MTA paying 6 figure salaries to 8000 people.

[Zorkorist]

A friend of mine's dad makes like 100k at UP (Union Pacific) as an engineer, the one that actually drives the train or whatever.

Union Pacific is an entirely different thing.

An Engineer that makes $100k/yr on Union Pacific is onviously senior, and knows his stuff.

These fools are trying to tell me tey have 8,000 people worth 100,000/yr.

-John

 

[alphatarget1]

The auto industry is a perfect example. They pay a ton of overtime, because their volume is so seasonal. During the ridiculously high volume periods they pay overtime, because that's much much smarter than hiring more employees.

Overtime is far CHEAPER than hiring more employees, because the burden (benefits package etc) is already paid for on employees who already work for you. So while you only pay an additional 50% per hour for them, hiring another employee will take their base salary, plus their benefit package (usually close to equal to their pay rate, sometimes more), plus the time for training etc, which would be more like 100-150% extra.

50% < 150%.

Point taken. Public transit is not seasonal. Hell, a lot of government positions aren't. I don't have a source for you but it is widely known that CA prison guards get a ton of OT. If you have employees chronically working 50-60 hour weeks when they're only supposed to work for 40, then there is a management problem.

 

[Hacp]

Point taken. Public transit is not seasonal. Hell, a lot of government positions aren't. I don't have a source for you but it is widely known that CA prison guards get a ton of OT. If you have employees chronically working 50-60 hour weeks when they're only supposed to work for 40, then there is a management problem.

Management problem or simple government corruption?

 

[3chordcharlie]

You don't understand the basics...

There are not 8,000 conductors in the MTA.

There are x number of people with resposibility... and it is a lot less than 8,000.

-John

Oh, but I do. It's quite possible that a bus driver making 50-60k could reach 100k if they are also pulling 60 hour weeks.

100k isn't what it was 10-15 years ago. It's a nice pay rate, but it's not a 'magic number' anymore.

If it makes you feel better, most of the drivers probably hate their jobs because of asshole riders who do nothing but bitch at them and call them overpaid lazy union parasites.

 

[Bowfinger]

Neither of you have have psted anything to contradict me.

-John

That's because you haven't posted a single thing that's informed or factual. You're just parroting the talking points you've been programmed with, spouting the outrage you've been told you should feel, while remaining totally ignorant about the MTA specifically and the real world in general. Based on your asinine comments, I suspect that, like HACP, you're a teenage know-it-all, still living at home, with no meaningful work or life experience under your belt. You spend your days listening to wing-nut talk radio and hanging around web nutter sites like Free Republic where you can all high-five each other in mutual ignorant bliss.

Dismissed.

 

[Hacp]

Oh, but I do. It's quite possible that a bus driver making 50-60k could reach 100k if they are also pulling 60 hour weeks.

100k isn't what it was 10-15 years ago. It's a nice pay rate, but it's not a 'magic number' anymore.

If it makes you feel better, most of the drivers probably hate their jobs because of asshole riders who do nothing but bitch at them and call them overpaid lazy union parasites.

100k isn't magical? Its outrageous. Remember, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to do this job. You can probably hire some random college grad working in starbucks, train him for a couple of months and have him perform that job just as well as the people making 100k+ with overtime.

 

[classy]

Wealth redistribution.

Absolutely gross.

etc.

-John

You're an idiot.

 

[Zorkorist]

Sorry, Charlie,

But to most of us $100K is stll a huge number.

I realize that Government runs huge deficits... but it sue as hell ain't or shouldn't be to pay bus-drivers $100k.

-John

 

[Bowfinger]

60% of MTA budget is salary costs. If we can get that down even 10%, the MTA would be running at a surplus !

Yep, just like most businesses. And? Had you posted your OP with a comment about the MTA needing to tighten its belt, most people would be agreeing with you. Instead you post all this ignorant -- but wholly outraged -- prattle about how ridiculous it was for this guy to be making $250K a year, how it showed how wasteful government was, government employees are so overpaid, unions are evil, and on and on.

Only your outrage was (as usual) based on a myth. The guy wasn't making that much per year. It was a one-time payout when the guy retired. That's a common business practice, not unique to the MTA, not unique to government, not unique to unions. If you had any real world experience at all you might understand this. Since you don't, the smart thing to do would be shut your mouth, open your ears and eyes, and learn something about the way the world works. Instead, you're a good little puppet who believes whatever the nutter propaganda machine tells you to believe. There isn't the faintest hint of your brain ever once considering the accuracy of the crap you swallow and regurgitate on cue.

 

[Hacp]

Yep, just like most businesses. And? Had you posted your OP with a comment about the MTA needing to tighten its belt, most people would be agreeing with you. Instead you post all this ignorant -- but wholly outraged -- prattle about how ridiculous it was for this guy to be making $250K a year, how it showed how wasteful government was, government employees are so overpaid, unions are evil, and on and on.

Only your outrage was (as usual) based on a myth. The guy wasn't making that much per year. It was a one-time payout when the guy retired. That's a common business practice, not unique to the MTA, not unique to government, not unique to unions. If you had any real world experience at all you might understand this. Since you don't, the smart thing to do would be shut your mouth, open your ears and eyes, and learn something about the way the world works. Instead, you're a good little puppet who believes whatever the nutter propaganda machine tells you to believe. There isn't the faintest hint of your brain ever once considering the accuracy of the crap you swallow and regurgitate on cue.

Guess what? If private companies give too many of these one time payouts, then they will go broke. Not government though. They can always tax, or steal, the missing revenue.

 

[Bowfinger]

Worked a lot of OT.. or clocked the hours and sat on his ass doing nothing? We all know how government employees clock hours when they aren't working them. Just look at the census video.

Here is another example of you shooting off your mouth without having the slightest clue what you're talking about. "You all know" not because you have an iota of first hand experience, but because you mindlessly swallow whatever propaganda comes your way.

 

[Hacp]

Here is another example of you shooting off your mouth without having the slightest clue what you're talking about. "You all know" not because you have an iota of first hand experience, but because you mindlessly swallow whatever propaganda comes your way.

Its funny how you deny video evidence of census workers blatantly clocking in hours they didn't work. Government efficiency at its finest.

 

[Zorkorist]

Hey Bowfinger,

Governemt, and Unions aren't real world.

You understand that?

They both steal from the rich, and give to the poor.

Like Robin Hood,

-John

 

[Bowfinger]

Point taken. Public transit is not seasonal. Hell, a lot of government positions aren't. I don't have a source for you but it is widely known that CA prison guards get a ton of OT. If you have employees chronically working 50-60 hour weeks when they're only supposed to work for 40, then there is a management problem.

That's one of the few intelligent criticisms in this thread. That was my thought as well. If they were paying that much overtime, they needed more employees, or at least better employee scheduling. Not only is it costly to pay so much OT, but I don't want to put my safety into the hands of someone who is going to be burned out from overwork. Not well-managed.

 

[Zorkorist]

Sherriff of Nottingham, was great at corription.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

That's one of the few intelligent criticisms in this thread. That was my thought as well. If they were paying that much overtime, they needed more employees, or at least better employee scheduling. Not only is it costly to pay so much OT, but I don't want to put my safety into the hands of someone who is going to be burned out from overwork. Not well-managed.

We could have shot people, and stopped the transport business.

$100,000 or death.

-This is what Government hopes to achieve.

-John

 

[her209]

100k isn't magical? Its outrageous. Remember, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to do this job. You can probably hire some random college grad working in starbucks, train him for a couple of months and have him perform that job just as well as the people making 100k+ with overtime.

Too bad you don't qualify.

 

[Bowfinger]

Guess what? If private companies give too many of these one time payouts, then they will go broke. Not government though. They can always tax, or steal, the missing revenue.

More mindless parroting of the nutter propaganda with no clue what you're talking about. Unlike you, I've worked in both the public and private sector.

There is tremendous budget pressure within most government agencies. That's not to say there isn't waste in government. Of course there is. It's an inevitable byproduct of fallible and selfish people coupled with the poor accountability within larger organizations. If you want to see truly epic waste, however, spend time in a few Fortune 500 corporations. I've seen literally tens of millions of dollars at a time pissed away because some executive wanted to save face after a bad decision, or was trying to impress the new salesrep with the great rack. I know this doesn't match your indoctrination, but money is much easier to come by in large corporations.

(Small businesses usually don't suffer from this problem, at least not for long. You're correct for small businesses; they will fail if they aren't fairly efficient. Large corporations are an entirely different animal.)

 

[Zorkorist]

LOL, Obviously Bowfinger sunscribes to the, if we are only losing a dollar, but lose it lots! We are golden!

He has no idea.

-John

 

[Bowfinger]

Its funny how you deny video evidence of census workers blatantly clocking in hours they didn't work. Government efficiency at its finest.

No, you flaming moron, I'm not denying that the event happened. Having real-world experience, however, I understand it's another reasonable and common business practice for special activities like training classes. Did it "waste" a few dollars? Sure. But it's just not material because the volume isn't there. It's an occasional thing, perhaps only once in the entire work life of temporary employees like this. In the greater scheme of things it just doesn't matter.

This was all explained to you in that thread, had you bothered to step out of your echo chamber and open your mind. You didn't, so you keep repeating the nonsense and making yourself look like a fool.

 

[Zorkorist]

We should have MORE hapless, people, right Bowfinger?

More people with no idea what to do?

Lets teach our children religion, just to fuck them up, right?

-John

 

[Bowfinger]

Hey Bowfinger,

Governemt, and Unions aren't real world.

You understand that?

They both steal from the rich, and give to the poor.

Like Robin Hood,

-John

You. Are. An. Idiot.

You understand that?

Government and unions are very much a part of the real world. In the real world, things aren't as black and white as the voice on your radio tells you. Some government agencies are poorly managed. Others are quite well managed. Some unions are bloated and corrupt. Other unions offer just enough influence to ensure a level playing field when management and employees negotiate. Similarly, by the way, some private sector businesses are efficient and honest. Others are as incompetent and corrupt as your worst government stereotypes. You can't accept this, of course, because you're a bleating partisan sheep, incapable of rising above your brainwashing.

Your comment about government stealing from the rich is a perfect example of this. If you had the faintest glimmer of a clue, you would know that wealth transfer in the United States flows not from the rich to the poor, but rather from the middle class and upper middle class to the very elite few. This is readily supported by objective DATA about wealth distribution. but you naturally are incapable of parsing that data since it contradicts your faith.

No matter, clown on my friend. You're entertaining in a "look at that doofus playing in his own feces" sort of way.

 

[Bowfinger]

We could have shot people, and stopped the transport business.

$100,000 or death.

-This is what Government hopes to achieve.

-John

You remember when I said you're an idiot? I've apparently given you too much credit, and I'd like to apologize to any idiots I offended. That is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid comments I've ever read on P&N. Ever. That one comment by itself brought the P&N Overall Comment Intelligence Average down a good 20-25 IQ points. It is truly epic in its stupidity, the stuff of legends. Congratulations on substantially lowering the bar, no mean feat here to be sure.

 

[Bowfinger]

LOL, Obviously Bowfinger sunscribes to the, if we are only losing a dollar, but lose it lots! We are golden!

He has no idea.

-John

ROFL. I have no idea? Coming from you? That's rich. Get back to me in twenty years or so when you're out of high school and have actually done something useful with your life. For now I believe your mommy has your bottle ready for beddy-bye time.

 

[Zorkorist]

We should have MORE hapless, people, right Bowfinger?

More people with no idea what to do?

Lets teach our children religion, just to fuck them up, right?

-John

Answer the questiuon, rather than attack.

-John