Mueller talking to congress

[JEDIYoda]

So what? The issue is the Constitution & the rule of Law. The President is above the reach of the DoJ but not that of Congress. In that, the AG must provide them with whatever evidence they request to exercise oversight.

Blaming Mueller for anything is bullshit & exactly what Barr intends to happen.

Barr is one thing for Trump -- a tool!!!!

 

[fskimospy]

So what? The issue is the Constitution & the rule of Law. The President is above the reach of the DoJ but not that of Congress. In that, the AG must provide them with whatever evidence they request to exercise oversight.

Blaming Mueller for anything is bullshit & exactly what Barr intends to happen.

No, the president is not immune from indictment, as we've mentioned before that means he can choose to slaughter the entirety of the federal government and seize power at will and have that be 100% legal. The only thing that makes this argument are DOJ opinions from two presidents explicitly worried about being indicted.

There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that precludes Mueller from stating he would have chosen to indict Trump absent DOJ guidelines.

 

[cytg111]

I still hold the opinion that Mueller wimped out. The elephant in the room that no one has brought up is that Mueller *could have*, and IMO should have, reached a conclusion and stated it clearly in the report. Yes he could not indict, but that does not prevent him from reaching a conclusion and clearly saying so. Instead we got the obfuscated double talk that each side uses to reach the conclusion that fits their agenda. And no, I do not consider saying they could not prove him innocent to be a conclusion.

You recall the "I can land this plane" convo? I think Mueller more than subtly hints at what kind of restrictions he was working under... Anyway, this part of the report should give pause to everything else...

"There were obstructive acts going on, in one way or another, that prevented them from getting to the truth & as a result, on the collusion question, they weren't able to give a full sum account of what happened.".

Obstruction of the collusion investigation.
Now Fox++ is running rabid with "Mueller found no collusion, exonorated!".
Cause logic is not a thing anymore.
Its has gots electrolyteses.. Trumpses wants thems.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Oh, please. Mueller explained his reasoning & it's obviously quite sound. The decision as to what to do with the evidence he has found lies with Congress & no others. It moves to the higher realm of impeachment. Barr going beyond that & withholding the actual evidence usurps the power of Congress. He has no call to make, no legitimate say in the matter at all.

One thing to think about. Mueller was following existing regulations but then Barr came out and said that Mueller could have weighed in with conclusions of criminality. Since the AG is the ultimate authority in the DOJ, Barr has sanctioned Mueller doing just that before the House. If the members are smart enough to understand this act accordingly, Mr. Mueller may have more to say after all.

 

[JEDIYoda]

No, the president is not immune from indictment, as we've mentioned before that means he can choose to slaughter the entirety of the federal government and seize power at will and have that be 100% legal. The only thing that makes this argument are DOJ opinions from two presidents explicitly worried about being indicted.

There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that precludes Mueller from stating he would have chosen to indict Trump absent DOJ guidelines.

Let us say that he can be indicted for a crime...….so what?
The courts cannot impeach the president of the United States! Only both houses of Congress have that power!
So what is the disagreement again??

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No, the president is not immune from indictment, as we've mentioned before that means he can choose to slaughter the entirety of the federal government and seize power at will and have that be 100% legal. The only thing that makes this argument are DOJ opinions from two presidents explicitly worried about being indicted.

There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that precludes Mueller from stating he would have chosen to indict Trump absent DOJ guidelines.

That is true and as I just stated, Barr has given his blessing in at least naming Trump as a criminal. Barr has set a new de facto policy.

 

[JEDIYoda]

That is true and as I just stated, Barr has given his blessing in at least naming Trump as a criminal. Barr has set a new de facto policy.

after the fact..sneaky huh??

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Let us say that he can be indicted for a crime...….so what?
The courts cannot impeach the president of the United States! Only both houses of Congress have that power!
So what is the disagreement again??

Why it matters is that criminal justice may be had independently of impeachment. One holds a President liable for criminality where impeachment is merely removal at best. In reality, there is no either or. The GOP wants a criminal for their leader? Then they can be the Party of Prison Presidents. I think they will likely vote to impeach, even McConnell.

 

[fskimospy]

Let us say that he can be indicted for a crime...….so what?
The courts cannot impeach the president of the United States! Only both houses of Congress have that power!
So what is the disagreement again??

The disagreement is whether or not the president can be sanctioned for criminal activity by means other than Congress. I think there's zero in the Constitution that says otherwise because the result if that's the case is absolutely insane.

If the president is truly immune from arrest and indictment then if Congress tried to impeach him he could just have them all killed and no one could do anything about it. After all, he can't be arrested or indicted and the only people who could impeach him are dead. If they elect more reps just have them killed too.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

after the fact..sneaky huh??

Potentially as foolish a thing as Barr could do. He may be so sneaky he slinks into his own trap.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The GOP wants a criminal for their leader?

They voted for one didn't they? Despite all the evidence continue to support one, don't they? Why do we think anything a small as a criminal conviction would change their minds? They would just accuse the jury of being 12 angry Democrats.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

They voted for one didn't they? Despite all the evidence continue to support one, don't they? Why do we think anything a small as a criminal conviction would change their minds? They would just accuse the jury of being 12 angry Democrats.

So what if they don't? Trump is in prison and unable to fulfill his obligations as President and that leaves Pence to step in under the 25th, although I'm hardly a fan of him either.

 

[soundforbjt]

I'm wondering how Secret Service protection works if a former president goes to prison, hopefully we get to find out.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So what if they don't? Trump is in prison and unable to fulfill his obligations as President and that leaves Pence to step in under the 25th, although I'm hardly a fan of him either.

You have to figure it is best IMO having Trump as president in that regard...….
Because if Trump was not president and let us say pence became president, they could spin this as the Republicans taking back from Trump what they allowed him to steal and possibly make the 2020 elections a moot point -- as in 4 more years of having a Republican in the white house! Just a thought...

 

[SMOGZINN]

So what if they don't? Trump is in prison and unable to fulfill his obligations as President and that leaves Pence to step in under the 25th, although I'm hardly a fan of him either.

Yes. We have a contingency plan for that. The idea that a President is above the law is absurd.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I'm wondering how Secret Service protection works if a former president goes to prison, hopefully we get to find out.

Don't be silly. He is a rich white guy. Prison would inconvenience him. Think about how it would affect his life. I'm guessing that house arrest, every other weekend, is the most that he would get for any crime imaginable.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

One more thing about Trump becoming a convicted felon- He won't have a second term. While there is no Constitutional view to be had, the individual states determine their own requirements to stand for election. Some already have laws that would prevent a felon running in their state and I believe there are enough to make it impossible for Trump to have enough votes. Certainly in the case of a criminal President other states may want to add that prohibition.

 

[ivwshane]

It's clear that people won't read the actual report and my eyes rebel when I try.

But

Here is a FREE audible book, no strings nada. I'll start listening today.

Edit, yes there is a string of sorts. One has to start a free trial with a credit card so I did that and will cancel.

One more thing-

Searchable, indexed report in print.

A simple Google search for Mueller report will yield a link to a PDF you can download directly from the government.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Don't be silly. He is a rich white guy. Prison would inconvenience him. Think about how it would affect his life. I'm guessing that house arrest, every other weekend, is the most that he would get for any crime imaginable.

Any federal crime? you may be right, but that's not current reality. Remember NY? Our AG is looking at the Trump Org and anything which ties to that or any other activity that our state has jurisdiction over are being probed and that means shell corporations won't be recognized as a means of escape wherever they may be. If it ties back to NY, NY can seize it if there is criminality, even dissolve Trump's empire and take every cent. Then he'll be a broke ass white guy who will still owe millions or more in debt that he likely won't be able to deduct or go bankrupt over, and THEN we come to criminal consequences. No help from the Republicans. No protection from the office and "gofundme" to get a lawyer. Even his pension can be garnished if the courts wish although they may allow him some portion, perhaps media wage.

We also have laws about profiting from crimes so books? Yes please! Paid interviews? Absolutely. All donations gratefully accepted.

Maybe he'll only get a few years before parole, but no pardon, no money, and only rage at the four walls. S

Courts could deem him a public menace and a potential threat to state security and so communications cut off or curtailed, no interviews to pass on potentially coded messages or to foster rebellion, and isolation for his protection. The Secret Service can bring him burgers and KFC and sit on a stool outside his cell.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

A simple Google search for Mueller report will yield a link to a PDF you can download directly from the government.

Yep! I was thinking of the visually challenged and those who find reading legal documents tedious and I admit to the latter. My brain however is wired to be an auditory learner and I can listen to anything reasonably presented and retain it better.

 

[cytg111]

One thing to think about. Mueller was following existing regulations but then Barr came out and said that Mueller could have weighed in with conclusions of criminality. Since the AG is the ultimate authority in the DOJ, Barr has sanctioned Mueller doing just that before the House. If the members are smart enough to understand this act accordingly, Mr. Mueller may have more to say after all.

Actually that is what I got from his "I quit"... subpoena me please

 

[alien42]

Actually that is what I got from his "I quit"... summon me please

I think you mean subpoena, he isn't a demon.

 

[cytg111]

I think you mean subpoena, he isn't a demon.

- I have summoned my past self and rectified the situation.

 

[dank69]

I think you mean subpoena, he isn't a demon.

I'm not sure how you could rule out the possibility of Mueller being a demon.

 

[Maxima1]

This Barr guy is a real piece of work. He's insinuating the investigators may have done "little t".

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...px.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/