More fun with Chinese tourists

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Tormac

Senior member
Feb 3, 2011
254
49
91
China has a culture that has been isolated from the rest of the world for a fair amount of recent history, and has different expectations. The OP just ran into one of the larger differences, one that a western has to experience to really understand. That is the lack of this thing known as “personal space” in China. The expectation of everyone have a couple inches of sovereign air-space around them is not there in China. Because of this it may seem to Westerners that the Chinese are very pushy and rude, and can’t que at all. But in the Chinese culture, it is a given that people will close in together in places, and if you wait outside of the scrum, it will be interpreted as not interested in being in “line”.

This is something that you just have to experience in China repeatedly, until you no longer have the automatic expectation of personal space. Once you do then much of the “bad behavior” of Chinese tourists is more understandable.

The other thing that you have to experience is the size of things in China. Because of the size of the population, the Chinese are used to doing things on a scale that dwarf’s American expectations. I just got back from a family vacation in NYC. It was my first time there, and I could not help but compare it to Beijing, and how underwhelming NYC is compared to Beijing (I am an American, but have been a college student in Beijing, and my wife is a Chinese woman who lived in Beijing while we were dating, so I have spent a lot of time in Beijing).

The Chinese are a fascinating people, and I love the classical Chinese culture, but they may seem pushy and rude in some circumstances when viewed with Western expectations. In an odd kind of tit for tat way Americans are frequently considered loud, and overly confident (a nice way to say pushy) about many things as well.
 
monkeydelmagico

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
106
Exterous said:
Its unfortunate on many levels but if we see a large chinese tour group we try and avoid them and that area if at all possible.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter who it is. Bus loads of ANY kind are disruptive. Except Canadians. The single short bus they managed to fill is very polite.
 
E

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,374
3,454
126
Tormac said:
That is the lack of this thing known as “personal space” in China. The expectation of everyone have a couple inches of sovereign air-space around them is not there in China.
Click to expand...

Its a bit beyond that as it has been my experience that they do not even give way giving you two options: Stand aside or physically push your way through them. Lack of personal space is not a big deal to me. Having to physically interact with someone to get through is a bit different

monkeydelmagico said:
Doesn't matter who it is. Bus loads of ANY kind are disruptive.
Click to expand...

I have yet to encounter anyone else yelling into a loud speaker to two bus loads or people - but yes if I ever encounter that I will also find them annoying
 
AznAnarchy99

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Svnla said:
Are you for real?

Since when you have to be wealthy and developed "Western manners/expectations" to know NOT to do these nasty things:

1. Defecating/peeing in public
2. Taking all the foods at the buffets and throwing away most of them
2. Destroying ancient relics at the well know tourist sites
3. Spitting in public
4. Cutting in lines
5. Being so crazy loud and obnoxious
6. Ignoring the local culture and people
7. Throwing hot water in the face of the flight attendant
8. Trying to open the emergency exit while the airplane is in mid air
9. Smoking where it is not allowed

and on and on and on.

Even the chinese government itself is cracking down on chinese bad behavior = http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...lamps-down-on-chinese-tourists-behaving-badly



Excuses, excuses, and more excuses.

Speaking of poverty, there are million and million of chinese live with less than $2 USD per day (United Nations standard of extreme poverty).
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxqwXNfYmOQ
 
R

Remobz

Platinum Member
Jun 9, 2005
2,563
37
91
T

Tormac

Senior member
Feb 3, 2011
254
49
91
Exterous said:
Its a bit beyond that as it has been my experience that they do not even give way giving you two options: Stand aside or physically push your way through them. Lack of personal space is not a big deal to me. Having to physically interact with someone to get through is a bit different

I have yet to encounter anyone else yelling into a loud speaker to two bus loads or people - but yes if I ever encounter that I will also find them annoying
Click to expand...

Yes! You have it. When I said that they do not have personal space, I did not mean less space, I meant no space, literally lightly touching the people next to you in line. I learned about this while waiting in line to see the Giant Buddha of Leshan.

It is good luck to visit the Gian Buddha for Chinese New Year, and the lines was literally hours long and packed. I believe there may have been ten thousand people waiting in line to see the Buddha. I was trying to leave a couple inches to the next person in line, what would be typical for Americans waiting in a long line, but found that when I did people would sneak past me and "cut" in front of me. If I stood right up to the next person in line though I had no problem. I do mean with no space between me and someone else, much closer to total strangers, particularly woman, than I was comfortable with, but it was how things are done there.

While standing in line I had fun talking with a Chinese woman who teaches English in grade school, and her daughter, a grade schooler, who wanted to try out her English on a real live Westerner. They were charming people, but I did literally have to stand right next to strangers in line to keep from loosing my spot in line. Nobody was being rude or pushy by Chinese standards, but I would not stand that close to women that I did not know in America.

It is like when some people are being cautious on the highway, and leave just a little too much space between themselves and the next car, and then someone else sees it as enough room to cut in. The Chinese are literally used to not having any personal space at all in crowded situations. It is not that they are used to less space than Americans, but that they are used to no personal space. A friend from Hong Kong that I met in classes advised me "no push, no way" meaning that if one was not a little aggressive while waiting in line one would not not get anywhere.

I don't mean being a big aggressive jerk. But it is normal for people to have to slowly, gently, force their way into places. When one has thousands of people waiting for things, people are used to using as little space as possible.
 
E

elitejp

Golden Member
Jan 2, 2010
1,080
20
81
Tormac said:
China has a culture that has been isolated from the rest of the world for a fair amount of recent history, and has different expectations. The OP just ran into one of the larger differences, one that a western has to experience to really understand. That is the lack of this thing known as “personal space” in China. The expectation of everyone have a couple inches of sovereign air-space around them is not there in China. Because of this it may seem to Westerners that the Chinese are very pushy and rude, and can’t que at all. But in the Chinese culture, it is a given that people will close in together in places, and if you wait outside of the scrum, it will be interpreted as not interested in being in “line”.

This is something that you just have to experience in China repeatedly, until you no longer have the automatic expectation of personal space. Once you do then much of the “bad behavior” of Chinese tourists is more understandable.

The other thing that you have to experience is the size of things in China. Because of the size of the population, the Chinese are used to doing things on a scale that dwarf’s American expectations. I just got back from a family vacation in NYC. It was my first time there, and I could not help but compare it to Beijing, and how underwhelming NYC is compared to Beijing (I am an American, but have been a college student in Beijing, and my wife is a Chinese woman who lived in Beijing while we were dating, so I have spent a lot of time in Beijing).

The Chinese are a fascinating people, and I love the classical Chinese culture, but they may seem pushy and rude in some circumstances when viewed with Western expectations. In an odd kind of tit for tat way Americans are frequently considered loud, and overly confident (a nice way to say pushy) about many things as well.
Click to expand...

They are pushy and rude because they will actually push you to cut in line in front of you. They will push you while you are walking on the street to get past you even though there is a crowd in front of you also going the same speed as you. In fact they are so pushy that it's a yearly occurrence that during the Chinese lantern festival that people are trampled to death because so many people are literally pushing you that you can't stop moving and once an unfortunate soul trips and falls there is no way for the horde of people to stop. So quite a few people die every year due to large crowds.

I live in China. This is what they do.
Never heard Japanese, Koreans or Thai people being anything but polite and curtious
 
StrangerGuy

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Tormac said:
China has a culture that has been isolated from the rest of the world for a fair amount of recent history, and has different expectations. The OP just ran into one of the larger differences, one that a western has to experience to really understand. That is the lack of this thing known as “personal space” in China. The expectation of everyone have a couple inches of sovereign air-space around them is not there in China. Because of this it may seem to Westerners that the Chinese are very pushy and rude, and can’t que at all. But in the Chinese culture, it is a given that people will close in together in places, and if you wait outside of the scrum, it will be interpreted as not interested in being in “line”.

This is something that you just have to experience in China repeatedly, until you no longer have the automatic expectation of personal space. Once you do then much of the “bad behavior” of Chinese tourists is more understandable.

The other thing that you have to experience is the size of things in China. Because of the size of the population, the Chinese are used to doing things on a scale that dwarf’s American expectations. I just got back from a family vacation in NYC. It was my first time there, and I could not help but compare it to Beijing, and how underwhelming NYC is compared to Beijing (I am an American, but have been a college student in Beijing, and my wife is a Chinese woman who lived in Beijing while we were dating, so I have spent a lot of time in Beijing).

The Chinese are a fascinating people, and I love the classical Chinese culture, but they may seem pushy and rude in some circumstances when viewed with Western expectations. In an odd kind of tit for tat way Americans are frequently considered loud, and overly confident (a nice way to say pushy) about many things as well.
Click to expand...

Yup the almighty cultural relativism where everything can be excused because "they have been always this way".
 
Capt Caveman

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Svnla said:
Are you for real?

Since when you have to be wealthy and developed "Western manners/expectations" to know NOT to do these nasty things:

1. Defecating/peeing in public
2. Taking all the foods at the buffets and throwing away most of them
2. Destroying ancient relics at the well know tourist sites
3. Spitting in public
4. Cutting in lines
5. Being so crazy loud and obnoxious
6. Ignoring the local culture and people
7. Throwing hot water in the face of the flight attendant
8. Trying to open the emergency exit while the airplane is in mid air
9. Smoking where it is not allowed

and on and on and on.
Click to expand...

Sounds like America

Why Is There So Much Human Shit on the Streets? — The Bold Italic — San Francisco
 
Svnla

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Capt Caveman said:
Sounds like America

Why Is There So Much Human Shit on the Streets? — The Bold Italic — San Francisco
Click to expand...

Did you bother to read your own article? See the word "homeless" in it?

It’s there for one reason, and one reason only: people needed to use the loo, and none was there for the using. And for the most part, these people are San Francisco’s massive homeless population.

There are more than 10,000 people living on the streets at any given time in our fair City by the Bay.
Click to expand...


Got it? Good.

America is NOT like china, not even a long shot. Thank goodness.

Keep digging deeper and trying harder to pull out more strawmans, comrade wumao.

The highlighted is over the line, an unnecessarily racist dig.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
Last edited:
J

jtvang125

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2004
5,399
51
91
They have no concept of a line or personal space. Once had a group cut right in front of us even though it was obvious there was a line from the queuing markers. Had to tell and point numerous times that they need to go there to get in line.

We sat on the benches along the sides of the ship for the tour. They literally came and stood right in our faces to take pictures. They'll even push and shove one another to get the spots with the best view. Once the tour guide announced to look to the other side of the ship, like a school of sardines they'll turn and swarm to the other side. This repeated for the whole tour.
 
Ns1

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
LOL omg guys, you reminded me of a story.

I'm at a hotel on a business trip. I sit down - there's a 2 top to the left of me, and a 2 top to the right of me. I'm sitting in the middle 2 top by myself.

2 chinese businessmen sit down to my right. 2 more sit down to my left. they start having a conversation with each other like I don't exist

then the 5th mother fucker comes and sits down across from me without asking and joins in on the conversation. WTF?!
 
Ns1

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
Anubis said:
ive never heard that and neither has google

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2+top
Click to expand...

common restaurant lingo, e.g.

http://www.chowhound.com/post/tops-tops-tricerotops-619133

When waiting tables I generally used it to describe dining parties, not furniture. I had 5-tops and 12-tops and such, regardless of the actual tables used to seat all these people. If the furniture was an issue (for example, when coordinating with the hostess to figure out what to push together) we would refer to the tables by their table number. I.e., "let's put 27 and 28 together to seat this 8-top that just came in."
Click to expand...
 
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