MoveOn Mueller protests?

[umbrella39]

He literally stated on national television that he was obstructing justice and conservatives still argue it.

These aren't conservatives...

 

[Jhhnn]

Where are those official documents they spoke of? Which ones were used against Hillary? Why hasn't Trump been charged if the evidence is so clear and compelling? I don't know the answer to those questions, perhaps I simply haven't been paying attention. I would expect those to be a part of the ongoing investigation, but I would also expect action to be taken right away with clear evidence that can be prosecuted.
It always comes back to waiting for Muller.

You obfuscate magnificently. The intent of the meeting, as far as Trump's team was concerned, was to get dirt from the Russians. That's why they were there. Their denials hinge on the claim that the Russians didn't deliver.

They conspired to break election law, at the least.

You're not looking at this squarely & neither are Trumpists. The realization that they're marching with Russian mind fuck experts is more than they could bear so they just won't go there, at all.

 

[Greenman]

You obfuscate magnificently. The intent of the meeting, as far as Trump's team was concerned, was to get dirt from the Russians. That's why they were there. Their denials hinge on the claim that the Russians didn't deliver.

They conspired to break election law, at the least.

You're not looking at this squarely & neither are Trumpists. The realization that they're marching with Russian mind fuck experts is more than they could bear so they just won't go there, at all.

Thank you, I do try.
So getting "dirt" on someone from another country is illegal, but getting it from someone in the US is fine? I'm not trolling you here, I really don't know the answer to that. I assumed if the information was factual (or at least believable) no one much cared where it came from. Kind of like the hacked DNC emails were illegally obtained, but not all that many people cared because they painted a pretty sorry picture. The Trump dossier is another good one along those same lines.

 

[skull]

Thank you, I do try.
So getting "dirt" on someone from another country is illegal, but getting it from someone in the US is fine? I'm not trolling you here, I really don't know the answer to that. I assumed if the information was factual (or at least believable) no one much cared where it came from. Kind of like the hacked DNC emails were illegally obtained, but not all that many people cared because they painted a pretty sorry picture. The Trump dossier is another good one along those same lines.

No expert but not sure its the getting dirt thats illegal. Its the Mr Trump, Mr Putin was so generous helping you with your election heres what we need you to do to return the favor. We already know Trumps been very easy on Russia and sanctions...

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Thank you, I do try.
So getting "dirt" on someone from another country is illegal, but getting it from someone in the US is fine? I'm not trolling you here, I really don't know the answer to that. I assumed if the information was factual (or at least believable) no one much cared where it came from. Kind of like the hacked DNC emails were illegally obtained, but not all that many people cared because they painted a pretty sorry picture. The Trump dossier is another good one along those same lines.

Yes it’s fine to get dirt from a US citizen, it’s not fine to get dirt from a foreign intelligence agency. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes it’s fine to get dirt from a US citizen, it’s not fine to get dirt from a foreign intelligence agency. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Particularly when that hostile foreign intelligence agency broke American law in obtaining it.

 

[Greenman]

Yes it’s fine to get dirt from a US citizen, it’s not fine to get dirt from a foreign intelligence agency. Why is that so difficult to understand?

It's not, I just didn't know what the rule was.
So both parties were in the wrong with the Trump dossier. I wonder why that isn't being investigated?

 

[soundforbjt]

It's not, I just didn't know what the rule was.
So both parties were in the wrong with the Trump dossier. I wonder why that isn't being investigated?

First you have to prove the dossier was used prior the election to affect the outcome, it wasn't released until AFTER the election. Trump used the Russian hacked emails to affect the results before the election. There's the difference. One side used the info to gain an advantage.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It's not, I just didn't know what the rule was.
So both parties were in the wrong with the Trump dossier. I wonder why that isn't being investigated?

One party paid for the research and the other did not PLUS attempted to keep it secret.
One party was knowingly willing to accept stolen documents the other paid someone to create the documents.

Again its not that complicated.

 

[hal2kilo]

What sort of ridiculous idiot would think Trump is like Hitler?

It’s really hard to argue that the current Republican Party doesn’t have strong fascist echoes in how it conducts itself though.

Arguing with baby is pointless.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's not, I just didn't know what the rule was.
So both parties were in the wrong with the Trump dossier. I wonder why that isn't being investigated?

The whole argument reeks of false equivalency. Steele is not an agent of a hostile foreign intelligence agency. He didn't "give" any information to the Clinton campaign but was rather paid for his work, just like Cambridge Analytica. He didn't break US law in obtaining the info. It was never used by the campaign, either.

Steele was a trusted FBI source who turned it all over to them, as well. It's been investigated by them & by the HOR intelligence committee, mostly as a slime attack by Nunes & other GOP members.

 

[mikeymikec]

The logic of that escapes me. Why commit treason to win the white house?

Yeah, I totally can't imagine any politician wanting to pursue power for its own sake.

A job a whole bunch of people say he didn't really want.

IMO Trump just wanted to win for its own sake because his colossal ego and inferiority complex combined has a fair old appetite.

The only logical answer is the Russians have some serious dirt on Trump that they're using to control him, so they make him the most powerful man in the world?

I totally can't imagine any nation wanting to flip the highest-placed people to be loyal to them either! Your final question makes no sense: Having the US President in their pocket doesn't mean they've promoted him over themselves. Even an uncorrupted President doesn't have that authority. A President has a tonne of potential given to them (mainly in the form of resources, but also in the nature of their office), but if they're a puppet, that potential is at the disposal of their controller (assuming their controller has the intelligence and some luck required to keep their involvement a secret and not draw undue suspicion on such a possible connection).

 

[mikeymikec]

Yes it’s fine to get dirt from a US citizen, it’s not fine to get dirt from a foreign intelligence agency. Why is that so difficult to understand?

You haven't explained why not, which I think is necessary for some extraordinarily naive people here:

You have country X and country Y. Country X has Country X's interests at heart, Country Y has Country Y's.

In Country X, a presidential candidate wants dirt on their competitors. Country Y is offering them this. Country Y may ask for something in return (which may be something big, after all there was time and effort spent in gathering that information and maintaining contacts), but one in Country X must ask themselves why Country Y is doing this, because chances are that Country Y is not run by a bunch of freaking short-sighted idiots. Country Y likely has a vested interest in seeing a particular candidate win/lose because that will suit their interests in the longer term, for example. Those interests may be as simple as having that President in their pocket, or it may be say that President's foreign assets can be leveraged against them to Country Y's advantage. It could be that by having proof of that candidate asking for dirt is as valuable as having dirt on the other front-runner.

 

[cytg111]

Thank you, I do try.
So getting "dirt" on someone from another country is illegal, but getting it from someone in the US is fine? I'm not trolling you here, I really don't know the answer to that. I assumed if the information was factual (or at least believable) no one much cared where it came from. Kind of like the hacked DNC emails were illegally obtained, but not all that many people cared because they painted a pretty sorry picture. The Trump dossier is another good one along those same lines.

What? Russia began operation DNC emails the very same day Trump on live tv said "Russia, if you are listening..." and in continuation the whole weaponization of this content via wikileaks etc .. And you want to compare that with Steele, also a FBI asset, doing research into Trumps overseas "adventures" ?
YEA DUDE, TOTALLY THE SAME THING!!!
TOTALLY.
STOP WATCHING FOX, IT ROTS THE BRAIN.

 

[Greenman]

Yeah, I totally can't imagine any politician wanting to pursue power for its own sake.



IMO Trump just wanted to win for its own sake because his colossal ego and inferiority complex combined has a fair old appetite.



I totally can't imagine any nation wanting to flip the highest-placed people to be loyal to them either! Your final question makes no sense: Having the US President in their pocket doesn't mean they've promoted him over themselves. Even an uncorrupted President doesn't have that authority. A President has a tonne of potential given to them (mainly in the form of resources, but also in the nature of their office), but if they're a puppet, that potential is at the disposal of their controller (assuming their controller has the intelligence and some luck required to keep their involvement a secret and not draw undue suspicion on such a possible connection).

That potential can also be turned back against the Russians, that was my point. It's like a robber asking you to hold his gun while he counts the money he just stole from you.
I just don't buy it. The Russian puppet idea is a great little conspiracy theory, and if you hate Trump it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the mechanics of making it work aren't there, and the possible gains for Russia are far outweighed by the consequences of discovery.

 

[fskimospy]

It's not, I just didn't know what the rule was.
So both parties were in the wrong with the Trump dossier. I wonder why that isn't being investigated?

No, there was nothing wrong with the Trump dossier which is why nobody is investigating it. The Russian hacking of the DNC and subsequent effective donation to Trump’s campaign was very, very illegal.

That’s why the Trump one is being investigated. What Clinton did was 100% legal and it looks quite likely like Trump and his campaign committed an awful lot of felonies.

It is completely legal to hire anyone you want to help your campaign, US national or not. It is not legal to accept donations obtained through legal or criminal means by foreign nationals. That’s why the Trump/Russia connection is kind of a twofer.

 

[skull]

That potential can also be turned back against the Russians, that was my point. It's like a robber asking you to hold his gun while he counts the money he just stole from you.
I just don't buy it. The Russian puppet idea is a great little conspiracy theory, and if you hate Trump it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the mechanics of making it work aren't there, and the possible gains for Russia are far outweighed by the consequences of discovery.

What consequences of discovery? Its been proven the Russians interfered with the 2016 election and with puppet trump in charge there haven't been any consequences.

 

[mikeymikec]

That potential can also be turned back against the Russians, that was my point. It's like a robber asking you to hold his gun while he counts the money he just stole from you.

As can any situation involving a potential double agent. It doesn't mean that espionage isn't alive and well as far as at least every developed country is concerned.

I just don't buy it. The Russian puppet idea is a great little conspiracy theory, and if you hate Trump it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the mechanics of making it work aren't there, and the possible gains for Russia are far outweighed by the consequences of discovery.

So what if they're discovered? Putin had a huge guilty sign hanging over his head after Salisbury, it didn't matter. Anyone with a functioning brain and wasn't blinded by bias or naivety simply added further justification for not trusting the obvious bad guy.

What would change tomorrow if Trump was proven to be a Russian asset? Sure, Trump would be impeached/relieved of duty as soon as the GOP dusted off their spines from cold storage, and I imagine Putin would be disappointed that his attempts to roll back Russian sanctions would be set back (I doubt Trump is of any use in intelligence gathering terms, and I doubt that American intelligence services trust him with anything more sensitive than the location of the nearest Diet Coke machine unless they absolutely have to, and even then I imagine they'll be minimising his exposure both in terms of information and time), but it's a great PR job for the Russian media, and it further dissolves American public faith in their politicians. Win-win. The GOP could probably even spin it sufficiently in order to clean some of the shit that they've helped smear themselves with during his Presidency, so it doesn't end up destroying them completely.

Trump being exposed as a Russian asset wouldn't give me any positive feelings whatsoever. Personally I think Trump is a far greater threat to America because he's a cowardly bigot who is only interested in his own personal gain and popularity, rather than his potential of being a Russian asset.

 

[Jhhnn]

That potential can also be turned back against the Russians, that was my point. It's like a robber asking you to hold his gun while he counts the money he just stole from you.
I just don't buy it. The Russian puppet idea is a great little conspiracy theory, and if you hate Trump it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the mechanics of making it work aren't there, and the possible gains for Russia are far outweighed by the consequences of discovery.

They've already been discovered to have meddled on Trump's behalf. It was a masterful program of propaganda in the electronic age, an absolutely brilliant exploitation of hacking & social media. It's like you're trying to pretend that didn't happen. If their goal was nothing more than spreading hate & discontent in this country I'm sure they recognized Trump is a near perfect implement.

 

[cytg111]

That potential can also be turned back against the Russians, that was my point. It's like a robber asking you to hold his gun while he counts the money he just stole from you.
I just don't buy it. The Russian puppet idea is a great little conspiracy theory, and if you hate Trump it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the mechanics of making it work aren't there, and the possible gains for Russia are far outweighed by the consequences of discovery.

If its not on Fox, would you believe it?

 

[Greenman]

If its not on Fox, would you believe it?

Hard as it might be for you to believe, I don't watch Fox news, at all, ever. I know that doesn't fit well with you're preconceived notions, and I'm sorry about that, but we're stuck with it.

 

[zinfamous]

It's not, I just didn't know what the rule was.
So both parties were in the wrong with the Trump dossier. I wonder why that isn't being investigated?

Neither the Republican Donors and then later the DNC/Hillary campaign that paid for the research that eventually was contracted to Christopher Steele was illegal. That's incredibly straightforward. No laws were broken. When bot the GOP and the DNC paid for research against Trump. Everything was by-the-book.

Only the Trump family and campaign broke various election and campaign finance laws, including attempting to strike a specific deal with Russia/Putin to end the Magnistsky Act in exchange for illegally-obtained hacked emails (Wikileaks), from Russian Intelligence operatives--The Trump tower meeting with Jr, Cohen, Valnitskaya, et al.

That final statement reflects actual facts on the ground, by the way. There is no chance of denying the what has repeatedly been confirmed about that meeting.

 

[Jhhnn]

Neither the Republican Donors and then later the DNC/Hillary campaign that paid for the research that eventually was contracted to Christopher Steele was illegal. That's incredibly straightforward. No laws were broken. When bot the GOP and the DNC paid for research against Trump. Everything was by-the-book.

Only the Trump family and campaign broke various election and campaign finance laws, including attempting to strike a specific deal with Russia/Putin to end the Magnistsky Act in exchange for illegally-obtained hacked emails (Wikileaks), from Russian Intelligence operatives--The Trump tower meeting with Jr, Cohen, Valnitskaya, et al.

That final statement reflects actual facts on the ground, by the way. There is no chance of denying the what has repeatedly been confirmed about that meeting.

Not quite. The people at the meeting say the Russians didn't give them anything, that they were faked out. That's their story, and they're sticking to it. Oh, wait- Manafort was there, wasn't he? I wonder what he's saying now...

 

[Maxima1]

Not quite. The people at the meeting say the Russians didn't give them anything, that they were faked out. That's their story, and they're sticking to it. Oh, wait- Manafort was there, wasn't he? I wonder what he's saying now...

Manafort hasn't been cooperating exactly...

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics...9086047&id=59086047&__twitter_impression=true

 

[soundforbjt]

Hard as it might be for you to believe, I don't watch Fox news, at all, ever. I know that doesn't fit well with you're preconceived notions, and I'm sorry about that, but we're stuck with it.

Must get your views online or talk radio then, you're sure not watching CNN or MSNBC as your main diet.