And if you want to go even deeper read the comments on Breitbart or Infowars or the Drudge Report or any one of the far right mouthpieces to see how the right were celebrating this guy immediately after the attack.
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And if you want to go even deeper read the comments on Breitbart or Infowars or the Drudge Report or any one of the far right mouthpieces to see how the right were celebrating this guy immediately after the attack.
Come on man - You're better than this.
Comparing to Fox news is just not a reasonable assertion to the Republican party. I honestly hope you have the decency to realize this cognitive dissonance.
Quote all the media you like - I want you to quote me a Republican party member in todays times - that advocated for this - and the party didn't condemn it.
Anarchist Mae
Member
And there it is, the dumbest argument I've ever seen.
Well - since you stated such a fact....
Pull it out of your ass. Show me where either of those THREE crazy ass stupid websites stated that they were celebrating this terrorist shooter.
Do go ahead now.
Please.
I'm waiting
(Hint: I know it doesn't exist. Dig your hole further)
Anarchist Mae
Member
Yes, somehow the guy who says:
Is a leftist, and not in fact a right wing nazi. You must think we're stupid.
Is a leftist, and not in fact a right wing nazi. You must think we're stupid.
Keep digging bud. You're trying to say "Because he says that he doesn't like Y, and Z then that means he OBVIOUSLY identifies as an X"
Nice try moron, keeping digging further and further down your hole dumbass.
Hint: Here are some parts for since you're obviously too stupidly inept to read:
Anarchist Mae
Member
But previously you stated that:
Did you just think we'd forget that you're full of shit? He isn't far left, he's far right.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,236
- 14,236
- 136
Do you have any idea how many conservatives listen to Fox News? Do you know our POTUS listens to Fox News every day and actually takes action based on what they're saying?
No, I'm afraid it's you who doesn't get it. That kind of rhetoric, whether it was Fox News or some other equivalent outlet, is what caused this massacre because the reasons he gave for it are all expressed in conservative media constantly. I know, because I've read the manifesto and I've also listened to Fox News. Why are you even arguing this point when you claim to have no familiarity with at least one side of that equation?
So far as what GOP elected officials say, gee, you're right that none of them came out and cheered this on. Is that really even a question? They don't cheer for it on Fox News either. They just say bad thing after bad thing about Muslims, until some sick fuck who takes them seriously decides to go do something like this.
Sorry I should have clarified that was in the comments. But you are being obtuse now.
I honestly have given up hope having a rational argument with you. I'm not the one making assertions that "He IS this". I stated that based on his manifesto, he leans left. I'm not stating that as a fact like you valiant retards are stating he is an alt-right.
His manifesto could be a lie - but based on what it says it indicates left.
To paraphrase:
You: He is RIGHT WING / ALT-RIGHT / EXTREME RiGHT because..... No reasons. No facts. No quotes. No evidence. You're just retarded.
Me: I don't see anything indicating he is right-winged, but based on his manifesto (inserts quotes from it) these statements tend to align more with a leftist.
Do you know what cherry picking is? Because saying "X does it, therefore it's a big deal" is just that. I don't care if our stupid POTUS that I didn't vote for watches it.
"That kind of rhetoric is what caused this massacre"? Don't go citing facts or figures there bud. Just make random assertions.
You're honestly going down the rabbit hole. I honestly tend to have more respect for your posts over others, but random assertions like that out of "feelings" instead of "facts" just gets pathetic. You're getting FAR too partisan. You're making enemies of the media, just like righties do with leftist media. I honestly implore you to stop it.
In the comments hahaha. Ahhhh, so typical. I guess if I make a YouTube video and someone comments something that I therefore own their assertions even though I didn't make them or identify with them.
You dimwit fucking moron.
Anarchist Mae
Member
His actions speak clearly, he is a right wing terrorist. What exactly in his manifesto indicated that he's "left leaning" to you?
When Trump made up a load of rubbish about 'crowds of Muslims' celebrating 911, what do you think he was stirring up? What kind of attitude was that encouraging?
I think this is the same old 'Hitler was a socialist' sophistry.
Having an obsession with Muslims, seeing the world in terrms of some sort of clash of cultures, seeing immigration as some sort of conspiracy to 'replace' you, are all, by definition, right-wing fixations. This guy shares most elements of his world view with much of the right, unforutnately including parts of the supposed 'mainstream' right. Just like Brevik. And just like Brevik he cites some of those conservatives.
Edit - I agree there's at least a theoretical difference with the consistently libertarian right...but unfortunately that strand of the right has not always been consistent or at all fussy about who it accepts as allies (furthermore, in my opinion, that form of rightist breeds the other kind of rightest in reaction to the effect of its policies)
I don't think it is. Again and again, historically, what drives atrocity is a misplaced sense of victimhood, a feeling of an actually powerful group that they are under existential threat. The Germans felt themselves victims when they voted for Hitler. (I could chuck in a Star Wars quote about fear and hate, but I don't like Star Wars and it might be a bit glib in the context.)
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,236
- 14,236
- 136
I just told you that I've read both the manifesto and watched commentators on Fox News, and that the killer's rationale - all the things he believes about Muslims and immigrants - are the kinds of things I hear from Fox News commentators like Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, and Jeanine Pirro. What do you want, a point by point dissertation on the similarities? If you don't trust my comparison, then go listen and make up your own mind.
But massive, destabilising violence has been a constant of human existence (I'm still listening to this history podcast, and, my God, the Roman Empire was not a terribly stable institution!).
It's not clear to me we really disagree though. I just think people can overestimate the power of 'talking' and persuasion. I mean, ultimately, even as we talk, we rely on 'the police' to maintain the conditions for talking - and policing is always in the end dependent on the threat of violence. This killer was eventually apprehended via violence (running his car off the road, as I understand it).
I certainly don't have any ultimate answers to this kind of problem. I do think the most banal solution of 'restricting guns more' would have helped a lot though. I find it tragic and disappointing that NZ didn't impose the same restrictions Australia did after Port Arthur. Did they think they were surrounded by a magic field of protection that would prevent it happening there?
It seems to be always the way - countries only do the absolute bare minimum to make less likely only the exact same massacre that just happened [the exception being the US, which won't even do that much]. Same happened in the UK - after Hungerford they only banned the semi-auto rifles that were used in that instance, and it only dawned on people that handguns can be just as deadly after Dunblane. Dunblane could have been averted if legislators had shown a bit more imagination post-Hungerford. Even after Dunblane I'm not convinced we went far enough.
Maybe you can't solve the evil in people's hearts and heads, but you can make it harder for them to act on it.
Actually I did state initially that it was the comments sections that were celebrating not the websites themselves. However, if you have been broadcasting messages of hate and intolerance to your readership and feeding their fear of the other for years, as those websites have, them it's my opinion that you do own some of their comment.
You can disagree with my opinion, fine. But no need to be a wise and beautiful woman about it.
cytg111
Lifer
- Mar 17, 2008
- 25,301
- 14,792
- 136
Wtf dude .. if that is their audience and they ALLOW those comments to remain, in public, for everyone to see, then that IS factually what they are doing!!! I dont think this his hard math...
I think that says more about the current nature of the PRC than about this killer. I confess to finding it bizarre that it seems to have ended up, by a massively circuitous route, to resemble Pinochet's Chile as much as any thing else. But it's also far more complicated than that - there are multiple, contrary, traits present in that country and regime. It can't be said to be communist though. It's a capitalist economy.
DrDoug
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2014
- 3,580
- 1,629
- 136
If you want a link to a place where Trump supporting conservatives are celebrating this, just ask and I'll be more than happy to PM you one. Well, actually some of them aren't exactly celebrating the shooting since they believe the shooter didn't finish the job by going through the side rooms in the mosque. These are guys who will console another member when a pet dies and they are reveling in this.
But anyway, genuine Fox-loving conservatives who are enjoying this shooting to various degrees are but a request away. Oh, and there's more than one link to shitholes like these.
ETA: Here's a taste from a good Trump-loving conservative in Michigan:
I laugh at the idea of this moron having the attention span to read that shitpost of a manifesto. This post is mild compared to many other conservatives there who have no problem being very expressive about this. There are a few trying to talk sense to these guys but they are badly outnumbered by the haters.
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Don't worry guys, white nationalism isn't a threat and it's only a small group:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47592271
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47592271
He's been trolling since he entered the thread. It just took a couple of posts for him to find the right bait. The first ones didn't get much, if any, reaction so he just fell back on the "he's not really a right winger" talking point that's being so heavily promoted right now. That one usually gets a good reaction no matter when/where it's used.
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