- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,490
- 20,035
- 146
Show me the part in the Constitution that says courts may not control actions in the court room and limit rights to maintain order? Show me the part that allows ANY freedom in a court room.
If you think the bill of rights applies to you during court proceedings, go call a judge a bastard in court and see what happens. Scream out your latest political message during a trial and see what happens. Pray out loud during the proceedings and see what happens.
And... had you read the thread, you would have seen that someone just like you tried the Constitution argument already and had their ass handed to them.
I don't blame you Amused I misunderstood also and now think its even more stupid that she could be arrested before even getting past the metal detectors.
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,490
- 20,035
- 146
Baisc logic:
The court has a no headgear rule to maintain order.
The bailiff was enforcing that rule by not allowing her to enter until she conformed to the rules of order.
Her intent on breaking the rules of the court was evident before she had a chance to enter. She was informed of what she must do to adhere to the rules and refused.
Basic logic, my friend.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,954
- 18,108
- 126
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: sdifox
I am pretty sure the ban was universal, like I said. So we are agreeing with difficulty
I'm a difficult person.
My initial disagreement with you had to do with whether the judge's rule should be treated differently than a law.
Just saw your reply on Lemon. The education funding there had to do with whether or not the government giving parochial schools public tax dollars was a violation fo the separation of church and state. Funding isn't a law, but it is government action. Lemon is the go-to case for 1st amendment/religion cases. As you probably know, most SC cases have far larger implications than the facts at hand. The case may have dealt with nonpublic teacher compensation, but the case established the modern framework for government/religious interaction.
Personally against public funding of any religious schools.
I hope Ontario scrap the catholic education system soon. We can't afford 4 school systems.
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,490
- 20,035
- 146
Well, technically she was guilty of contempt of court. Showing disrespect to any part of the court is contempt.
Now, should the officer have let this little slip go? Probably... but then, we don;t really know how rude or insulting she was. Then again, maybe the officer's wife hasn't been putting out for months and his 15 year old daughter is preggers and has the clap? Who knows?
It does sound a bit severe, but she did technically break the rules and showed contempt.
But the media is the most egregious here. They have falsely attempted to portray this as her being jailed for wearing the Hijab... which is NOT true at all.
She muttered an expletive while walking away so no, she tried to enter knowing she had been allowed to wear her headscarf before, and thought an exception would be made again. When one wasn't she was justifiably upset outside of the courtroom and started to walk away which would have ended the situation. Instead she is sentenced to 10 days in jail.
She has every right to refuse and walk away, she didn't try busting into the courtroom.
Well I think it becomes a hijab issue because this women is jailed for a dumbass reason and we have to wonder why wasn't she allowed in the court to begin with? That is the bigger issue here because it has been an ongoing debate about how much we should accommodate religions.. a debate about cursing in courthouses isn't important so the media doesn't focus on that.
Originally posted by: Amused
She was still in the courthouse.
So if that's how it is, then why didn't they make her take her headscarf off outside of the courthouse?
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,490
- 20,035
- 146
I'll give you that. But you'll have to give me that the story as posted is EXTREMELY misleading. Especially the headline!!!
So... My opinion is, of course, that rules should apply equally regardless of race, sex or religion. We should all be equal under the law, and under court rules of order as well.
As for the arrest, yeah it seems extreme... but like I said: we have only her story as to how rude she was or what she said.
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,490
- 20,035
- 146
Originally posted by: darkxshade
Originally posted by: Amused
She was still in the courthouse.
So if that's how it is, then why didn't they make her take her headscarf off outside of the courthouse?
She didn't encounter any bailiffs until she hit the metal detectors outside the courtroom, obviously.
That's not the point, if they are going to enforce BS rules, then why not set something up outside to stop people who are already breaking them from entering the building? Because she got set up being allowed into the building and turned away but allowing her ample time to earn a 10 day jail sentence because she cussed while leaving.
I think maybe they could've emphasized the cursing earlier in the story but I am not as offended that they didn't. The key to the story here really is should she be singled out for her headscarf, I mean nobody cares to read a story titled "Woman Jailed for Cursing in Courthouse."
My opinion is that if the rule is not completely essential and it is causing these types of problems it should be eliminated. If you want your version of full equality, fine then let everyone wear hats because banning them is causing more problems than allowing them would.
My opinion is that if the rule is not completely essential and it is causing these types of problems it should be eliminated. If you want your version of full equality, fine then let everyone wear hats because banning them is causing more problems than allowing them would.
- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,911
- 10,749
- 147
Originally posted by: Amused
She was still in the courthouse.
Man, that's beyond weak and you know it. For the record, I have never seen nor heard of anyone ever being cited for contempt of court outside of the courtroom proper.
And, also, for the record, in previous times men entering the courthouse did not doff their hats until they entered the courtroom -- still do, in fact. The rule is for the courtroom proper, NOT the halls.
That's probably why they cut and ran when the press shone a light on their actions.
It was one big bigoted redneck overreaction, and would have never stood up to scrutiny.
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,490
- 20,035
- 146
The dress code applies in the court room. The basic court rules of contempt apply to any and all parts of the court.
You cannot walk into a court house and cuss the bailiffs. It will, at times, get you arrested.
She was not arrested for entering the building with a Hijab on. She was arrested for showing disrespect to a Bailiff. Had she just turned and left the building, or removed the Hijab and entered the court room, nothing would have happened. Instead she decided to cuss at a court employee which IS contempt of court. It doesn;t matter if she was coming or going. Showing contempt isn't okay just because you're walking away.
If it was as little as she makes it out to be, the bailiff should have let it slide. But we have only her side of the story. Maybe she was extremely rude, insulting and disruptive? Who knows?
In fairness just because we only have her side of the story does not mean you can just make up the other side of the story and imply she may have been extremely rude, insulting, or disruptive. There is no evidence to support that and it is coming from you out of thin air.
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,490
- 20,035
- 146
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: Amused
She was still in the courthouse.
Man, that's beyond weak and you know it. For the record, I have never seen nor heard of anyone ever being cited for contempt of court outside of the courtroom proper.
And, also, for the record, in previous times men entering the courthouse did not doff their hats until they entered the courtroom -- still do, in fact. The rule is for the courtroom proper, NOT the halls.
That's probably why they cut and ran when the press shone a light on their actions.
It was one big bigoted redneck overreaction, and would have never stood up to scrutiny.
"Valentine's husband, Omar Hall, said his wife was accompanying her nephew to a traffic citation hearing when officials stopped her at the metal detector and told her she would not be allowed in the courtroom with the head scarf, known as a hijab."
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
I don't care if your possibilities support my position or don't, I just don't see making stuff up as relevant. All we have are the facts as reported and that is all we can use to analyze the situation.
edit: making up possibilities is making stuff up.. anyway I think we're just getting petty now
edit: making up possibilities is making stuff up.. anyway I think we're just getting petty now
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter