MoveOn Mueller protests?

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,906
33,554
136
WHEN he does something then there will be a cause for alarm. Until then... Meh.

I do believe that the Mueller Probe should not be stopped or interfered with.
You realize it could be too late by then, like firing Mueller. Trump has just started the Constitutional crisis ball rolling. Except in this case Republicans don't have enough scruples to resign over Presidential abuse of power, ala Saturday Night Massacre
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,409
5,012
136
You might want to read up on that. Depending on particulars Trump may have broken the law and that is not speculation. You can read up on it as I did, but this is a time when doing your own homework is better. Or, you can stick with your position and run with it even if you are dead wrong.

Up to you.

I am not "Dead Wrong" as you put it. The law is pretty unsettled and has not been tested by the courts for this case. There is no settled law that prevents him from appointing Whitakers as acting AG.

I did read this link posted by someone else:
https://www.justsecurity.org/61386/...takers-power-influence-russia-investigations/

See my post above or read the article.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,249
55,797
136
WHEN he does something then there will be a cause for alarm. Until then... Meh.

I do believe that the Mueller Probe should not be stopped or interfered with.

I’m just going to leave this quote here. And no, Trump is not Hitler. It does rhyme with what is happening now though.

https://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’

"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

America is closer to fascism than many people think. This is the time to fight it because this is when it can still be stopped.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,249
55,797
136
If he wanted it stopped he could pull the plug today. This is Trump, he doesn't do subtle, the man kills fly's with a sledge hammer.

He is literally on the record dozens or hundreds of times stating he wants it stopped. He fired Sessions exclusively for the reason that he did not protect him from this investigation. That he wants it stopped is an incontrovertible fact that cannot be disputed.

So again, surely you agree that he is attempting to neuter the investigation, right?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,249
55,797
136
What do you think it will take to wake you up? What action by Trump would convince you he is out to obstruct justice?

He literally stated on national television that he was obstructing justice and conservatives still argue it.
 
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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
I’m just going to leave this quote here. And no, Trump is not Hitler. It does rhyme with what is happening now though.

https://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html



America is closer to fascism than many people think. This is the time to fight it because this is when it can still be stopped.

Chris Hedges was on the Intercepted podcast this week and touched on this.

So Italian fascism hearkened back to ancient Rome and the glory of the Roman Empire. German fascism harkened back to Teutonic myths and this. And we harken back to the iconography and language of Christianity, the fusion of, the sacralization of the state. So my great mentor at Harvard Divinity School, James Luther Adams was in Germany in 1936 and 1937 at the University of Heidelberg.

He watched Martin Heidegger begin his lectures with Nazi salute. He dropped out. He joined the confessing church with Niemöller, Bonhoeffer, Schweitzer, Karl Barth, and others. And he took lots of home movie film which he was picked up by the Gestapo and thrown out of Germany a year later. And I watched that film as he narrated in his apartment in Cambridge, Massachusetts, but much of it was of the so-called German Christian Church, which had on one side of the altar the Christian cross and on the other the Nazi swastika. And Adams told me — and this was in the early 80s, or told us —when you’re my age, he was then 80, you will all be fighting the Christian fascists. Because he understood that when you dispossess a working class, as we have done, and this was evident when I did the book on the Christian-right, the real world becomes so oppressive.


...

The most important lesson having come out of distressed societies, disintegrating societies is that every — societies are extremely fragile. And that the facade of that society will often appear monolithic and powerful but that they crumble from within and that’s where we are. And I think people have an emotionally hard time grasping that what seems so solid and permanent is in fact, ephemeral. So, especially among the educated elites. So, I wasn’t in Sarajevo at the inception of the war, but I was in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo, during the inception of the war and I would be out in the countryside and be stopped by the Kosovo Liberation Army and get back and tell my friends in Pristina who were multilingual, highly educated that I’d been stopped and they said “No, no the Kosovo Liberation Army doesn’t exist. It’s just created by the Serbs to justify oppression.” They had no idea what was happening until literally they were hauled out of their apartments by Serbian paramilitary and put on boxcars to Macedonia. And I think that that is the most important lesson.

This is a transcript, but I recommend listening to the interview, it's a better format for this interview.
https://theintercept.com/2018/11/07...cists-and-the-rot-within-the-american-system/
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,472
6,559
136
What do you think it will take to wake you up? What action by Trump would convince you he is out to obstruct justice?
Stopping the investigation would do it. But I really don't think that's going to happen. My hunch is it will finish after the 2020 elections. The fundamental problem here is that you all think Trump colluded with Russia to gain an advantage in the election. The logic of that escapes me. Why commit treason to win the white house? A job a whole bunch of people say he didn't really want. The only logical answer is the Russians have some serious dirt on Trump that they're using to control him, so they make him the most powerful man in the world? None of it makes sense to me, so I'll wait until the investigation is complete and accept whatever answers are provided. If he's guilty, off to jail he goes and good riddance. If he's not, the economy stays good, immigration policy gets straitened out, and we get some sort of reasonable single payer health care system, it will be Trump 2020 all the way.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,249
55,797
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Stopping the investigation would do it. But I really don't think that's going to happen. My hunch is it will finish after the 2020 elections.

If he didn't want to stop the investigation he would not have fired Sessions. Literally Trump's only complaint as to how Sessions was handling his job was that he was not sufficiently obstructing justice in regards to Mueller's investigation. There were zero other complaints. Zero. If you can think of another one, what is it?

The fundamental problem here is that you all think Trump colluded with Russia to gain an advantage in the election. The logic of that escapes me. Why commit treason to win the white house? A job a whole bunch of people say he didn't really want. The only logical answer is the Russians have some serious dirt on Trump that they're using to control him, so they make him the most powerful man in the world? None of it makes sense to me, so I'll wait until the investigation is complete and accept whatever answers are provided. If he's guilty, off to jail he goes and good riddance. If he's not, the economy stays good, immigration policy gets straitened out, and we get some sort of reasonable single payer health care system, it will be Trump 2020 all the way.

I don't really view that as a fundamental problem as the available evidence clearly shows he did exactly that. I mean we literally have his son in writing meeting with representatives of the Russian government for the purpose of gaining electoral advantage. This is the email, verbatim:

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump

They wrote their collusion down and then it was published in national newspapers. I mean seriously, what does it take?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,952
6,796
126
He literally stated on national television that he was obstructing justice and conservatives still argue it.
That was before he realized the truth was incriminating and he changed his story. He misspoke and conservatives, as good Christians, are very forgiving.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,952
6,796
126
Stopping the investigation would do it. But I really don't think that's going to happen. My hunch is it will finish after the 2020 elections. The fundamental problem here is that you all think Trump colluded with Russia to gain an advantage in the election. The logic of that escapes me. Why commit treason to win the white house? A job a whole bunch of people say he didn't really want. The only logical answer is the Russians have some serious dirt on Trump that they're using to control him, so they make him the most powerful man in the world? None of it makes sense to me, so I'll wait until the investigation is complete and accept whatever answers are provided. If he's guilty, off to jail he goes and good riddance. If he's not, the economy stays good, immigration policy gets straitened out, and we get some sort of reasonable single payer health care system, it will be Trump 2020 all the way.
I believe that the evidence he is attempting to and has obstructed justice is overwhelming and also that I have no hidden psychological motivations that cause me to have this belief as the result of personal bias. I can’t believe, therefore, that you are right and I am wrong. I don’t think I am particularly judgmental but rather go by real evidence. My conclusion, therefore, is that your opinion is based, either on a lack of data or wearing colored lenses or both to some degree. Occam’s Razor has to apply. A mind that avoids the simplest explanation is engaging in rationalization, but that isn’t possible if one isn’t looking at all the evidence, naturally.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,706
10,446
136
There was audio that Rachel Maddow aired on her show last night with the lead Mueller prosecutor explaining to a judge in Andrew Miller's suit exactly how someone like Whitaker can hinder the Investigation without firing Mueller. Basically, Whitaker has the power to block any action the special counsel wants to take, including blocking new indictments or new subpoenas or even issuing a final report. That's what his purpose is over the next few months. He will not fire Mueller as that would cross the "red line" GOP Congress established. But firing Mueller is now a moot point—he doesn’t even need to go there.

We may still see new indictments though, as there are plenty filed under seal. Not sure if Whitaker has the power to block those from being unsealed.

Here's the video--for the TL;DR version watch from about 14:55 to 19:35.
https://youtu.be/_pi_0RIq2qw
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Stopping the investigation would do it. But I really don't think that's going to happen. My hunch is it will finish after the 2020 elections. The fundamental problem here is that you all think Trump colluded with Russia to gain an advantage in the election. The logic of that escapes me. Why commit treason to win the white house? A job a whole bunch of people say he didn't really want. The only logical answer is the Russians have some serious dirt on Trump that they're using to control him, so they make him the most powerful man in the world? None of it makes sense to me, so I'll wait until the investigation is complete and accept whatever answers are provided. If he's guilty, off to jail he goes and good riddance. If he's not, the economy stays good, immigration policy gets straitened out, and we get some sort of reasonable single payer health care system, it will be Trump 2020 all the way.

I really don't think collusion is the case. I think he's had some illegal deals and/or tax things and he just doesn't want that being found in the process. The guy clearly has something to hide, the question is what.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,409
5,012
136
I really don't think collusion is the case. I think he's had some illegal deals and/or tax things and he just doesn't want that being found in the process. The guy clearly has something to hide, the question is what.


He is hiding that he is really Hitler in disguise.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,249
55,797
136
He is hiding that he is really Hitler in disguise.

What sort of ridiculous idiot would think Trump is like Hitler?

It’s really hard to argue that the current Republican Party doesn’t have strong fascist echoes in how it conducts itself though.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
If he wanted it stopped he could pull the plug today. This is Trump, he doesn't do subtle, the man kills fly's with a sledge hammer.

He can't kill the investigation that way because it's perfectly obvious that the Russians meddled in the election on his behalf in a variety of ways. Mere fact. What remains unresolved is if his campaign knowingly acted in concert with that effort, which would be highly illegal & disloyal to this country.

Russia isn't our friend. Putin wasn't trying to do us any favors. He knew full well that Trump's message was poisonous & divisive. It still is.

Trumpsters don't seem to care much about who they're traveling with. Putin's boys are fine by them, apparently.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,472
6,559
136
If he didn't want to stop the investigation he would not have fired Sessions. Literally Trump's only complaint as to how Sessions was handling his job was that he was not sufficiently obstructing justice in regards to Mueller's investigation. There were zero other complaints. Zero. If you can think of another one, what is it?



I don't really view that as a fundamental problem as the available evidence clearly shows he did exactly that. I mean we literally have his son in writing meeting with representatives of the Russian government for the purpose of gaining electoral advantage. This is the email, verbatim:



They wrote their collusion down and then it was published in national newspapers. I mean seriously, what does it take?
Where are those official documents they spoke of? Which ones were used against Hillary? Why hasn't Trump been charged if the evidence is so clear and compelling? I don't know the answer to those questions, perhaps I simply haven't been paying attention. I would expect those to be a part of the ongoing investigation, but I would also expect action to be taken right away with clear evidence that can be prosecuted.
It always comes back to waiting for Muller.
 
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