More soldiers died from suicide in January than from combat operations

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Our son came home from Iraq with some PTSD after surviving 3 helicopters being shot out from under him...in one of them, he took a round to the head that didn't penetrate the skull case.

The USMC and DoD denied that it happened for about 4 years due to secrecy and that bullshit, but the mission was finally declassified and they've been good about standing up and admitting his claim for treatment. (finally...after it cost him a couple of jobs and a marriage)
He's living in Houston and going to school under both his GI Bill and VA benefits. It looks like he's FINALLY on the mend. Only time will tell.

:thumbsup: to you for supporting where and when you can. Sometimes, all they need is support...and someone to talk to when they're ready.

Glad things are turning around. VA & DoD, if they are serious about curbing the problem, need to recognize that where and when they need help is vital, and that timelines for action need to be looked at in terms of minutes and hours, not weeks and months.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: FlashG
This was a problem that has been swept under the door for every war that I can remember. It was especially problematic after the Korean Conflict.

My ex-navy son at home is having problems as well. We are trying to be as supportive as possible. It the end it?s up to the individual to sort it out for themselves. All we can do is be there.

You should read my first post again... awareness and treatments and have come a VERY long way over the last eight years, or so...

This:

Originally posted by: palehorse
That was certainly the case years ago, but now we get briefings on suicide, PTSD, depression, etc -- how to seek aid or recognize other soldiers who might need it -- on almost a monthly basis at this point. That is why the high rates are so disconcerting for everyone, as the military is truly attempting to tackle the issue.

I lost a buddy of mine to suicide while I was on my first tour in Afghanistan. His reasons had nothing at all to do with the military, and he didn't display any warning signs at all. (We later found out his reasons). It was an incredibly sad incident for everyone in our unit, and we'll probably all spend the rest of our lives trying to figure out what could we have done to prevent it... but the truth is that sometimes, there's not much anyone can do.

You also need to remember that the military is filled with a lot of soldiers who join the service to get away from other serious problems or issues at home. I imagine that those problems have a way of catching up with some of them during their enlistment.

It's a damn shame when good people die...

Of the three suicides that I've been close to in the service, not one of them was related to the wars or combat stress. All three were done by soldiers with issues stemming from outside of the service. That doesn't mean that there aren't still too many that are related to PTSD and/or combat stress, I just haven't seen them.

The military has really tried to tackle the issue... but they obviously need to do even more.

It's a tough nut to crack. Any recommendations or ideas would be more than welcome!

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: FlashG
This was a problem that has been swept under the door for every war that I can remember. It was especially problematic after the Korean Conflict.

My ex-navy son at home is having problems as well. We are trying to be as supportive as possible. It the end it?s up to the individual to sort it out for themselves. All we can do is be there.

You should read my first post again... awareness and treatments and have come a VERY long way over the last eight years, or so...

This:

Originally posted by: palehorse
That was certainly the case years ago, but now we get briefings on suicide, PTSD, depression, etc -- how to seek aid or recognize other soldiers who might need it -- on almost a monthly basis at this point. That is why the high rates are so disconcerting for everyone, as the military is truly attempting to tackle the issue.

I lost a buddy of mine to suicide while I was on my first tour in Afghanistan. His reasons had nothing at all to do with the military, and he didn't display any warning signs at all. (We later found out his reasons). It was an incredibly sad incident for everyone in our unit, and we'll probably all spend the rest of our lives trying to figure out what could we have done to prevent it... but the truth is that sometimes, there's not much anyone can do.

You also need to remember that the military is filled with a lot of soldiers who join the service to get away from other serious problems or issues at home. I imagine that those problems have a way of catching up with some of them during their enlistment.

It's a damn shame when good people die...

Of the three suicides that I've been close to in the service, not one of them was related to the wars or combat stress. All three were done by soldiers with issues stemming from outside of the service. That doesn't mean that there aren't still too many that are related to PTSD and/or combat stress, I just haven't seen them.

The military has really tried to tackle the issue... but they obviously need to do even more.

It's a tough nut to crack. Any recommendations or ideas would be more than welcome!

Did you read my first post? It's an impossible nut to crack because nobody wants it cracked.

The answer is rather simple, actually, though of course no in practice. People kill themselves because they are afraid to feel what they feel. What they feel, and it is a lie, but they feel in none the less, is that they are the worst person in the world. You feel that, I feel that, everybody on the planet feels that, save maybe some relatively few.

So the answer to this problem is to feel. The army, the world, needs to train people to understand that they have emotions which are lies but which they believe anyway, and the way to know this is to feel them. People need a supportive environment to investigate their feelings, and there is nothing better than a group of people doing this together, because they can learn from each other, support each other, and use their projections on each other to discover that what they see in others in themselves, what they feel. We have to find a way to break the hideous fear of feeling that is killing our world, the notion that you are weak if you feel. If you can get to your feelings of self hate you are tougher than almost all the people on the planet. If people could only allow themselves to suffer and grieve over what was done to them as children they would not anymore suffer.

I tell you this. Grief heals and when you morn your own psychic death, allow what is buried within to come out, you will heal. The world is profoundly ignorant and in the dark about our condition, and powerfully motivated to stay that way. It isn't fun being the worst person in the world. But it is even stupider to believe it and keep it buried when it is a lie.

The entire world is suffering from PTSD, you and me. The pain that is there you just would not believe.

 

[QuantumPion]

Ho hum, this is a total non-story. In fact it is such a non-story that it is totally irresponsible to write such a travesty.

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
The Army's confirmed rate of suicides in 2008 was 20.2 per 100,000 soldiers. The nation's suicide rate was 19.5 per 100,000 people in 2005, the most recent figure available, Army officials said last month.

The nation's suicide rate is ~20 per 100,000. But what is the suicide rate for 18-40 year old males? My bet is it's double or even higher. In other words, the suicide rate for troops is probably less then half that for the general population.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Ho hum, this is a total non-story. In fact it is such a non-story that it is totally irresponsible to write such a travesty.

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
The Army's confirmed rate of suicides in 2008 was 20.2 per 100,000 soldiers. The nation's suicide rate was 19.5 per 100,000 people in 2005, the most recent figure available, Army officials said last month.

The nation's suicide rate is ~20 per 100,000. But what is the suicide rate for 18-40 year old males? My bet is it's double or even higher. In other words, the suicide rate for troops is probably less then half that for the general population.

The rate of suicide among Army troops is at a three-decade high, the Army announced today.

In 2008, 128 returning soldiers killed themselves and an unknown number of suspected suicides are still not folded into that picture.

In 2004, when annual suicides were first recorded, there were 64 suicides; in 2005- 87; in 2006- 102; and in 2007- 115, the Army said.

That comes to a rate of 20.2 per 100,000 soldiers, reports USA Today. Compare that figure to 18-24 year-old males not in the military ? the suicide rate is about 19.8 percent, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Other branches of the military also report an increase in suicides. According to Marine Corp statistics, 41 Marines committed suicide last year- a 24 percent increase from 2007. The Army and Marines are the primary forces involved in Afghanistan and Iraq

 

[Zebo]

Have to wonder how much of this is brought on by command, media and politicians who second guess every house clearing, every death, every action, etc. I essence they are assailed not only from an totally unappreciative populace and jihadis but from their own too. With no place to go since military is forced slavery upon signing the papers - they have no hope - no escape from the pressure cooker.

I have said 100x I'd rather fight for the mujahideen before the US Army because of the BS ROE's and un-support from our community. Mujahideen don't have senseless suicide unless it has a military objective.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Mujahideen don't have senseless suicide unless it has a military objective.

every suicide is senseless.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

As you get more free time there are more free time to think.

Combat vets are probably the highest risk group of all after they leave.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Have to wonder how much of this is brought on by command, media and politicians who second guess every house clearing, every death, every action, etc. I essence they are assailed not only from an totally unappreciative populace and jihadis but from their own too. With no place to go since military is forced slavery upon signing the papers - they have no hope - no escape from the pressure cooker.

I have said 100x I'd rather fight for the mujahideen before the US Army because of the BS ROE's and un-support from our community. Mujahideen don't have senseless suicide unless it has a military objective.

Yet another entry in the 10,000 item list why we shouldn't invade sovereign nations for economic interests. Just please lets agree not to word that entry as "because the liberal media hates the troops". It turns a reasonable argument about the emotional acrobatics inherent in being a modern soldier into nut-job drivel. From your two paragraphs I'm not sure if you're waxing philosophically or if you privately feel that the liberal media really does hate the troops.

 

[maluckey]

Suicide of soldiers is rarely because of what happens during combat. It's normally what happens when we try to integrate into a soceity of people that have zero idea regarding any and all things military.

I've lost one buddy in the service over the years. He came home from a deployment, and his wife was with Jody. He beat the snot out of both, ruined his career with a couple of DUI's as a follw-up, and ended it with a plunge from a bridge in his car.

Proper networks, better COC and better integration of FRG into local communities may have helped.....may not have.

The military lifestyle is just that...a lifestyle. Combat Soldiers have a rather unique place in their lives for death. Death becomes part of daily life, not distant and unreal like for certain fuckttards who don't understand anything about life, let alone death..... Death's like a business partner that you talk to, you don't truly know him, and don't want to, even though he's always around.

To me, suicide is a failure on the units' part, coupled with the part played by ingrates that have never stood for anything worth a shit.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: maluckey
Suicide of soldiers is rarely because of what happens during combat. It's normally what happens when we try to integrate into a soceity of people that have zero idea regarding any and all things military.

I've lost one buddy in the service over the years. He came home from a deployment, and his wife was with Jody. He beat the snot out of both, ruined his career with a couple of DUI's as a follw-up, and ended it with a plunge from a bridge in his car.

Proper networks, better COC and better integration of FRG into local communities may have helped.....may not have.

The military lifestyle is just that...a lifestyle. Combat Soldiers have a rather unique place in their lives for death. Death becomes part of daily life, not distant and unreal like for certain fuckttards who don't understand anything about life, let alone death..... Death's like a business partner that you talk to, you don't truly know him, and don't want to, even though he's always around.

To me, suicide is a failure on the units' part, coupled with the part played by ingrates that have never stood for anything worth a shit.

There is not one person outside of combat troops that will ever understand that pain of coming home.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: maluckey
Suicide of soldiers is rarely because of what happens during combat. It's normally what happens when we try to integrate into a soceity of people that have zero idea regarding any and all things military.

I've lost one buddy in the service over the years. He came home from a deployment, and his wife was with Jody. He beat the snot out of both, ruined his career with a couple of DUI's as a follw-up, and ended it with a plunge from a bridge in his car.

Proper networks, better COC and better integration of FRG into local communities may have helped.....may not have.

The military lifestyle is just that...a lifestyle. Combat Soldiers have a rather unique place in their lives for death. Death becomes part of daily life, not distant and unreal like for certain fuckttards who don't understand anything about life, let alone death..... Death's like a business partner that you talk to, you don't truly know him, and don't want to, even though he's always around.

To me, suicide is a failure on the units' part, coupled with the part played by ingrates that have never stood for anything worth a shit.

There is not one person outside of combat troops that will ever understand that pain of coming home.

Most mild forms of PTSD that I have personally seen or dealt with have much more to do with integrating back into a civilian world than actual stress/trauma during the deployment. I'm not sure most people realize coming home can be a very, very difficult thing.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: maluckey
Suicide of soldiers is rarely because of what happens during combat. It's normally what happens when we try to integrate into a soceity of people that have zero idea regarding any and all things military.

I've lost one buddy in the service over the years. He came home from a deployment, and his wife was with Jody. He beat the snot out of both, ruined his career with a couple of DUI's as a follw-up, and ended it with a plunge from a bridge in his car.

Proper networks, better COC and better integration of FRG into local communities may have helped.....may not have.

The military lifestyle is just that...a lifestyle. Combat Soldiers have a rather unique place in their lives for death. Death becomes part of daily life, not distant and unreal like for certain fuckttards who don't understand anything about life, let alone death..... Death's like a business partner that you talk to, you don't truly know him, and don't want to, even though he's always around.

To me, suicide is a failure on the units' part, coupled with the part played by ingrates that have never stood for anything worth a shit.

There is not one person outside of combat troops that will ever understand that pain of coming home.

Most mild forms of PTSD that I have personally seen or dealt with have much more to do with integrating back into a civilian world than actual stress/trauma during the deployment. I'm not sure most people realize coming home can be a very, very difficult thing.

Yeah, last time i got home all i could do was to find something to sign up to, it's called war hopping in not so scientific terms.

I think this is the only time i ever wanted to get the fuck out of here and there is a reason for it but not one i can tell.

I've promised myself that the next time i go home, i will have to get help to do it and i will.

Unfotrunantly that also means cutting all contact with people i have known and fought with for more than a decade.

 

[palehorse]

My biggest problem upon returning home is the slow and annoying pace by which normal citizens go about their daily lives. Simple things, like waiting in line for an ignorant kid at McDonalds to fix a screwed up order, will piss me off; or, having to explain something to someone more than once because they're too slow to get it the first time. I might snap and yell at a few folks for being ignorant, but I usually just go outside to calm down instead.

Luckily, for me, this only lasts about a month each time I come home from downrange... after that, I'm perfectly normal and patient... that is, until I deploy again.

There's no doubt that re-integration is a son-of-a-bitch.

I will say this though: the Army -- especially the Vets -- does a fairly decent job briefing soldiers on these issues and preparing us for the frustrations we'll face at home.

What more could they (we) do?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: palehorse
My biggest problem upon returning home is the slow and annoying pace by which normal citizens go about their daily lives. Simple things, like waiting in line for an ignorant kid at McDonalds to fix a screwed up order, will piss me off; or, having to explain something to someone more than once because they're too slow to get it the first time. I might snap and yell at a few folks for being ignorant, but I usually just go outside to calm down instead.

Luckily, for me, this only lasts about a month each time I come home from downrange... after that, I'm perfectly normal and patient... that is, until I deploy again.

There's no doubt that re-integration is a son-of-a-bitch.

I will say this though: the Army -- especially the Vets -- does a fairly decent job briefing soldiers on these issues and preparing us for the frustrations we'll face at home.

What more could they (we) do?

You're not a combat operative in the field though, as much as we share, there is a difference, brother.

I do agree with you that the pace things are done in in the civilian world is fucking annoying though, sometimes to the point that i had to leave.

I doubt there is anything anyone could do though, everyone has to deal with it in their way. I was almost down when i was home with my kids last Christmas, more than a year ago, i can probably do that again.

No worries about me, only thing that could make me a suicidal maniac would be if i KNEW i could take out the entire threat even if it cost me my life.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
You're not a combat operative in the field though, as much as we share, there is a difference, brother.

What makes you say that? My first tour, back in '04, was as an infantryman running patrols, conducting air assault raids, and kicking down doors every day. My newer job has me outside the wire every day/night as well... even working with many of the same people you work with -- U.S. and otherwise.

I do agree with you that the pace things are done in in the civilian world is fucking annoying though, sometimes to the point that i had to leave.

I doubt there is anything anyone could do though, everyone has to deal with it in their way. I was almost down when i was home with my kids last Christmas, more than a year ago, i can probably do that again.

No worries about me, only thing that could make me a suicidal maniac would be if i KNEW i could take out the entire threat even if it cost me my life.

right on brother.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
You're not a combat operative in the field though, as much as we share, there is a difference, brother.

What makes you say that? My first tour, back in '04, was as an infantryman running patrols, conducting air assault raids, and kicking down doors every day. My newer job has me outside the wire every day/night as well... even working with many of the same people you work with -- U.S. and otherwise.

I do agree with you that the pace things are done in in the civilian world is fucking annoying though, sometimes to the point that i had to leave.

I doubt there is anything anyone could do though, everyone has to deal with it in their way. I was almost down when i was home with my kids last Christmas, more than a year ago, i can probably do that again.

No worries about me, only thing that could make me a suicidal maniac would be if i KNEW i could take out the entire threat even if it cost me my life.

right on brother.

I should fucking know better, i got your e-mail and i know that what you are saying is true, i have no explanations other than the excuse that i am tired, i know that is no proper excuse for an officer but it's the only one i can give you.

My apologies for misrepresenting your status brother.

For the record, palehorse was definently in the field and has provided evidence to me from field duty to prove it, i do not question it when i'm not being a daft twat who forgets who the fuck he's talking to.

/salute

 

[maluckey]

Yeah, last time i got home all i could do was to find something to sign up to, it's called war hopping in not so scientific terms....

I hear ya!

My second outing, had me coming home to a family that I barely knew, versus buddies who surely would (and several have) died for the team. I knew that I had to go back again.

I found it hard to relate to whiners who complain about their lives as if they actually understood how difficult that it is for others in comparison. I found myself questioning why I was more comfortable with my body armor than my jeans. Why I felt more vulnerable in Walmart than patrolling the Syrian border with my buddies.

I've put in to go back on the next opportunity, because my civilian life doesn't compare, even though I'm relatively successful, have immense job security and zero bills. I miss the sort of life that challenges you on a daily basis to rise above yourself and see the big picture; be part of something bigger than myself.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
You're not a combat operative in the field though, as much as we share, there is a difference, brother.

What makes you say that? My first tour, back in '04, was as an infantryman running patrols, conducting air assault raids, and kicking down doors every day. My newer job has me outside the wire every day/night as well... even working with many of the same people you work with -- U.S. and otherwise.

I do agree with you that the pace things are done in in the civilian world is fucking annoying though, sometimes to the point that i had to leave.

I doubt there is anything anyone could do though, everyone has to deal with it in their way. I was almost down when i was home with my kids last Christmas, more than a year ago, i can probably do that again.

No worries about me, only thing that could make me a suicidal maniac would be if i KNEW i could take out the entire threat even if it cost me my life.

right on brother.

I should fucking know better, i got your e-mail and i know that what you are saying is true, i have no explanations other than the excuse that i am tired, i know that is no proper excuse for an officer but it's the only one i can give you.

My apologies for misrepresenting your status brother.

For the record, palehorse was definently in the field and has provided evidence to me from field duty to prove it, i do not question it when i'm not being a daft twat who forgets who the fuck he's talking to.

/salute

I appreciate that bro. I really couldn't care less what the rest of the asshats around here think about me or my service.

But thank you.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
You're not a combat operative in the field though, as much as we share, there is a difference, brother.

What makes you say that? My first tour, back in '04, was as an infantryman running patrols, conducting air assault raids, and kicking down doors every day. My newer job has me outside the wire every day/night as well... even working with many of the same people you work with -- U.S. and otherwise.

I do agree with you that the pace things are done in in the civilian world is fucking annoying though, sometimes to the point that i had to leave.

I doubt there is anything anyone could do though, everyone has to deal with it in their way. I was almost down when i was home with my kids last Christmas, more than a year ago, i can probably do that again.

No worries about me, only thing that could make me a suicidal maniac would be if i KNEW i could take out the entire threat even if it cost me my life.

right on brother.

I should fucking know better, i got your e-mail and i know that what you are saying is true, i have no explanations other than the excuse that i am tired, i know that is no proper excuse for an officer but it's the only one i can give you.

My apologies for misrepresenting your status brother.

For the record, palehorse was definently in the field and has provided evidence to me from field duty to prove it, i do not question it when i'm not being a daft twat who forgets who the fuck he's talking to.

/salute

I appreciate that bro. I really couldn't care less what the rest of the asshats around here think about me or my service.

But thank you.

That is exactly the kind of bravado that can get you into trouble. You may find, if you are deeply honest, that you care a great deal. You may find that part of what drives you to excellence is a desire to live up to ideals set out by those you admire and would like to resemble. Some of this talk about how a soldier's experience can't be appreciated is a defense, and an unnecessary one, against a perceived lack of appreciation that is a feeling generated by self hate. We do not appreciate ourselves and the result is that we deny we need it. We don't, but we do when we don't have it for ourselves and we don't.

This is why this problem is so hard to treat. We tell ourselves lies that we think will protect us when those very lies get in the way of self help. It is like being in an capsized ship. You have to swim down into darkness to get up to the light and fresh air. We don't want ever again to be vulnerable and weak but we suffer from pain that we got long ago when we were totally vulnerable and weak and the way to undo it is to permit oneself to feel that again, to be, for all practical purposes, vulnerable and weak, but this time in a setting with others, working toward the same thing, with the same emotional problems who are on your team, and hopefully with somebody leading who has already done so and knows all the tricks we play to avoid going there.

Think about it. I didn't tell you to argue or tell you you got it all wrong. I tell you so you have something you can think about and maybe see something in perhaps in some time of need.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
That is exactly the kind of bravado that can get you into trouble. You may find, if you are deeply honest, that you care a great deal. You may find that part of what drives you to excellence is a desire to live up to ideals set out by those you admire and would like to resemble. Some of this talk about how a soldier's experience can't be appreciated is a defense, and an unnecessary one, against a perceived lack of appreciation that is a feeling generated by self hate. We do not appreciate ourselves and the result is that we deny we need it. We don't, but we do when we don't have it for ourselves and we don't.

This is why this problem is so hard to treat. We tell ourselves lies that we think will protect us when those very lies get in the way of self help. It is like being in an capsized ship. You have to swim down into darkness to get up to the light and fresh air. We don't want ever again to be vulnerable and weak but we suffer from pain that we got long ago when we were totally vulnerable and weak and the way to undo it is to permit oneself to feel that again, to be, for all practical purposes, vulnerable and weak, but this time in a setting with others, working toward the same thing, with the same emotional problems who are on your team, and hopefully with somebody leading who has already done so and knows all the tricks we play to avoid going there.

Think about it. I didn't tell you to argue or tell you you got it all wrong. I tell you so you have something you can think about and maybe see something in perhaps in some time of need.

nope. I genuinely don't care how you, or anyone else here, perceives my character or my service.

I'm a VERY happy and satisfied person who is leading what I feel is a fantastic life. I don't hate myself at all.

That shoe don't fit...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
That is exactly the kind of bravado that can get you into trouble. You may find, if you are deeply honest, that you care a great deal. You may find that part of what drives you to excellence is a desire to live up to ideals set out by those you admire and would like to resemble. Some of this talk about how a soldier's experience can't be appreciated is a defense, and an unnecessary one, against a perceived lack of appreciation that is a feeling generated by self hate. We do not appreciate ourselves and the result is that we deny we need it. We don't, but we do when we don't have it for ourselves and we don't.

This is why this problem is so hard to treat. We tell ourselves lies that we think will protect us when those very lies get in the way of self help. It is like being in an capsized ship. You have to swim down into darkness to get up to the light and fresh air. We don't want ever again to be vulnerable and weak but we suffer from pain that we got long ago when we were totally vulnerable and weak and the way to undo it is to permit oneself to feel that again, to be, for all practical purposes, vulnerable and weak, but this time in a setting with others, working toward the same thing, with the same emotional problems who are on your team, and hopefully with somebody leading who has already done so and knows all the tricks we play to avoid going there.

Think about it. I didn't tell you to argue or tell you you got it all wrong. I tell you so you have something you can think about and maybe see something in perhaps in some time of need.

nope. I genuinely don't care how you, or anyone else here, perceives my character or my service.

I'm a VERY happy and satisfied person who is leading what I feel is a fantastic life. I don't hate myself at all.

That shoe don't fit...

Do you know the story of the princess and the pea?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Zebo
Mujahideen don't have senseless suicide unless it has a military objective.

every suicide is senseless.

Yeah right! I'm sure you believe that. MOST MOH winners committed suicide.

Besides, Islamic Martyrs get riches greater than the world and everything in it, hardly senseless.

 

[Ackmed]

We had a class today about such things, among others today. Coming home in a week, and they want to make sure we dont go crazy. Been out in the field, sleeping in tents, freezing next to the Turkey/Syria border for months. Culture shock I guess, things arent always what you want them to be when you come back home, or how you remember them. Takes time to adjust back, and depression is a real problem. Ill just be happy to come home.

Ive been to a few Army bases... I cant imagine most of the soldiers are stressed that much. The living was pretty nice from what I saw. I know thats not always the case, just most of the time.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Zebo
Mujahideen don't have senseless suicide unless it has a military objective.

every suicide is senseless.

Yeah right! I'm sure you believe that. MOST MOH winners committed suicide.

Besides, Islamic Martyrs get riches greater than the world and everything in it, hardly senseless.

1. MOH winners did not "commit suicide" -- rather, they were killed while doing something heroic. Hint: their intent was not to die.

2. Islamic martyrdom is just as senseless as any other form of suicide, if not moreso. Their sought after "riches" are pure fantasy.