News Mosque shooting in Christchurch, New Zealand - At least 49 dead

[pmv]

Well, I just answered that in my post to you.

"Later, in the spring 2008, as Clinton’s chances of winning the Democratic primary grew thin, some of her hardcore supporters circulated rumors that Obama may not be a U.S. citizen, picking up on some of Martin’s innuendo and extending it further."

I mean, you can try and claim that in the context of the contemporary US Clinton fans constitute some sort of 'relative' left, but that doesn't work either, because in the context of that fight, of Hilary vs Obama, there is no sense in which they were slandering Obama because they thought he was too conservative, no way that they were doing that as representatives of 'leftism'. On the contrary, there has always been a strong streak of technocratic centrism around the Clintons, and in attacking Obama that way they were, insofar as it was anything more than purely personal ambition, acting for _the right_.

Now if you could show, say, Bernie Sanders using racism as a means of pushing an actual leftist agenda, then, maybe. But, while he might not have been particularly up-to-speed or aware of racial issues, I don't see any sign of his coming out with anything akin to 'superpredators'.

 

[pmv]

Yes. Are you under the impression that Clinton supporters are not? Hillary Clinton?

I have fallen out with at least one friend because as a hard-core Hillary fan they are quite hostile to the left. Hillary was always a centrist at best. Maybe by the last election she had tacked leftwards (and make no mistake I urged dissapointed Bernie fans to vote for her over Trump - not doing so would have been appalling pettiness), but she certainly didn't represent 'the left' when fighting for the nomination with Obama.

 

[HomerJS]

The system that led to this point doesn’t solely ride on the backs of the right even if this guy is an alt right lunatic. Our society is embroiled in a very hyperpartisan cold civil war and there is an enormous amount of anger and finger pointing going on and the whole thing is exacerbated by the internet as has become painfully evident with this evil pos. The left and right feed off of a hatred for each other, like it’s necessary to have someone to be against as a was to rationalize their own being. This results in immense hatred towards Muslims and Latinos and Whites as these monolithic groups to point blame at for whatever your woes may be. The nutcases like the NZ shooter or the Dallas shooter I mentioned earlier are triggered by this into performing these acts of violence. Society looks back and said how could this have happened, it’s their fault! like they usually do and the cycle continues.

Stop with the #bothsides bullshit.

Hating someone for their behavior is completely different from hating someone just for who they are.

I don't recall anyone in this forum espousing hate for white people just because they are white. But this country is full of racist hate for people of color just because of who they are. I started what is now over a 30 page thread about law enforcement being turned on black people just for existing.

 

[Anarchist Mae]

Yes. Are you under the impression that Clinton supporters are not? Hillary Clinton?

They're center-right my friend, at best.

 

[HomerJS]

Well, I just answered that in my post to you.

"Later, in the spring 2008, as Clinton’s chances of winning the Democratic primary grew thin, some of her hardcore supporters circulated rumors that Obama may not be a U.S. citizen, picking up on some of Martin’s innuendo and extending it further."

I already created a thread that officially debunks this rumor. One person forwarding an email does not a campaign make. Did anyone create an ad, go on the media with this racist bullshit conspiracy theory?

 

[realibrad]

I already created a thread that officially debunks this rumor. One person forwarding an email does not a campaign make. Did anyone create an ad, go on the media with this racist bullshit conspiracy theory?

What does that have to do with what I said. Why is it that I say something that is factual and you respond as if I have said something else?

The birtherism thing started from people on the left. Not too further a left agenda. Not as part of Hillary's campaign. What I said was that it was something started on the left.

So why are you going on about campaigns?

 

[pmv]

What does that have to do with what I said. Why is it that I say something that is factual and you respond as if I have said something else?

The birtherism thing started from people on the left. Not too further a left agenda. Not as part of Hillary's campaign. What I said was that it was something started on the left.

So why are you going on about campaigns?

You are engaging in pure quibbling for no purpose.

What matters is what the purpose of it was, not where the individuals involved can be said to stand on some political spectrum (that in fact depends entirely on where you are standing and how you measure it).

It did not start as a political tactic to further the interests of leftism. At most you could argue it was used as part of an internecine, essentially non-political, disupte between some centrists. And I tend to think it was used in the interests of _the right_ - Clinton being marginally to the right of Obama (certainly on foreign policy).

What matters is the relative positions of those using it vs those targeted by it, not some imaginary absolute positioning of those who employed it.

And that's leaving to one side HomerJS's point, which is a whole other problem with your claim.

 

[kage69]

Great article by Aja Romano. Learning from years of online right-wing extremism, the shooter made his manifesto a weaponized shitpost

"By drawing on meme culture, and naming a polarizing central figure within meme culture, the alleged shooter ensured that debate would arise around those details, rather than uniting people in standing against hateful rhetoric and violent acts."

 

[realibrad]

You are engaging in pure quibbling for no purpose.

What matters is what the purpose of it was, not where the individuals involved can be said to stand on some political spectrum (that in fact depends entirely on where you are standing and how you measure it).

It did not start as a political tactic to further the interests of leftism. At most you could argue it was used as part of an internecine, essentially non-political, disupte between some centrists. And I tend to think it was used in the interests of _the right_ - Clinton being marginally to the right of Obama (certainly on foreign policy).

What matters is the relative positions of those using it vs those targeted by it, not some imaginary absolute positioning of those who employed it.

And that's leaving to one side HomerJS's point, which is a whole other problem with your claim.

You are engaging in pure quibbling for no purpose.

What matters is what the purpose of it was, not where the individuals involved can be said to stand on some political spectrum (that in fact depends entirely on where you are standing and how you measure it).

It did not start as a political tactic to further the interests of leftism. At most you could argue it was used as part of an internecine, essentially non-political, disupte between some centrists. And I tend to think it was used in the interests of _the right_ - Clinton being marginally to the right of Obama (certainly on foreign policy).

What matters is the relative positions of those using it vs those targeted by it, not some imaginary absolute positioning of those who employed it.

And that's leaving to one side HomerJS's point, which is a whole other problem with your claim.

You are speaking out of your ass. The reason birtherism was brought up was to show crazy things came before Trump. Further, I was not the one that brought it up.

 

[pmv]

You are speaking out of your ass. The reason birtherism was brought up was to show crazy things came before Trump. Further, I was not the one that brought it up.

Calm down, maybe?

 

[brycejones]

The system that led to this point doesn’t solely ride on the backs of the right even if this guy is an alt right lunatic. Our society is embroiled in a very hyperpartisan cold civil war and there is an enormous amount of anger and finger pointing going on and the whole thing is exacerbated by the internet as has become painfully evident with this evil pos. The left and right feed off of a hatred for each other, like it’s necessary to have someone to be against as a was to rationalize their own being. This results in immense hatred towards Muslims and Latinos and Whites as these monolithic groups to point blame at for whatever your woes may be. The nutcases like the NZ shooter or the Dallas shooter I mentioned earlier are triggered by this into performing these acts of violence. Society looks back and said how could this have happened, it’s their fault! like they usually do and the cycle continues.

Let me give you the response you appear to desire.

Fuck you.

 

[pmv]

The system that led to this point doesn’t solely ride on the backs of the right even if this guy is an alt right lunatic. Our society is embroiled in a very hyperpartisan cold civil war and there is an enormous amount of anger and finger pointing going on and the whole thing is exacerbated by the internet as has become painfully evident with this evil pos. The left and right feed off of a hatred for each other, like it’s necessary to have someone to be against as a was to rationalize their own being. This results in immense hatred towards Muslims and Latinos and Whites as these monolithic groups to point blame at for whatever your woes may be. The nutcases like the NZ shooter or the Dallas shooter I mentioned earlier are triggered by this into performing these acts of violence. Society looks back and said how could this have happened, it’s their fault! like they usually do and the cycle continues.

This is a subtly obfuscated form of victim-blaming. Peoople are forced to hate Muslims and Latinos because of the 'finger pointing' of the left and right? Really? And 'whites' are on a par with Muslims and Latinos in terms of experiencing the concequences of hatred? You sure?

You aren't so far gone as to justify or forgive the massacre, I give you that much. But you still seem to be trying to shift responsibility to some amorphous 'all sides' type problem.

 

[realibrad]

Calm down, maybe?

I'm calm. It's just that you insulted me and I responded in kind. You were wrong in what you were saying.

 

[pmv]

I'm calm. It's just that you insulted me and I responded in kind. You were wrong in what you were saying.

Do I have to quote you? You said 'birtherism started on the left'. That's a dishonest framing of what happened. First because it presumes a continuity between that occasion and Trump supporters using it as a campaign tool, and second because even if one accepts that was the 'start' of it, it didn't start 'on the left' it started with partisan Hillary fans, who were acting either apolitically or for the right.

As for 'crazy things before Trump' - meh, so what? Craziness has clearly been taken to a new level with Trump, but I'm taking issue with what you said above, not some general claim about the history of crazy.

 

[Jhhnn]

..

Let me give you the response you appear to desire.

Fuck you.

He's all about the "they're just as bad" routine. It's just more subtle than Slow's "You're the real racists" routine.

 

[umbrella39]

And you're the one most likely to be the next mass shooter.

It's almost comical watching these Russian cock gobblins try and invent their ALT personas and then try and sell them here. Just another multi account loser who has to wake up each day in a 3rd world shithole wishing he was an American...

 

[Indus]

It's almost comical watching these Russian cock gobblins try and invent their ALT personas and then try and sell them here. Just another multi account loser who has to wake up each day in a 3rd world shithole wishing he was an American...

I don't think Twerp is one.. Too focused at some0ne1's posts, not blanket propaganda like that luna1968 guy who is a much better candidate for being a "Russian cock goblin".

 

[Anarchist Mae]

Been posting on the Something Awful forums for a decade, so it'd have to be a long con.

 

[umbrella39]

I don't think Twerp is one.. Too focused at some0ne1's posts, not blanket propaganda like that luna1968 guy who is a much better candidate for being a "Russian cock goblin".

I was referring to S1 and his black wife not Twerp...! He was much more entertaining when he posted as michal.

 

[realibrad]

Do I have to quote you? You said 'birtherism started on the left'. That's a dishonest framing of what happened. First because it presumes a continuity between that occasion and Trump supporters using it as a campaign tool, and second because even if one accepts that was the 'start' of it, it didn't start 'on the left' it started with partisan Hillary fans, who were acting either apolitically or for the right.

As for 'crazy things before Trump' - meh, so what? Craziness has clearly been taken to a new level with Trump, but I'm taking issue with what you said above, not some general claim about the history of crazy.

The irony is that you are accusing me of quibbling. The person that brought up the birther topic did so in discussing how crazy things were before Trump. I responded by saying that ironically that one thing was started by people on the left. The topic of campaigns was never part of it by him or me.

I used the word ironic because it's something that was mainly used by the Right as a tool, but, was something started by people on the left. That is not dishonest or inaccurate. You inserted a context that was not there.

I suggest you look back at what was said.

 

[jackstar7]

The irony is that you are accusing me of quibbling.

No one has to accuse you. You are a known quibbler.

It's why you are known as The Quibbler, or my lesser adopted follow-up, DJ Quibbles.

 

[Triloby]

Been posting on the Something Awful forums for a decade, so it'd have to be a long con.

....

Bloody hell, is that place is still around? Managed to hang on longer than all of Geocities.

 

[Victorian Gray]

What does that have to do with what I said. Why is it that I say something that is factual and you respond as if I have said something else?

The birtherism thing started from people on the left. Not too further a left agenda. Not as part of Hillary's campaign. What I said was that it was something started on the left.

So why are you going on about campaigns?

Yummy. Quibbles 'n bits.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Great article by Aja Romano. Learning from years of online right-wing extremism, the shooter made his manifesto a weaponized shitpost

"By drawing on meme culture, and naming a polarizing central figure within meme culture, the alleged shooter ensured that debate would arise around those details, rather than uniting people in standing against hateful rhetoric and violent acts."

Good point.

 

[Maxima1]

Both sides