Most liberal and conservative ATOT member ?

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic
The left leaning here on AT is due to the primary demographic on the board, i.e. college kids, or young priviledged affluents. The working class they claim to love and want to help actually dislikes them and is far more conservative.

I would agree with this. I would also point out that I was, at their age, a liberal leaning person as well. I even voted for Bill Clinton in '92.

Then I grew up.

Heh my darkest secret is that I voted for Carter


Not the first time but the 2nd.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

And yet... millions of people are still will to die to try and get in this country. And millions more have freedom to leave.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

And yet... millions of people are still will to die to try and get in this country. And millions more have freedom to leave.

sorry i never finished my thought...

i don't fault america for its policies. it's run by humans, and humans act on instinct. Any other superpower would act in the same manner, attempting to preserve its status.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

And yet... millions of people are still will to die to try and get in this country. And millions more have freedom to leave.

sorry i never finished my thought...

i don't fault america for its policies. it's run by humans, and humans act on instinct. Any other superpower would act in the same manner, attempting to preserve its status. anyway, if you're suggesting i leave the country because of my opinion, thn you have no understaning of what it means to be an "american". or maybe you do understand that it's all a facade, and you're actually more intelligent than you present yourself to be....

edit: people with your mindset contradict what it mean's to live in america...or so i'm told.

Funny all I saw there is the simple fact that unlike a lot of other places on this planet anyone can leave this country anytime they want, no questions asked, no exit visa required, no armed troops guarding the borders to keep you in. It is nothing more than the corollary to the idea that millions of people risk their lives to leave places that practice some of what was mentioned above to get to this country.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

And yet... millions of people are still will to die to try and get in this country. And millions more have freedom to leave.

sorry i never finished my thought...

i don't fault america for its policies. it's run by humans, and humans act on instinct. Any other superpower would act in the same manner, attempting to preserve its status. anyway, if you're suggesting i leave the country because of my opinion, thn you have no understaning of what it means to be an "american". or maybe you do understand that it's all a facade, and you're actually more intelligent than you present yourself to be....

edit: people with your mindset contradict what it mean's to live in america...or so i'm told.

Funny all I saw there is the simple fact that unlike a lot of other places on this planet anyone can leave this country anytime they want, no questions asked, no exit visa required, no armed troops guarding the borders to keep you in. It is nothing more than the corallary to the idea that millions of people risk their lives to leave places that practice some of what was mentioned above to get to this country.

sorry i guess i jumped to conclusions then...i thought she was suggesting i leave? anyway...i'll edit the comment out.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

And yet... millions of people are still will to die to try and get in this country. And millions more have freedom to leave.

sorry i never finished my thought...

i don't fault america for its policies. it's run by humans, and humans act on instinct. Any other superpower would act in the same manner, attempting to preserve its status. anyway, if you're suggesting i leave the country because of my opinion, thn you have no understaning of what it means to be an "american". or maybe you do understand that it's all a facade, and you're actually more intelligent than you present yourself to be....

I was not suggesting you stay or go. One of the great gifts of being able to live in the USA is freedom to express what you did above. And whether I agree with it or not, I will defend your right to speak you mind.

As far as seeing what this country is... well, I am neither blind, ignorant, nor foolish. The greatest, most important things that this country were founded on, have been twisted and spun untill they are grotesque. And the saddest part of the whole charade that our government portrays, is to keep the average joe so busy trying to make ends meet, and other ppl so bogged down in ignorance, that they dont have the time, or intellect to see the scams that are being pulled. But these things are not just prevalent in the USA. They are global, and those that speak out are labled 'haters, weirdos or unpatriotic'. This governt has perfected the art of making things seem what they are not, and havng people swallow it up, convinced that we love it.

As for what we do in other countries... I, too, have had the opportunity to live abroad and travel a bit. While we are not a perfect country, it amazes me how people love our money, and hate our help.

Cheers, Pers


edit: Wanted to add.... even with all our faults... this is without a doubt the greatest country on the planet. The freedoms that we have, and the opportunities we are afforded are unequaled!

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

And yet... millions of people are still will to die to try and get in this country. And millions more have freedom to leave.

sorry i never finished my thought...

i don't fault america for its policies. it's run by humans, and humans act on instinct. Any other superpower would act in the same manner, attempting to preserve its status. anyway, if you're suggesting i leave the country because of my opinion, thn you have no understaning of what it means to be an "american". or maybe you do understand that it's all a facade, and you're actually more intelligent than you present yourself to be....

I was not suggesting you stay or go. One of the great gifts of being able to live in the USA is freedom to express what you did above. And whether I agree with it or not, I will defend your right to speak you mind.

As far as seeing what this country is... well, I am neither blind, ignorant, nor foolish. The greatest, most important things that this country were founded on, have been twisted and spun untill they are grotesque. And the saddest part of the whole charade that our government portrays, is to keep the average joe so busy trying to make ends meet, and other ppl so bogged down in ignorance, that they dont have the time, or intellect to see the scams that are being pulled. But these things are not just prevalent in the USA. They are global, and those that speak out are labled 'haters, weirdos or unpatriotic'. This governt has perfected the art of making things seem what they are not, and havng people swallow it up, convinced that we love it.

As for what we do in other countries... I, too, have had the opportunity to live abroad and travel a bit. While we are not a perfect country, it amazes me how people love our money, and hate our help.

Cheers, Pers

again, my apologies. i didn't mean to come off completely rude, even though i probably did. But it wouldn't have been the first time someone had told me to leave the country because they objected to my views, so i was sort of anticipating a vile response.

i'm very interested in hearing about the countries that love our money but hate our help.... that would be great. Because you do understand our money goes to their corrupt governments... not to their people. we feed their corrupt governments...not the people. That money only encourages the existence of a government the people don't approve of. Could you imagine burger kings running a marketing campaign for mcdonalds? it just doesn't happen. We lend our support...and they continue to let us exploit their resources. who ends up paying the price? their citizens.


anyway, if you can present a scenario where people resent america even after helping them... that would be great, thanks. i'm gonna go for now tho.

 

[Wuffsunie]

I say Mwilding for hard core conservative.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Pers
conjur isn't even very liberal.


liberals - perknose, bali babydoc, todd33, moonbeam

conservatives - DARI, cadkindamoron, cpa, taggart


i think the liberals stand out more because most of what the conservatives have to say are either unintelligent, or rhetoric you could hear on fox news.

LOL, you should have added yourself to the list.

i'll admit it...i'm pretty liberal...

would i ever condone an abortion? no.
do i think the government should have the right to decide whether or not a woman should keep her fetus? no

let people live with their own sins... the government shouldn't have the right to restrict our free will... if people don't want to practice a partcular faith...they shouldn't have to.

i try my best to practice christianity...however when it comes to foreign policy, and tolerating american nationalism....i'm very liberal..

people can consider me "an american hater". I've gotten to live in foreign countries ...and was a first hand witness to america's attempts at trying to "democratize" a nation. And having been through all of that...i know america is full of sh!t. it wasn't just bush that was hated around the globe. america's corrupt policies didn't start 3.5 years ago. They've been in place for awhile, whether democrat or republican was president. It's how it has stayed a superpower. Darwinism comes to mind when i think about politics. Survival of the fittest... natural selection.... the weaker become overtaken by the powerful. drain their resources ...put them for your own use...and 300 years later blame african poverty for their own lack of intellect. unlike most american patriots... i don't sugarcoat our actions so i can sleep better at nights. so if that makes me a liberal commie, terrorist loving freedom hating american, than so be it? i consider myself someone with a conscience...you can call me what you please though.

Your ideals of free will are quite libertarian. May I ask, do you think free will should extend to economics as well? Would you agree that there can be no free will if the market is not free?

If you could extend your advocacy for free will to economic freedom I would say that, combined with your call for more isolationism makes you more libertarian than liberal.

As for me, many people confuse me for conservative because socialism is what I see as the biggest danger to our freedom today. I too believe that we should be free to "sin" as we choose, so long as we harm no one else. But I believe that Ayn Rand said it best:

"Intellectual freedom cannot exist without political freedom; political freedom cannot exist without economic freedom; a free mind and a free market are corollaries."

I believe in social AND economic freedom. Trying to have only one or the other is not, and cannot be called freedom.

I think the main idea lost on many young liberals is the freedom is NOT fair. It never will be because life is not fair. And the more you try to make it fair, the more freedoms you have to take away.

Equality of oportunity and equality under the law is not the same as equality of advantage or outcome. We must make our own advantages and outcome. And having the freedom to do so is paramount.

 

[robisgod]

isnt this the wrong forum?


dave "cardboard" mcowen and ripmoron

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: robisgod
isnt this the wrong forum?


dave "cardboard" mcowen and ripmoron

And your other username is?

 

[syconub]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: robisgod
isnt this the wrong forum?


dave "cardboard" mcowen and ripmoron

And your other username is?

^^lol

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

You seem to seriously misunderstand the guy. He has never come off as anything near arrogant to me, and he's much more logical than most people here, although he's a bit esoteric. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree.

Though I don't often agree with Moonbeam's stance on things, he seems to be truly awesome person and has been nothing but friendly with me.