More anti-smoking measures, Philadelphia

[JEDIYoda]

damn don`t you just love all the smokers who are crying in this thread...rofl....

 

[fskimospy]

I don't know about conservatives but Individual liberty > community.

And it's not like you have no choice to go into their establishment or not so the negative health effects on you are a non sequitur.

I think it's that people appeal to the autonomy of local government when the federal government does something they don't like, and then they appeal to individual liberty when the local government does something they don't like.

Local governments are certainly within their power to regulate things like this, and I'm glad they do. I would be hard pressed to find someone I know, smokers included who aren't glad they banned smoking in bars in NYC and California (and lots of other places now). I'm pretty okay with expanding on that success.

 

[xj0hnx]

it's a very good thing for everyone.
Cancer and health is the most obvious reason, but secondhand smoking is very uncomfortable in general.
If I'm relaxing in a park, I sure as hell want to breathe the air, not cough because of the stinging odour of a drug addict.

Your freedom ends where the one of another starts.
Prostitution should be legal. Drugs (including cigarettes) in private use are not inherently wrong if it wasn't for the price the whole society has to pay when you can't work, need healthcare etc.

Someone smoking beside me in a public place I paid or will pay for with my taxes is violating my freedom to choose whether to smoke or not.
Someone banging a prostitute is not. Land of the free huh?

You are free to not visit any establishment that let's people smoke.

 

[Zebo]

damn don`t you just love all the smokers who are crying in this thread...rofl....

LOL I never smoked, well 2 joints which made me crawl in ball like a feeble animal, and hate smokers but I respect individual proprietors rights.

 

[xj0hnx]

damn don`t you just love all the smokers who are crying in this thread...rofl....

damn don't you just love all the self righteous totalitarians who are crying in this thread ...rofl....

 

[werepossum]

The sad thing is that even after I point out that you're wrong, you can't see where.


That's like having the death penalty for suicide.

Hey! There has been zero recidivism in suicides since the suicide death penalty was established!

This is just more of the progressive movement. Government owns everyone; why should government then allow its livestock to do things like smoking that diminish its value?

 

[TechBoyJK]

habitual cig smokers are just as much drug addicts as crack heads/meth heads/etc

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

You pointed out nothing other than your opinion.

Your method of argument is peculiar. Just throw red herrings and non sequiturs everywhere hoping one sticks, and ignore the arguments that you can't come up with a (fallacious) rebuttal to? Way to convince others of your opinion.

Idiot.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Good. I fucking hate the smell of cigarettes.

 

[woolfe9999]

Hey guys, local government, right? That's what conservatives are all about.

If you don't like how a municipality does their business, don't go there. Why are you trying to restrict a local area's right to self government?

I'm not trying to restrict it. I just disagree with it and am saying as much.

 

[modestninja]

One factor no one brought up is that despite not being a smoker, I still have to pay for their medical care when they can't afford it. Same thing when someone only eats processed and/or fast food. The people without insurance go to the emergency room, get treated, don't pay and raise my costs when I (who have insurance) go to the doctor/hospital.

They need to ramp up the taxes on things like tobacco, processed food and alcohol, not to raise revenue, but to alter behaviour and make up for the negative externalities incurred when people use these things that "don't affect" anyone else.

 

[werepossum]

One factor no one brought up is that despite not being a smoker, I still have to pay for their medical care when they can't afford it. Same thing when someone only eats processed and/or fast food. The people without insurance go to the emergency room, get treated, don't pay and raise my costs when I (who have insurance) go to the doctor/hospital.

They need to ramp up the taxes on things like tobacco, processed food and alcohol, not to raise revenue, but to alter behaviour and make up for the negative externalities incurred when people use these things that "don't affect" anyone else.

Yeah, who needs freedom when government can decide what is best and coerce us into doing it? After all, it's for our own good.

 

[modestninja]

Yeah, who needs freedom when government can decide what is best and coerce us into doing it? After all, it's for our own good.

I'm not saying impinge on anyone's freedom. I'm saying make them actually pay for the negative costs they are burdening society with that right now is unfairly foisted on everyone. Shouldn't I be free not to pay for some fat slob's emergency surgery (through higher health care costs) because he eats McDonald/smokes a pack of cigarettes every day?

I also get annoyed when the company I work for hires some morbidly obese person because I know that my health care insurance costs will be going up because of the increase in claims they cause.

 

[dmw16]

I'm not saying impinge on anyone's freedom. I'm saying make them actually pay for the negative costs they are burdening society with that right now is unfairly foisted on everyone. Shouldn't I be free not to pay for some fat slob's emergency surgery (through higher health care costs) because he eats McDonald/smokes a pack of cigarettes every day?

I also get annoyed when the company I work for hires some morbidly obese person because I know that my health care insurance costs will be going up because of the increase in claims they cause.

This is 100% on-the-mark.

I respect the rights of others to make choices that are different from the ones I make. However at this point everyone is aware of the health risks of smoking (and eating poorly). If those are the choices you want to make then by all means the government shouldn't stop you.

However, I choose not to smoke and I spend the time and money to eat well and stay active. So why should I have to shoulder the cost of caring for the health of those who knowingly make poor decisions? Whether it's thru government health coverage or my employer's health plan that I contribute too I am shouldering that cost.

The right's of smokers are no more or less important than my rights. I want the right to not have to insure that person because they should know better at this point.

 

[modestninja]

This is 100% on-the-mark.

I respect the rights of others to make choices that are different from the ones I make. However at this point everyone is aware of the health risks of smoking (and eating poorly). If those are the choices you want to make then by all means the government shouldn't stop you.

However, I choose not to smoke and I spend the time and money to eat well and stay active. So why should I have to shoulder the cost of caring for the health of those who knowingly make poor decisions? Whether it's thru government health coverage or my employer's health plan that I contribute too I am shouldering that cost.

The right's of smokers are no more or less important than my rights. I want the right to not have to insure that person because they should know better at this point.

The biggest problem with this type of tax scheme would be getting the government to spend it on mitigating the externalities for those that are affected, rather than spending the new income on some new program/tax break. But either way, we'd be better off since consumers are fairly price sensitive which would lead to a reduction in these types of behaviours and thus reduce the externalities.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

As a kid who grew up around a smoker, I can attest to the fact that second-hand smoke causes irreparable damage. I never realized how much I coughed and choked and how much junk I produced until I move out of my parents house. If anything it should be considered child abuse to smoke around children. I think there should be mandatory testing of school age children to check their nicotine level and parents should be put in jail for harming their kids.

Also, smokers need to get off of my fucking health insurance plan.

Lastly, smokers take a lot of breaks at work. You think we don't notice that you slip away for 5 minutes each hour to smoke? Yeah, that is 40 minutes per day wasted...then you take your breaks and lunch on top of it.

I am an employer. I would never hire a smoker.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Lastly, smokers take a lot of breaks at work. You think we don't notice that you slip away for 5 minutes each hour to smoke? Yeah, that is 40 minutes per day wasted...then you take your breaks and lunch on top of it.

I am an employer. I would never hire a smoker.

This is also a great point, although I've never worked with someone who smoked that much, it is annoying to watch.

 

[xj0hnx]

As a kid who grew up around a smoker, I can attest to the fact that second-hand smoke causes irreparable damage. I never realized how much I coughed and choked and how much junk I produced until I move out of my parents house. If anything it should be considered child abuse to smoke around children. I think there should be mandatory testing of school age children to check their nicotine level and parents should be put in jail for harming their kids.

My whole family smoked and it didn't cause me any issues.

Also, smokers need to get off of my fucking health insurance plan.

So should all those fatties that like their double cheeseburgers.

 

[Zebo]

As a kid who grew up around a smoker, I can attest to the fact that second-hand smoke causes irreparable damage. I never realized how much I coughed and choked and how much junk I produced until I move out of my parents house. If anything it should be considered child abuse to smoke around children. I think there should be mandatory testing of school age children to check their nicotine level and parents should be put in jail for harming their kids.

Also, smokers need to get off of my fucking health insurance plan.

Lastly, smokers take a lot of breaks at work. You think we don't notice that you slip away for 5 minutes each hour to smoke? Yeah, that is 40 minutes per day wasted...then you take your breaks and lunch on top of it.

I am an employer. I would never hire a smoker.

lolz don't say that I got a lot of heat for saying I would not hire one either. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2156850

But that's our choice right? Just like it's a bar owners choice if he wants to allow smoking patrons or not.

Insurance companies already amortize that smoker in cost sharing is not an issue on individual plans. Will effect group rate tho.

Kids? yeah probably parents should get on their house shoes.

 

[wirednuts]

The real objection I have to smoking and smokers is that it smells fucking disgusting. It's worse than perfume; tobacco smoke hangs around the person while they're not smoking as well, but especially downwind from a smoker you can smell them 10 or 20m away, which is quite a distance in a CBD.

id rather have people smell like cigs then the piss and BO that you smell nowadays in bars

 

[wirednuts]

As a kid who grew up around a smoker, I can attest to the fact that second-hand smoke causes irreparable damage. I never realized how much I coughed and choked and how much junk I produced until I move out of my parents house. If anything it should be considered child abuse to smoke around children. I think there should be mandatory testing of school age children to check their nicotine level and parents should be put in jail for harming their kids.

Also, smokers need to get off of my fucking health insurance plan.

Lastly, smokers take a lot of breaks at work. You think we don't notice that you slip away for 5 minutes each hour to smoke? Yeah, that is 40 minutes per day wasted...then you take your breaks and lunch on top of it.

I am an employer. I would never hire a smoker.

sad, but more often then not its true. i myself smoke like 2 a day, one before and one after work. occasionally ill smoke one during lunch... but ive never taken a "smoke break" because youre right. the people who do just take too damn long to go do it, and if you smoke more then a few cigs a day there is not much chance you will be as energetic as non smokers.

there are exceptions, ive seen some people that smoke a pack a day and it doesnt slow them down... but thats rare.

 

[fskimospy]

sad, but more often then not its true. i myself smoke like 2 a day, one before and one after work. occasionally ill smoke one during lunch... but ive never taken a "smoke break" because youre right. the people who do just take too damn long to go do it, and if you smoke more then a few cigs a day there is NO WAY you will be as energetic as non smokers.

As a non smoker I would love to see what would happen if I took a 'fuck off and do nothing break' for 5 minutes each hour. Something tells me that wouldn't fly.

 

[Doboji]

I think the crusade against Cigarette odor is ridiculous. And no I don't smoke. Why don't we establish a special department of the police to enforce odor standards too... after all if we're going to persecute people for the smell of cigarettes we should certainly enforce other stinky habits like farting, diesel engines and stinky armpits. Afterall your freedom ends at my nostrils right?

 

[fskimospy]

I think the crusade against Cigarette odor is ridiculous. And no I don't smoke. Why don't we establish a special department of the police to enforce odor standards too... after all if we're going to persecute people for the smell of cigarettes we should certainly enforce other stinky habits like farting, diesel engines and stinky armpits. Afterall your freedom ends at my nostrils right?

You realize that we already regulate things that generate an offensive odor and have done so for quite a long time, right?

 

[TechAZ]

As a kid who grew up around a smoker, I can attest to the fact that second-hand smoke causes irreparable damage. I never realized how much I coughed and choked and how much junk I produced until I move out of my parents house. If anything it should be considered child abuse to smoke around children. I think there should be mandatory testing of school age children to check their nicotine level and parents should be put in jail for harming their kids.

Also, smokers need to get off of my fucking health insurance plan.

Lastly, smokers take a lot of breaks at work. You think we don't notice that you slip away for 5 minutes each hour to smoke? Yeah, that is 40 minutes per day wasted...then you take your breaks and lunch on top of it.

I am an employer. I would never hire a smoker.

I agree with the first part, parents should never smoke in an enclosed area with children.

As to the work-related part.....If you are an employer, it is up to you (or whoever is in charge of managing/supervising) to ensure that everyone takes breaks and lunches appropriately. In MY experience, there are some smokers who take extra breaks, but if you actually cared about productivity you would monitor the work put out by each employee. There are many non-smokers where I work (and every where I have worked) that are not as productive as the smokers....even with the smokers taking extra breaks.