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MTA paying 6 figure salaries to 8000 people.

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Hacp said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/nyregion/03mta.html?ref=nyregion



I say lets pay these lazy union employees what they're worth: 25-30k a year! If conductors started making 25k instead of 250k, we might get out of this fiscal mess.
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So let me get this right. Some crazy sum bitch decides to work tons of OT and doesnt call in sick or take vacation days for years on end. Then decides to retire and get a payout for his unused time. And this is lazy?

Man i must be the laziest person in America i this is the bar for laziness. Damn him and his hard work for setting the lazy bar so high.
 
alphatarget1 said:
Hong Kong's public transit system are private, the fares are reasonable, workers are reasonably compensated, the services are good, and the companies are profitable.

I'm sure there are some metro areas in the US that could use better management in their public transportation agencies. The ones in the suburbs obviously have to be subsidized, but maybe NYC, Chicago, DC, can look into privatization.

There are tons of ways to make things more efficient. The government just isn't really interested in saving taxpayers money.
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Chicago runs massive surpluses for their MTA. They don't need to privatize.
 
I always love the Hacp raging about wages posts, especially because he's a college student living off of mommy and daddy. Its going to be such a shock if/when he graduates.
 
The San Francisco MTA laughs at these figures. First, in San Francisco, MUNI bus drivers have to be among the top 2 in pay in the country. Average paid is 60k. 25% make 80k a year. 83 Muni operators made 100k with overtime. The rate of unscheduled absenteeism for Muni operators is 15 percent. Drivers can call in sick one day and skip regular work and get overtime the next day even if they have not work a full 40 hours. 7 MUNI operators work full time on union related duties costing the City 608k in salary.

The agency is working to close a projected $16.9 million deficit for the current fiscal year, which ends June 30. The budget outlook is worse for next fiscal year, with the agency facing a $53 million deficit.

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Driver-salaries-fueling-deficit-84933332.html#ixzz0ppdJsIWh

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-05-...operators-overtime-road-during-off-peak-hours

These aren't people retiring and cashing in on their vacation time. This is every year, year after year with buses and trains never on time and fares increasing and service cuts. The MTA in NYC is miles ahead of the mess they have in San Francisco.
 
chowderhead said:
The San Francisco MTA laughs at these figures. First, in San Francisco, MUNI bus drivers have to be among the top 2 in pay in the country. Average paid is 60k. 25% make 80k a year. 83 Muni operators made 100k with overtime. The rate of unscheduled absenteeism for Muni operators is 15 percent. Drivers can call in sick one day and skip regular work and get overtime the next day even if they have not work a full 40 hours. 7 MUNI operators work full time on union related duties costing the City 608k in salary.
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If private companies paid their employees this much, they would have failed already. Not to worry, government can always steal(tax) hard earned money to fund the Unions.
 
Conductors don't do all that much. The engineers drive the trains.

I am so fucking glad I pay $280/mo for my Metro North MTA pass to allow them to get $100K for sick time they didn't take and then overtime.

This just goes to show how disconnected unionized employees are from the rest of the work force.
 
LegendKiller said:
Conductors don't do all that much. The engineers drive the trains.

I am so fucking glad I pay $280/mo for my Metro North MTA pass to allow them to get $100K for sick time they didn't take and then overtime.

This just goes to show how disconnected unionized employees are from the rest of the work force.
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I don't think you and few others really understand all that it takes to be the operator of a public train. This is not a school bus or taxi driver.
 
LegendKiller said:
I have a friend who is an engineer for NJT, I'll ask him how "hard" it is.

It isn't rocket science.
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Its not so much about how hard it is, but the responsibility. They make one mistake, hundreds of lives and millions in damage could be the result. I am not defending how much they make, but it is completely assinine to think these are not 6 figure jobs. And they have more responsibility than just running the train. The only job I can think of that has more responsibility when dealing the public in masses, are airplane pilots.
 
classy said:
Its not so much about how hard it is, but the responsibility. They make one mistake, hundreds of lives and millions in damage could be the result. I am not defending how much they make, but it is completely assinine to think these are not 6 figure jobs. And they have more responsibility than just running the train. The only job I can think of that has more responsibility when dealing the public in masses, are airplane pilots.
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So fucking what? There are tons of jobs whereby the "risk" is huge. That doesn't mean they should make that type of money.
 
Every pension plan is different. Many base the benefits on the best 5 years' income. Some include final sick and vacation payouts in the calculation, some don't. Some employers pay full value for sick benefits at retirement, some pay a %. Some employers cap sick benefits, some don't. Some allow vacation carry over, some don't. Virtually all modern pension plans demand employee contributions, deductions from their pay. It's impossible to tell wrt the MTA w/o knowing the details of their particular contract and pension plan.

Overtime? Management creates overtime, either by mistake or design, and it's common for senior employees to take it, so as to increase their pensions and their nest egg...

The whole bit wrt disability has nothing to do with the Union, their contract, or pension plan. It's between the claimant, the SS admin, and whatever state they live in.

By the time most of the posters here near retirement age, they'll wish they had a traditional pension instead of a 401K, particularly if they outlive their money. Walmart only needs just so many greeters, and it doesn't pay well enough to live on...
 
classy said:
Well name them? I know in the morning there are couple thousand folks on that train.
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Yes, I am one of them, my wife is another. That being said, I think their salaries are fucking ridiculous and are indicative of a sickness in the system. They want to raise rates 25% to be able to afford these moronic salaries.

What about a nuclear reactor officer. My buddy doesn't make 120K, yet he runs a nuclear reactor on an aircraft carrier. His fuckup could blow up 5,000 people, a $4.5bn piece of equipment (without equipment), and any surrounding ships.

Yet some union asshole makes far more than that.

I mean, really, if we want to gauge how much somebody should make based upon risk of harm to others, there are farmers who should make much more. Same with sanitation and water purification workers.
 
Jhhnn said:
Every pension plan is different. Many base the benefits on the best 5 years' income. Some include final sick and vacation payouts in the calculation, some don't. Some employers pay full value for sick benefits at retirement, some pay a %. Some employers cap sick benefits, some don't. Some allow vacation carry over, some don't. Virtually all modern pension plans demand employee contributions, deductions from their pay. It's impossible to tell wrt the MTA w/o knowing the details of their particular contract and pension plan.

Overtime? Management creates overtime, either by mistake or design, and it's common for senior employees to take it, so as to increase their pensions and their nest egg...

The whole bit wrt disability has nothing to do with the Union, their contract, or pension plan. It's between the claimant, the SS admin, and whatever state they live in.

By the time most of the posters here near retirement age, they'll wish they had a traditional pension instead of a 401K, particularly if they outlive their money. Walmart only needs just so many greeters, and it doesn't pay well enough to live on...
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Yeah, because pensions are sustainable. They aren't.

People treat pensions as if they are some sort of magical retirement pot of gold. The money comes from somewhere. If the stock market goes up or down, the same as a 401k, then where does the money come from? Ohh wait, from ticket purchasers (MTA) or taxpayers, who have to ultimately pay exorbitant amounts for comfortable pensions, when they themselves are the ones who face a double down (taxes and 401k).

What happens if we all went on pensions? Automatic bankruptcy or massive taxes, take your pick.

Usually overtime is governed by the fact that unions cap new hires, temp workers, or crafts. All of which practically destroy flexibility of business management for the employer.
 
LegendKiller said:
Yeah, because pensions are sustainable. They aren't.
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Not with the lootocracy running the country, promising increased pension benefits instead of raises, looting the company, riding off into the sunset, a la GM and others... Not to mention the usual flimflams wrt the stock market, and recently the bond market, too...

If what you offer is true wrt pensions, then it's obviously true wrt the alternatives, as well, if not more so. 401K plans are subject to divide and conquer rules, exorbitant managerial fees, and the same stock market manipulations as pensions.

I'll agree that many plans are over-promised, but that's not a function of design, but rather execution.

NYC doormen, fer crissakes, make $40K+ paid for healthcare+ gratuities... and caps on new hires are generally only implemented in another managerial ripoff scenario, multi-tiered wage systems, achieved by beating down unions... Temp workers? if America's financial elite had their way, everybody else would be temporary part time contract labor... and it's not like the MTA can really use temps, anyway, not when it comes to running the system...

And it's not like New Yorkers can't endure a rate increase, either- at $25/wk for an unlimited pass, less for monthly, it's a hugely good deal...
 
LegendKiller said:
Yeah, because pensions are sustainable. They aren't.

People treat pensions as if they are some sort of magical retirement pot of gold. The money comes from somewhere. If the stock market goes up or down, the same as a 401k, then where does the money come from? Ohh wait, from ticket purchasers (MTA) or taxpayers, who have to ultimately pay exorbitant amounts for comfortable pensions, when they themselves are the ones who face a double down (taxes and 401k).

What happens if we all went on pensions? Automatic bankruptcy or massive taxes, take your pick.

Usually overtime is governed by the fact that unions cap new hires, temp workers, or crafts. All of which practically destroy flexibility of business management for the employer.
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Pensions are 'unsustainable' because anytime they have good investment returns, the company and its accountants find a way to make it appear 'overfunded' so they can milk it. This is hardly a union problem.

What pensions are is expensive, as in 'not free'. Managed well, and with conservative accounting, they are of tremendous value to their members, who cover the cost via contributions (ie. deferred wages).

OT is governed by employers balancing all the drawbacks of new hires - whether this includes negotiated restrictions or not - with the higher wage to have their trained, experienced staff work longer hours. There are millions of hours of OT paid each year by non-union employers.
 
Hacp said:
Most of the job is automated. Just turn on autopilot and sit on your stool. Now tell me that is hard with a straight face.

I'll have a hard time getting in. The deal with union jobs is that unless you know someone, you're not getting in.
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1. Many, many salaried positions get overtime pay. Managerial levels tend not to, but your wonderful anecdote of "where I come from" doesn't really amount to crap.

In point of fact, I'm salaried and have been getting 'overtime' (which is MY world means I simply get paid for anything over 50 hours a week). In fact, last week I worked 58 hours of overtime (14 hours a day, 7 days a week).

2. If you truly think that's all a conductor does, I strongly suggest you get a clue. I'd wager you'd say that all an hourly person does in the big 3 is drop bolts in a hole, and you'd be so far off base it's ridiculous. Try being informed rather than spouting off random crap.

So we've got a conductor at a pay scale of $67k. That's probably in line with his responsibility level. Now, if he's working at 1.5 x pay for overtime, that means he worked 60 hours a week, or 11 hours a day during a 5 day week. Or perhaps 10 hours a day and then 10 on Saturday. Sounds pretty damn resonable to me. The REAL issue here is the benefit level that he's getting - vacation etc. It's ridiculous.
 
Pulsar, any well managed business, that runs trains, would not pay anyone 100,00 per year. Do you understand that?

-John
 
alphatarget1 said:
You are right. It's the management's problem that people get so much OT.

This doesn't happen very often in private employers because they have to control the costs, but not public agencies. AFAIK San Francisco is the same way.

Fire the management and privatize the MTA. I'm sure the bright minds in the private sector will find ways to make it run more efficient and maybe even profitable.
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Cite please. If you're going to make outrageous and idiotic statements like this, I'd like to see a cite.

The auto industry is a perfect example. They pay a ton of overtime, because their volume is so seasonal. During the ridiculously high volume periods they pay overtime, because that's much much smarter than hiring more employees.

Overtime is far CHEAPER than hiring more employees, because the burden (benefits package etc) is already paid for on employees who already work for you. So while you only pay an additional 50% per hour for them, hiring another employee will take their base salary, plus their benefit package (usually close to equal to their pay rate, sometimes more), plus the time for training etc, which would be more like 100-150% extra.

50% < 150%.
 
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