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Mormonism

J

jihe

Senior member
This is in no way meant to be an attack on Mormons. I was approached by preachers and was given a book of Mormons. I knew nothing about it and just started reading about history, but I found it hard to believe because all the witnesses to the golden plates were family or friend, AND most were excommunicated. It'd be like Moses being excommunicated. How can a mature adult be expected to convert to Mormonism?
 
I don't think anyone with an IQ over 80 is a mormon. So you can't expect reason to be involved in their decision making process.
 
HAL9000 said:
I don't think anyone with an IQ over 80 is a mormon. So you can't expect reason to be involved in their decision making process.
Click to expand...

Two things:
1. The vast majority of Mormons I've met are more intelligent than average. Plenty of people I work with are Mormon and they are far from being idiots.
2. Neckbeard calling someone else stupid?
 
Bignate603 said:
Two things:
1. The vast majority of Mormons I've met are more intelligent than average. Plenty of people I work with are Mormon and they are far from being idiots.
2. Neckbeard calling someone else stupid?
Click to expand...

1. I can't comprehend how someone intelligent could ever believe in this delusional crap. Perhaps that's my failing, but I doubt it.
2. I'm HAL9000
 
Religion is a logic trap that even highly intelligent people have fallen for.

Mormonism is really not that much harder to believe than gods sitting up in the clouds hurling down lightning bolts (e.g. Zeus), or a zombie son-of-himself rising from the grave. It's all just stories that people want to believe so strongly in that they make logic concessions to allow themselves the fantasy in believing it's true.

That being said, the mormons do have a very strong sense of community that is lost among the non-religious and reinforces their belief system. The standard mormon donation is 10% of the money they earn, straight to their local church.

Imagine if the average american donated 10% of their earnings towards NASA? We'd have sent people to Mars by now and have a base on the moon.
 
HAL9000 said:
1. I can't comprehend how someone intelligent could ever believe in this delusional crap. Perhaps that's my failing, but I doubt it.
2. I'm HAL9000
Click to expand...

1. Just because a person has one opinion or belief that you don't agree with it doesn't mean that they are an idiot across the board. Maybe you should go out and meet a couple before you make your opinions about them. Generally they're extremely nice people.
2. Once a neckbeard, always a neckbeard.
 
Bignate603 said:
1. Just because a person has one opinion or belief that you don't agree with it doesn't mean that they are an idiot across the board. Maybe you should go out and meet a couple before you make your opinions about them. Generally they're extremely nice people.
2. Once a neckbeard, always a neckbeard.
Click to expand...

1. No, if someone is devoted to system that shows a disregard for logical rational thought then calling them they can't be that intelligent. I went to Salt Lake city in 2010 everyone was incredibly nice, almost eerily nice. No complaints about their niceness.
2. I've never had a neckbeard.
 
HAL9000 said:
I can't comprehend how someone intelligent could ever believe in this delusional crap. Perhaps that's my failing, but I doubt it.
Click to expand...
HAL9000 said:
No, if someone is devoted to system that shows a disregard for logical rational thought then calling them they can't be that intelligent.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure you're referring to religion in general correct?



If so might I point out your lovely Monarchy and pose the question how intelligent are they?
 
Juddog said:
That being said, the mormons do have a very strong sense of community that is lost among the non-religious and reinforces their belief system. The standard mormon donation is 10% of the money they earn, straight to their local church.
Click to expand...

This. I have liked most of the individual Mormons I've met, they're generally good people, not preachy like you'd expect and the sorts of folks who you'd want as neighbors, co-workers, etc. I say this despite the fact that I think the mormon religion is even more laughable than most and my very low opinion of the LDS church as an organization.
 
corwin said:
I'm pretty sure you're referring to religion in general correct?
Click to expand...

I am.

If so might I point out your lovely Monarchy and pose the question how intelligent are they?
Click to expand...

While I don't think that most of the monarchy are especially intelligent, I will say this: The monarchy have no choice, they are christian or they aren't monarchs.
 
HAL9000 said:
1. No, if someone is devoted to system that shows a disregard for logical rational thought then calling them they can't be that intelligent. I went to Salt Lake city in 2010 everyone was incredibly nice, almost eerily nice. No complaints about their niceness.
2. I've never had a neckbeard.
Click to expand...

By your reasoning, because you disagree with them on one thing they are stupid. It doesn't matter what they do in any other aspect of their lives, their belief in something that you disagree with classifies them as dumb.

I hate to break it to you but if you examine ANYONE'S life closely enough you'll find that they hold some opinion or belief that you will feel is logically incorrect. Sure, you'll agree with some more than others, but you won't find a single person that is in line 100% with you.

I'd much rather form my opinions on people after I get to know them, rather than trying to classify a whole group based on a single aspect of their lives.
 
HAL9000 said:
While I don't think that most of the monarchy are especially intelligent, I will say this: The monarchy have no choice, they are christian or they aren't monarchs.
Click to expand...
Good deflection...not that I want this to get into yet another bash on your government I just wanted to point out you think your "Royalty" are idiots😀

I find it cute you would choose to support and follow people you believe are morons
 
HAL9000 said:
While I don't think that most of the monarchy are especially intelligent, I will say this: The monarchy have no choice, they are christian or they aren't monarchs.
Click to expand...

So by your reasoning they are either morons because they believe it or phonies because they pretend to believe it.
 
Bignate603 said:
By your reasoning, because you disagree with them on one thing they are stupid. It doesn't matter what they do in any other aspect of their lives, their belief in something that you disagree with classifies them as dumb.

I hate to break it to you but if you examine ANYONE'S life closely enough you'll find that they hold some opinion or belief that you will feel is logically incorrect. Sure, you'll agree with some more than others, but you won't find a single person that is in line 100% with you.

I'd much rather form my opinions on people after I get to know them, rather than trying to classify a whole group based on a single aspect of their lives.
Click to expand...

It's not me disagreeing with them, it's because they believe in something completely irrational.

corwin said:
Good deflection...not that I want this to get into yet another bash on your government I just wanted to point out you think your "Royalty" are idiots😀

I find it cute you would choose to support and follow people you believe are morons
Click to expand...

If the Royalty had a choice I surely would.
 
Bignate603 said:
So by your reasoning they are either morons because they believe it or phonies because they pretend to believe it.
Click to expand...

It's an even split, some of them are morons some of them are phonies, I'd like to think that they are mostly phonies, but that's probably just wishful thinking.
 
jihe said:
This is in no way meant to be an attack on Mormons. I was approached by preachers and was given a book of Mormons. I knew nothing about it and just started reading about history, but I found it hard to believe because all the witnesses to the golden plates were family or friend, AND most were excommunicated. It'd be like Moses being excommunicated. How can a mature adult be expected to convert to Mormonism?
Click to expand...

hmmm, did that kind of thing happen before?
*cough* king david, judas iscariot *cough*

the reason for the excommunication: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cowdery#Excommunication

a little pride about how things should be run/done.

With that said oliver and martin never denied their testimony. oliver returned to the church.

Oliver's death-bed testimony: http://theearlyanthology.tripod.com/1829/id9.html
 
I think my problem is with 'modern' religions. At least when you tell me the resurrection of Jesus, though I find it inconceivable, I have no strong evidence to prove that it did not happen, or that people lied about it, because it was all 2000 years ago. However Joseph Smith was a real person with many historical records. The Egyptian papyri from which the book of Abraham is translated from still exist today, and could be translated by scholars showing it had nothing to do with what Smith claimed. Does this not cast doubts over the book of Mormon?
 
jihe said:
I think my problem is with 'modern' religions. At least when you tell me the resurrection of Jesus, though I find it inconceivable, I have no strong evidence to prove that it did not happen, or that people lied about it, because it was all 2000 years ago. However Joseph Smith was a real person with many historical records. The Egyptian papyri from which the book of Abraham is translated from still exist today, and could be translated by scholars showing it had nothing to do with what Smith claimed. Does this not cast doubts over the book of Mormon?
Click to expand...

From wikipedia -
The Book of Abraham papyri were thought lost in the 1871 Great Chicago Fire. However, in 1966 several fragments of the papyri were found in the archives of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, and in the LDS Church archives. They are now referred to as the Joseph Smith Papyri. Upon examination by professional Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists, the papyri were found to bear no resemblance to Joseph Smith's interpretation, and were common Egyptian funerary texts, dating to about the first century BC.
 
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