 must come down at least $50, and it comes with an aftermarket cooler, or games full of tessallation must come out to take advantage of the goodness in GTX4xx series. Until then it's a superior performing card at lower resolutions, but an inferior price/performance card. I am sure it may surprise us in the future.

Also, I should note in your review you posted prices of 5850 at $330 and 5870 for $430. That's just not true:

5850 = $290 - http://www.ncixus.com/products/44144/900297/VISIONTEK/
5870 = $400 - http://www.ncixus.com/products/51826...-1GD/Gigabyte/

So now GTX470 costs 21% more than 5850, while GTX480 is 25% more than 5870 with an aftermarket cooler. Not to mention you can almost buy 2 x 5850s for the price of a single GTX480.

 

[Madcatatlas]

I agree with everything you're saying and he shouldn't have to take the time to make a amateur, off-screen video of his benchmarks (that would be hard to edit and fake). Unfortunately, when results aren't what people want to see, they cry foul.

reducing "people crying foul" to this, is basicly shooting yourself in the foot. but be my guest

 

[apoppin]

Hey, I just glanced at your review here: http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=16475&all=1

Good job. I am surprised you omitted Metro 2033 and BF:BC2 as these are as demanding as Crysis. Yet you included some of the least demanding games like X3: TC, Call of Juarez, UT3, L4D and even Far Cry 2, that even a 9800GTX can run well. Also, you should have included 5970 for those interested in 25x16 resolution since clearly GTX480 or 5870 aren't cutting it.

Out of every single game you tested on that list at 1920x1200 with AA, the only games my 4890 cannot play maxed out are: Crysis, Call of Pripyat, and Arma 2 (and obviously Metro 2033 and BF:BC2). In none of these games did GTX480 provide any more playability over 5870, while running hotter, louder and being priced $100 more than a 5870 with an aftermarket cooler to boot! http://www.ncixus.com/products/51826...-1GD/Gigabyte/

So, either the price of GTX480 must come down at least $50, and it comes with an aftermarket cooler, or games full of tessallation must come out to take advantage of the goodness in GTX4xx series. Until then it's a superior performing card at lower resolutions, but an inferior price/performance card. I am sure it may surprise us in the future.

Thanks. You are forgetting one thing; your 4890 cannot run DX11. It does make a difference to the visuals in the newer games that use it. AMD did not send me a 5970 and they are damn hard to find for any reasonable price; GTX 480 does not directly compete with 5970 in any way shape or form - single GPU vs. multi and cost is not the same.

Time constraints with brand new benches are the reason i benched what i did. Most of my benches are from my regular testing suite.

i had 7 days under NDA to do a complete review AND also bench HD 5870 (which i received from AMD that same week) - i had already benched GTX 280, HD 4870-X2 and 4870 in preparation for the review. i spent over 120 hours over 8 days doing the benching and the chart making, images and article.

if you notice, there are no features of the new GTX detailed in my review - just listed; it is a *performance* review - i figured rightly that people want to see performance; i will do the "features" including 2D surround vs Eyefinity, PhysX and CUDA later on as my article is a Series; and BFG10K will do his famous IQ analysis also in his own review.

For Part two - Overclocking results of GTX 480 (826/2200) vs Radeon HD 5870 (900/1300) - i will add Metro 2033 and Just Cause 2 as i am playing those games now.

GTX 480 is definitely faster than HD 5870. imo, Nvidia took a "2900XT" and made it the fastest single GPU. Whether you personally think the price to performance is too small or the TDP turns your off, Nvidia thinks it is a great answer. Vote with your wallet and buy what suits you.

i have both GTX 480 and HD 5870 (CrossFire)
- i love both !! They do not directly compete imo ... not on price nor on performance - they each occupy their own slot

Ultimately, this translates into NO price war between the two companies, i believe.


EDIT: As to the prices listed in my review, they are quite general. i did not pick the lowest prices but more of a median. If you substitute the lower pricing you gave me, it still does not affect the chart ranking.

Each card occupies its own price slot and do not *directly* compete
- this is different from what we are used to seeing. i do not believe that either AMD nor Nvidia wants another price war.

Not to mention you can almost buy 2 x 5850s for the price of a single GTX480.

So what? - those same two overclocked 5850 will also be cheaper than a single 5970 and they are quite competitive performance-wise.

 

[Keysplayr]

Keys what if you took an off screen video (digital camera) of you booting up your pc with the hd5870, run cpu-z and gpu-z to verify the hardware, show CCC or whatever the ATI control panel is to verify the driver-level settings, load up stalker, verify the graphical configuration of the game, and then run the bechmark.

Then do all this with the geforce gtx480.

I know that sounds like a pain in the ass to do, but for those who don't believe you they'd have a much, much more difficult time refuting your video than your word.

Waste of time. They'll find a way to cause any kind of reasonable doubt.

EDIT: Howz it going Mark..

 

[SolMiester]

No I just felt that you are trying to minimize the negative aspects and trying to scream your lungs out that it's good for XYZ. I'm just trying to balance things out so that if someone reads whatever you said that they don't get a wrong idea and somehow think it's an awesome earth shattering product like what you said it would be last week.

Well maybe it's not earth shattering but earth melting is almost the same thing right?

You dont want anyone to think the card is great period, because you dont, and you cant have anyone thinking that its better than yours...LOL
edit - fixed

 

[Dark4ng3l]

You dont want anyone to think the card is great period, because you dont, and you cant have anyone thinking that its better than you...LOL

Your right I can't have anyone thinking that a video card is better at rendering 3d graphics than I am! Wait what?

 

[SolMiester]

Well i for one am not bashing Keys, just questioning how 10 reviews from other sites all show an average of 10% and his shows 15%-35%.

I dont think the other review sites maxed everything to the same scale as Keys, but I could be wrong?!

 

[SolMiester]

Your right I can't have anyone thinking that a video card is better at rendering 3d graphics than I am! Wait what?

okay, fixed the spelling for ya!

 

[Dark4ng3l]

You dont want anyone to think the card is great period, because you dont, and you cant have anyone thinking that its better than yours...LOL
edit - fixed

Your right I can't have anyone thinking that a GTX480 is better than a 9700pro, 8500GT, 9800GT or HD5770 (every video card that I still own.. I might have a voodoo3 and a Radeon DDR 64 somewhere in my closet not sure if I still have em)... what?

 

[apoppin]

EDIT: Howz it going Mark..

Going good. i've been a little busy. Lot's of fun with GTX 480 and a pair of HD 5870s.

However, i am beyond frustration with the Radeons. They don't overclock past 900/1300 - what kind of comparison is that going to be vs. a GTX 480 that get 826/2200 ?
-- i was *hoping* for at least 950 and maybe 1000/1300

The Diamond reference 5870 is *locked* in the BIOS at 900/1300 in CCC and Afterburner.
-yet you can adjust the voltage.

The PowerColor non-reference (shorter & wider) has settings way beyond 1000/1500 !!
- yet the damn thing has NO voltage adjustment and only maxes out at 900/1300

So, i guess my only hope would be to flash the BIOS of the reference Diamond to another reference MSI 5870 - the MSI is clock-unlocked. But i borrowed that card from Dave and i don't want to have to buy him another if break it (out of warranty). The PowerColor is mine but it will not OC past 900/1300

Cliffs: Quandary. Other than that, great!

How about yourself? What do you think of the Radeon?

 

[Will Robinson]

Can't wait to see the GTX 480 turn out to be a smashing sales success,after all with people like Keys demonstrating its sheer awesomeness when compared to the HD5870...how could it turn out any other way...

 

[RussianSensation]

Thanks. You are forgetting one thing; your 4890 cannot run DX11. It does make a difference to the visuals in the newer games that use it.

Let's talk about DX11 in its current state.

For example, in BF:BC2, DX10 and DX11 are the same: "BC2 uses DirectX 11, but according to this interview, DX11 is mainly used to speed up soft shadow filtering. The DirectX 10 rendering path produces the same images." - techreport

Crysis isn't DX11 and still smokes 5870 and GTX480. Even without DX11, this game requires serious horsepower and looks better than almost everything else out there. This and Warhead is where GTX480 should have been 20% faster than 5870 but it just isn't for some reason.

IIRC, in Dirt 2 all you get is tessellation of the water puddles on the track so they behave more realistically and sprinkled character details in the crowd. For these small visual differences 5xxx series gets massively penalized (see 5770 and 5850) compared to GTX275 and 4890 in a very similar DX10 mode: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5830_11.html#sect1
At this point hardly anyone will accept that kind of a performance for only better water effects. Speaking of water effects, this isn't like comparing the difference in water Half-Life 2 with DX8 vs. DX9 paths: http://www.anandtech.com/show/1549/2 This better not be the direction of DX11 games.

The only game that takes DX11 to a new level is Metro 2033; but enable Tessallation and DoF and it's game over for current DX11 cards.

DX11 is meant for next gen cards, just like DX9 was meant for 2nd generation DX9 cards and DX10 was meant for 2nd generation DX10 cards.

I think this fall is going to be very sad when Crysis 2 comes out and these $400-500 videocard will cry. Everyone will wish for HD6xxx and GTX5xx ()

 

[Rubycon]

I think this fall is going to be very sad when Crysis 2 comes out and these $400-500 videocard will cry. Everyone will wish for HD6xxx and GTX5xx ()

Pour water on it. That will solve your problem.

Well perhaps but that 27 year old bottle of Scotch and some Black Sabbath will certainly make things better.

This is always the case. Remember when 3DMark kept getting new versions and your video cards would throw needles?

3DMark DisAdvantage is coming. Featuring DX 11.1 and testicleation.

 

[Keysplayr]

Going good. i've been a little busy. Lot's of fun with GTX 480 and a pair of HD 5870s.

However, i am beyond frustration with the Radeons. They don't overclock past 900/1300 - what kind of comparison is that going to be vs. a GTX 480 that get 826/2200 ?
-- i was *hoping* for at least 950 and maybe 1000/1300

The Diamond reference 5870 is *locked* in the BIOS at 900/1300 in CCC and Afterburner.
-yet you can adjust the voltage.

The PowerColor non-reference (shorter & wider) has settings way beyond 1000/1500 !!
- yet the damn thing has NO voltage adjustment and only maxes out at 900/1300

So, i guess my only hope would be to flash the BIOS of the reference Diamond to another reference MSI 5870 - the MSI is clock-unlocked. But i borrowed that card from Dave and i don't want to have to buy him another if break it (out of warranty). The PowerColor is mine but it will not OC past 900/1300

Cliffs: Quandary. Other than that, great!

How about yourself? What do you think of the Radeon?

Well, I can't really say I have the same prob as I am really not a big overclocker.
The cards are fast enough where we don't need to o/c them. That is just me though, I know many many others o/c out of sheer reflex!
I will try to o/c the 480 and see what it can do. 826/2200 you say? Core and shaders linked I would imagine?
I like the Radeon, it's definitely a powerful card, plays games without issue so far.
ARMA II actually pukes on this card, but it's the demo and I haven't tried it on the 480 yet to see if it pukes the same way.