More protests getting out of hand in Berkeley

[WelshBloke]

So that makes their violence against innocent people acceptable? No.

Well it makes their violence against fascists and Nazis understandable.

 

[amenx]

LOL! There are PLENTY of leftists with no qualms what-so-ever about using violence.
You just spout horseshit like you just did, leaving out communists, radical marxists, Red factions, enviro-terror groups, even the average left-leaning street thug.

You obviously cant grasp context even when it is shown and referenced to you. My words "so called leftists and liberals" are not referring to "communists, radical marxists, Red factions, enviro-terror groups". Liberals are more associated with pacifism.. while 'racists, white supremacists, fascists, and nazis' who by nature violence runs in their blood.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Well it makes their violence against fascists and Nazis understandable.

Labels are handy tools used by radicals on the left and right. But does it allow you to commit violence against the non-violent? It does not.

 

[FelixDeCat]

You obviously cant grasp context even when it is shown and referenced to you. My words "so called leftists and liberals" are not referring to "communists, radical marxists, Red factions, enviro-terror groups". Liberals are more associated with pacifism.. while 'racists, white supremacists, fascists, and nazis' who by nature violence runs in their blood.

You are assuming that everyone on the right is a racist and other labels - just like the members of Antifa.

OMG you are a [label] and a [label]! You are saying you want to make America great again! I must now throw this rock at your head because Im trying to stop your support of Trump!

 

[WelshBloke]

Labels are handy tools used by radicals on the left and right. But does it allow you to commit violence against the non-violent? It does not.

Nazism is a violent doctrine.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Nazism is a violent doctrine.

Who said it was not?

 

[amenx]

You are assuming that everyone on the right is a racist and other labels - just like the members of Antifa.

OMG you are a [label] and a [label]! You are saying you want to make America great again! I must now throw this rock at your head because Im trying to stop your support of Trump!

No, I thought my words were clear: "racists, white supremacists, fascists, and nazis" ... not necessarily everyone on the right. But chances are ALL 'racists, white supremacists, fascists, and nazis' ARE on the right. Thats why the right generally inspires revulsion, even though many/most of them may not agree with the vile aspects of many of their fellow right-wingers.

 

[WelshBloke]

Who said it was not?

Well I don't have a problem with using violent tactics against violent people.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Nazism is a violent doctrine.

So are anarchism and communism.

 

[WelshBloke]

So are anarchism and communism.

Certainly those two can be violent, but they aren't at heart violent doctrines.

But anyway, so what? Followers of both have been the subjects of violence and intimidation from the state and individuals.

 

[Blue_Max]

Well I don't have a problem with using violent tactics against violent people.

Exactly. This is why it's such a convenient narrative to consider ALL who disagree "violent". This is why your side tries, at every opportunity, to classify words you don't like as "violence", so you can return in kind.

...except in reality, you're still the ones inflicting violence on someone else because you don't like their ideas (or if they don't like your ideas.)

 

[Blue_Max]

Certainly those two can be violent, but they aren't at heart violent doctrines.

Forcibly "redistributing" wealth from one to another isn't violence?
...and having a differing opinion IS??

 

[WelshBloke]

Exactly. This is why it's such a convenient narrative to consider ALL who disagree "violent". This is why your side tries, at every opportunity, to classify words you don't like as "violence", so you can return in kind.

...except in reality, you're still the ones inflicting violence on someone else because you don't like their ideas (or if they don't like your ideas.)

Nice alternative reality there. I don't think that people who disagree are violent. I think that a wide variety of political views is healthy for a functioning democracy.

Actual Nazis aren't healthy for anything though.

 

[WelshBloke]

Forcibly "redistributing" wealth from one to another isn't violence?

What about forcibly enforcing any laws?

..and having a differing opinion IS??

You think so? I'd have to disagree.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Certainly those two can be violent, but they aren't at heart violent doctrines.

But anyway, so what? Followers of both have been the subjects of violence and intimidation from the state and individuals.

Define "at heart violent doctrines". I'd love to see either realized without requiring the use of violent force.

So you're saying that the existence of violent injustices against one group justifies violence against other groups? I didn't realize developed nations operated on playground law (though perhaps I'm giving the Welsh too much credit).

 

[WelshBloke]

So you're saying that the existence of violent injustices against one group justifies violence against other groups?

No. I'm saying that sometimes violence is the only answer to a violent problem. You can't combat fascism with a couple of camp fire songs and some good placards.

 

[WelshBloke]

Double post!

 

[WelshBloke]

Triple post!

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No. I'm saying that sometimes violence is the only answer to a violent problem. You can't combat fascism with a couple of camp fire songs and some good placards.

I don't disagree at all with the bolded, but then again, neither did McVeigh. If people want to go down the road of giving up hope on a legal solution to a problem, they should realize what the consequences are. ANTIFA should stop hiding behind cops and gun control laws if they really want to convince anyone outside of their clique that they're revolutionaries and not gutless trust fund hypocrites.

 

[WelshBloke]

I don't disagree at all with the bolded, but then again, neither did McVeigh.

Yeah, but he was mental.

If people want to go down the road of giving up hope on a legal solution to a problem, they should realize what the consequences are.

Well we know the consequences of ignoring fascists. It doesn't get a lot worse than that.

ANTIFA should stop hiding behind cops and gun control laws if they really want to convince anyone outside of their clique that they're revolutionaries and not gutless trust fund hypocrites.

Heh. I bet you'd be right out there to teach them a lesson man to man if it wasn't for those pesky cops eh? I bet those antifascists can't believe their luck getting protection from you.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

McVeigh was mental? News to me. Pretty sure he was rational, just a bit of a hothead.

What are the consequences? The Nazis and communists alike saw their popularity exploding as the Weimar Republic spiraled down the shitter. The Nazis won, but a hypothetical communist Germany being the other viable alternative doesn't seem attractive either. Fascism is a symptom of ineffectual government and a desperate population willing to trade their rights for food on the table. And that's the worst case of fascism; Pinochet obviously wasn't remotely a saint, but if I kept my head down I'd be better off under him than Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, etc. In fairness, I consider some communist movements, e.g. Vietnam, to be a natural reaction to colonialism and on the whole justified even if bloody, and from little I've read supposedly Tito wasn't such a horrible commie either. Point is, drawing the line of acceptable speech at the single ideology of fascism is at the very least a biased product of pop culture.

No I wouldn't, because I consider ANTIFA to be thugs. Show me cases where they mobilize against violent fascists in the defense of others and I'll support those instances, but in America, wearing a swastika or a red baseball cap isn't grounds for a beating.

 

[ch33zw1z]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

Seems mental to me.

Wanted to catalyst a revolt against the federal government over Waco seige. Religion, the gift that keeps on giving.

Wiki reports he frequently quoted from a white supremecist book as well.

Bombs his own countries facilities.

Yea, just another angry white guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Thebobo]

Looks like we have some future Brown shirts here.

From the Southern Poverty Law Center. A new fight-club “fraternity” of young white, pro-Trump men is being formed, its organizers claim, to defend free-speech rights by “Alt-Right” leaders and engage in street fighting.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/04/25/new-alt-right-“fight-club”-ready-street-violence

 

[brycejones]

Looks like we have some future Brown shirts here.

From the Southern Poverty Law Center. A new fight-club “fraternity” of young white, pro-Trump men is being formed, its organizers claim, to defend free-speech rights by “Alt-Right” leaders and engage in street fighting.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/04/25/new-alt-right-“fight-club”-ready-street-violence

Can't trust the splc they are an anti Christian anti white hate group.

/s

 

[desura]

Can't trust the splc they are an anti Christian anti white hate group.

/s

They actually are very far left but then put on this veneer of objectivity in these reports. It is disingenuous. Especially when they put hirsi ali and nawan majlis on an islamophobe list, they pretty much showed their hand. Daniel Pipes does not belong either.

You know how this probably happened? Nepotism. It happens in all institutions, even "good" left wing ones.