Captante
Lifer
- Oct 20, 2003
- 30,342
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The Voodoo 5 was by far the biggest flop of this bunch.
The 5800u wasn't as bad as folks seem to recall, if you replaced the stock fan it was very usable, S3 sucked completely before the Savage 2000 so had no expectations & Crossfire isn't a video card.
3DFX was king not too long before the 9700 Pro was released & the hype behind the Voodoo 5 was incredible... almost as bad as its performance after it hit the shelves.
The 5800u wasn't as bad as folks seem to recall, if you replaced the stock fan it was very usable, S3 sucked completely before the Savage 2000 so had no expectations & Crossfire isn't a video card.
3DFX was king not too long before the 9700 Pro was released & the hype behind the Voodoo 5 was incredible... almost as bad as its performance after it hit the shelves.
Have to be more specific it was the voodoo5 6000 as the Voodoo5 while technologically behind was a decent to good performer and sold well because of Glide games and the 3dfx name. The Voodoo5 6000 cost them millions in development (money that could have benn used on the almost finished Rampage) to get heat and power issues taken care of. The worst thing about it was the fact that they anounced it at all. Had they kept their mouths shut more people would have gotten the Voodoo5 5500 as the top performer instead of waiting for a card that was more rare then a unicorn.
S3 didn't suck as they were decent performers even if the graphice looked like crap, thats what made the 2000 worse, we were told that we would have another T&L hardware to speed games up and that it would be cheap but it actually slowed things down when enabled and made them look worse (which is a major accomplishment).
Crossfire should count as we are dealing with a GPU issue and not a MB issue, but maybe made litle more specific. Crossfire X8** is a failure because a single card is pretty much on everything but fear and COD2, capped by the CPU at rezs below 1600, and even 1600 at 60Hz is unexceptable. Why in the world would anyone think that it was a good option? This is after promising Crossfire in a couple of months way back in November. We are now a month away from a full year and are just now seeing life from it even though nothing is avaible. Also things like the bulky external cable, the select cards that get a Master version (which for the most part means you will have to buy a faster more expensive card and have it dumbed down), and still no word on wether the horrible southbridge problems have been taken care of(this is more mobo related).
More like Jim Jones or David Koresh. All you Nvidia fanboys will follow him to the bitter end, even drink his poisoned Kool-aid. Have no fear, the Nvidia mothership will be here soon to take you all away. Oct 5th is the day of reckoning... the same day Nvidia loses the performance crown.
Originally posted by: M0RPH
More like Jim Jones or David Koresh. All you Nvidia fanboys will follow him to the bitter end, even drink his poisoned Kool-aid. Have no fear, the Nvidia mothership will be here soon to take you all away. Oct 5th is the day of reckoning... the same day Nvidia loses the performance crown.
1. I'm a hobbyist with opinions like everyone else.
2. I note you didn't respond to my request for links on ATI taking back the "performance crown". I haven't seen any leaked benches of their upcoming products that support this, do you have some, or are you speculating?
I think everyone would like to see the basis of your position if you've seen some offshore leaked benches?
My position is not based on anything except a hunch, and the precedents that have come before throughout the history of PC graphics. Any time ATI or Nvidia come out with a new high end card, it always trumps the previously released high end card from the competitor. Even if it's only by a little. That's just the way things work and you know that. ATI would not be releasing this card (months late even) if they did not know that it would perform better than the 7800GTX. It would be a huge egg in their face. So I feel safe with my guess that the X1800XT will at the very least win most benchmarks... enough so that it is considered the new performance leader.
RageMAXX didn't, 8500 didn't, 5800U didn't. Why would you think that that would change. Its not like they have all the time in the world to after one company creates a card to compare for performance and design a card that can beat it. It takes years to design a core, work on the 2008 chips have already started trust me. So If a product was designed poorly they can't just do a 180 and pull a better core out of their butts or add infinite speed the thing. I think history shows that companies get it all wrong once and a while and it was thier turn to do it this time.
I should have said recent history, since the 5800 Ultra. Both Nvidia and ATI have learned from the 5800 Ultra launch so I don't think we're going to see that repeated. With that said, the 5800 Ultra launch wasn't quite the debacle that everyone is making it out to be. Despite the fact that it was overpriced and had a loud fan, it did win a lot of the benchmarks at the time.
Oh so your refering to the single refresh and 1 new generation. Why pick the worlds smallest sample to build a theory on?
Whatever. I don't really need to back up my hunches and speculations anyways. The Nvidia boys predicting how poorly R520 will do sure aren't backing up their positions with anything concrete. Just some highly questionable, unverifiable benchmarks. You have your theories, I have mine. 6 more days and all will be revealed.
Alright, now ive always defended ppl that contribute to the forum in a productive way, Rollo being no acception. On the other hand tho, there comes a limit to defending ppl and calling them Jesus when they have proven that they have been falable (sp?) in their past is just ignorant. Granted Rollo knows his stuff, and hes not as biased as some ppl on here make him out to be, but is nowhere near anything that u just called him. No offense, but your post made me laugh.
I am not saying it is fast or slower but history (the big Picture) has shown that a long delayed card is almost never better and most of the time part of the delay is them just trying to make enough up enough ground not to be completely destroyed.
True, but we still dont know exactly how good or bad the r520 will be. Go over to B3D, they got some interesting theories on how this thing might be designed, and what the implications of such designs are.
Except it was the fastest Glide card on the market, and thus the ultimate solution for Glide based games (although those games were definitely dying out at the time).
Not to forget the unprecedented AA it offered.
I guess you could argue that 3Dfx died shortly after, but IMHO the card wasn't a failure because it can still do things no other card can (without hacks). If you have some old favorite Glide games lying around there'd be no other card I'd want in my system to run them.
Based on that it would either be the Savage 2000 or the 5800U. Like you, I guess I never had expectations of E3, so my nod would go to the 5800U, so many downsides to a product that was no better if not worse than what you could have had with the 9700P, something the X18K could possibly repeat.
However even the 5800U was ?fast enough? to keep up. In that sense I?d say the Parhelia was a bigger disappointment. Matrox gave off the vibe that they?d be getting into the gaming card biz in a big way with Parhelia. The specs look right, and the extra features sounded incredible (triple monitor gaming). But the card wasn?t even fast enough for one monitor let alone 3. If I remember correctly it was about on par with a Radeon 8500 or GF4Ti when it should have been faster, especially for the arm and a leg that it cost.
Those are my list of failures on several product lines that should be voted on as well. here is why.
Are sure that the millions of Pentiums that were recalled do to a simple math computation isn?t a big issue. Or the Recall of your highest performing CPU because it crashes in intensive apps like an overclocked processor isn?t huge. The K5 almost killed AMD and if it weren?t for the quick purchase of Nextgen we would only have Intel CPUs right now. The Cyrix III was supposed to bring VIA/Cyrix up to Athlon/P3 levels and make good on VIAs purchase of both Cyrix and Centuar instead it acted more like a highly clocked Pentium or MII. Th winchips sucked but nothing was wrong with them and wouldn?t have killed them off because they weren?t relying on Intel or AMD lvl sales. The Prescott was hot and didn?t reach Intels goals but it was the most profitable ?bad Proc? ever. The only people who care about temps are us, and the only people who care that they changed performance routes is us.
The same thing applies to chipsets, as bad as SIS or Ali chipsets performed the were supposed to be the cheap cheap chips used in very low cost machines. The 820 Had to be recalled after millions of the boards were made because because they found out late that 3 Rambus sticks caused the board to become unstable. The 815 Was for the longest time the fastest and best Chipset they had for the P3, yet they based it on the sub-low class 810 chipset and had a horrible two memory stick limitation that only allowed for 512MB of memory. The KX133 was the defacto chipset to get for the Slot A Athlon, but VIA left out a communication feature that AMD included in their specification to later find out it was needed for the Thunderbird, Which killed of both the Slot A T-birds and Slocket adapters well before their time, even though the much older 750/751 chipset from AMD worked with both just fine. The Pro133 was the First PC133 motherboard out when Intel only had the BX chipset but the memory controller was so bad it would communicate at PC66 like speeds when it was set to PC133. This started the whole Asyncronous debate that still goes on till this day. The MVP4 was pretty much the only Super 7 chipset available (the Aladin5 was had to find only like 3 boards used it) but was so unstable that it has completely tarnished AMD products (or any non-intel product) as unstable and buggy something again survives to this day. So again Lackluster sales and below par sales of SiS and ALi aside these were all low times in computer chipset history. As for the Crossfire Chipset I was making mor fun of this thread then anything else.
There maybe some slow performing HDDs out there nothing was as bad as the lawsuits and problems of the 75GXP, this coming from someone who owned a 45GB version of the 75GXP and bought a 60GB version of the 75GXP. I also Purchased a 120GXP and a 7k400 and plan on picking up a T7k250 for one of my secondary systems. I loved and have never had problems with any of their products and will still by them if performance and price is right. But that Deathstar again is the biggest black eye a HDD manufacturer has ever had. Some of the other drives are bad performers or have a slightly higher failure rate but the 75GXP went far and above that.
Windows 9x I hate, simple as that. I hate them so I listed them.
trio 64 for the win. god that thing sucked. vote for the virge 2000 though, since my choice wasn't on there.
Suprised more nvidia fanbois haven't mentioned the whole 8500 Quake 3 debacle...*adds fuel to the fire*
I'm thinking, depending on availiblity of getting a Crossfire chipset and a 7800gt/gtx card.
Suprised more nvidia fanbois haven't mentioned the whole 8500 Quake 3 debacle...*adds fuel to the fire*
I'm thinking, depending on availiblity of getting a Crossfire chipset and a 7800gt/gtx card.
No offshore benchies, but here is a link that suggests the r580 will be released this fall. 32 pipes again This 32 pipe rumour just will not go away.
Ronin
Diamond Member
This fall...that would mean..within the next 3 months (since it's already fall). While I'd love to see them release the card, I don't think it's going to happen in that time frame.
Too many comments to read....but
How is crossfire a failure? It's not even released to the public yet, and we haven't even seen it perform with their new gen of cards.
How is crossfire a failure? It's not even released to the public yet, and we haven't even seen it perform with their new gen of cards.
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