Montana Prematurely Ends Unemployment Benefits- Return to Work you Bums!

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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,144
12,573
136
Headline that caught my eye today:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...im-at-jobless-benefits/ar-BB1gzLZq?li=BBnb7Kz

From the article: Karl Rove, the Republican strategist and former aide to President George W. Bush, said on “Fox News Sunday” that “I had dinner last week with about eight C.E.O.’s of companies from around the country, mostly family-run, privately held companies. And I said, what’s the No. 1 issue you’re facing? Every one of them said, ‘I — we can’t get enough workers.’ Particularly, and this caught my ear. They said, ‘If the job pays $50,000 or $60,000 or less, it is virtually impossible for us to find workers.’”

So Americans no longer want shitty jobs for shitty pay when they get a taste of how normal people live, gotcha.
I'm gonna call bullshit on that, because 50k+ isn't bad money.
I bet you there are some serious caveats like"we want someone with 10 years experience at 50k but are unwilling to help train you if you don't have that experience"
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,835
2,628
126
False. You are not allowed to reject 'suitable employment', which broadly means employment roughly similar to your old job. If you make $100k a year and apply to McDonalds and then later decide not to take it you will not be disqualified.

$100k a year making Chicken Nuggets? Sign me up!
 
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obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
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I'm gonna call bullshit on that, because 50k+ isn't bad money.
I bet you there are some serious caveats like"we want someone with 10 years experience at 50k but are unwilling to help train you if you don't have that experience"

Exactly. No mention here of what kind of companies these are.. "We need a bar certified lawyer in NYC with 17 years of experience, but nobody will do the job for $34,000!! waah!"
"Candidates must have 43 years of experince and be able to lift 130 lb overhead for 16 hours a day. Pays $11/hr."
 

jameny5

Senior member
Aug 7, 2018
300
77
101
So what you're saying is you are jealous because he's two steps ahead of you?
And you know this information how? Maybe the degree isn't worth the ink it's written on!

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
Headline that caught my eye today:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...im-at-jobless-benefits/ar-BB1gzLZq?li=BBnb7Kz

From the article: Karl Rove, the Republican strategist and former aide to President George W. Bush, said on “Fox News Sunday” that “I had dinner last week with about eight C.E.O.’s of companies from around the country, mostly family-run, privately held companies. And I said, what’s the No. 1 issue you’re facing? Every one of them said, ‘I — we can’t get enough workers.’ Particularly, and this caught my ear. They said, ‘If the job pays $50,000 or $60,000 or less, it is virtually impossible for us to find workers.’”

So Americans no longer want shitty jobs for shitty pay when they get a taste of how normal people live, gotcha.
Not a problem, we will make them want a job by ending unemployment. They can make a decision of getting a job or going homeless. It's not the government job to give out out money to them.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
If Republican governors want to harm their states and constituents like they did with the ACA that’s up to them.
I remember hearing this same bullshit in 2010. Then extended UI went away, and guess what? Employment didn't shoot up over night.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,730
54,737
136
I remember hearing this same bullshit in 2010. Then extended UI went away, and guess what? Employment didn't shoot up over night.
I think it’s reasonable to think that the combination of pandemic restrictions, shitty work environment, and low pay makes the remaining months of UI more attractive than they would be otherwise.

I read a good idea to obviate this - if you get a job convert your remaining UI into a ‘congrats on the job’ bonus.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,367
136
The average state unemployment pay is $300 a week. Plus $300 from the feds. so $600 a week. Under 30K a year. You can't do much with under 30K a year in many parts of the country. These people aren't living large, unless you are a kid living with your parents and have zero bills to pay, then yes, a free 2400 a month can be a lot of fun. Sometimes you can't make sure everyone is behaving, otherwise a lot of people who need the help aren't going to get it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,570
6,712
126
Might want to take a moment to consider if your previous allusions to me being a Nazi were projection. ;)
An excellent case could be made that I am a Nazi. I am more than happy, say, to tell children not to play in the street and would pass laws preventing them from legally buying tobacco and a hundred other things. And it is absolutely because I believe 100% that my judgement is vastly superior. Similarly, I am equally certain I would not suggest to people they be given an option to live like ants. And as you could never convince me to abandon what I regard as a sacred duty to children, I would likewise never abandon by duty to adults who live in ignorance.

In that respect I am no different than you. You are utterly convinced your point of view should prevail over mine and that I am the real Nazi.

But the thing about projection you may have missed is that it happens to people who do not see that what they see in others is the truth about themselves. But I see the same Nazi in you that I see in me. Where we differ, in my opinion, regards who best understands what really is best for people on this single issue. You believe absolutely that property tax should be equal to the present value of property in all cases and I do not.

Furthermore, even though I voted against 13 and likely reduce the amount of real homelessness more than you do, and furthermore have only one measly vote that alone will never change anything, you seem to imply that I should suffer from some sort of guilt trip. Please do not worry or be sad. I defeated the nothing. I think I can handle this too.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,730
54,737
136
An excellent case could be made that I am a Nazi. I am more than happy, say, to tell children not to play in the street and would pass laws preventing them from legally buying tobacco and a hundred other things. And it is absolutely because I believe 100% that my judgement is vastly superior. Similarly, I am equally certain I would not suggest to people they be given an option to live like ants. And as you could never convince me to abandon what I regard as a sacred duty to children, I would likewise never abandon by duty to adults who live in ignorance.

In that respect I am no different than you. You are utterly convinced your point of view should prevail over mine and that I am the real Nazi.

But the thing about projection you may have missed is that it happens to people who do not see that what they see in others is the truth about themselves. But I see the same Nazi in you that I see in me. Where we differ, in my opinion, regards who best understands what really is best for people on this single issue. You believe absolutely that property tax should be equal to the present value of property in all cases and I do not.

Furthermore, even though I voted against 13 and likely reduce the amount of real homelessness more than you do, and furthermore have only one measly vote that alone will never change anything, you seem to imply that I should suffer from some sort of guilt trip. Please do not worry or be sad. I defeated the nothing. I think I can handle this too.
I don’t think you’re a Nazi at all, haha, I just thought that since you alluded to me being one you might benefit from some self reflection as to whose argument more closely resembles it.

I get how you desire to control your fellow adults in the same way adults control children. I think that’s weird and bad and you should stop.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,170
18,807
146

Yeah, one group in Montana proved it was low wages and NOT unemployment keeping workers away:

For some businesses, especially mom-and-pop shops like Black Cat Bake Shop in Missoula, Montana, there's a ceiling to how much they can raise wages, said co-owner Christy Wich, who runs the bakery with her husband, Jack. Considering margins are as thin as pasty flakes, any increases in expenses would have to get passed along to the customers, she said.
And in Montana, a $6 cinnamon roll just wouldn't fly, she added.

Black Cat did increase its wages for its open jobs to $10.50 and $11.50 an hour, which are above Montana's minimum wage of $8.65, but has still struggled to find workers, a challenge that was first reported by the Missoulian newspaper.

"The public wants to support us, they want those items, but we don't have the workforce, the hands to make all of that," she told CNN Business.
Wich said she's hopeful that Governor Greg Gianforte's recent decision to remove the state from the federal unemployment program of extended benefits will help to push more people back into the workforce.

5th Street Group's Whalen has taken a unique approach to trying to solve worker shortages and ease low-wage concerns.

Last month, 5th Street Group announced a guaranteed minimum wage of $15 per hour and established the "Tip the Kitchen Initiative," which adds a second line on the receipt to give patrons the opportunity to also toss some cash to the back-of-the-house staff. In 19 days, the second tip line amounted to nearly $40,000 for 5th Street's kitchen workers.
"One of my big regrets in life is that we didn't think of this way, way sooner," he said.

The moves have been good for business, too, Whalen said.

Last week, 20 job-seekers came through Tempest's doors. His restaurants are fully staffed.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
The average state unemployment pay is $300 a week. Plus $300 from the feds. so $600 a week. Under 30K a year. You can't do much with under 30K a year in many parts of the country. These people aren't living large, unless you are a kid living with your parents and have zero bills to pay, then yes, a free 2400 a month can be a lot of fun. Sometimes you can't make sure everyone is behaving, otherwise a lot of people who need the help aren't going to get it.

You do realize that plenty of people either:

1) Work casually with an occasional Uber drive or so
2) Work part-time, and regardless of making a decent wage such as $12/hr for retail - would still make SIGNIFICANTLY more on unemployment
3) Just to put this into perspective, you realize that @ $600/week thats equivalent to a $15/hr job full time, right?

There isn't a question - unemployment is a HUGE part of why people aren't going back to work.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,170
18,807
146
You do realize that plenty of people either:

1) Work casually with an occasional Uber drive or so
2) Work part-time, and regardless of making a decent wage such as $12/hr for retail - would still make SIGNIFICANTLY more on unemployment
3) Just to put this into perspective, you realize that @ $600/week thats equivalent to a $15/hr job full time, right?

There isn't a question - unemployment is a HUGE part of why people aren't going back to work.

I JUST proved that wrong. Maybe you should read the article? A LOT of low paid workers transitioned to better jobs during the pandemic.

Companies that offer 15 an hour starting wages are fully staffed and have a glut of applications.


Not to mention, how incredibly out of touch with reality and economics must you be to think 300 a week would keep people from going back to work for at least 100 a week more???

It's not, people are just refusing minimum wage jobs and choosing higher paying jobs now.

For the same reason they refuse field hand jobs for shit pay.

This is quite simple, jobs paying 15 or more an hour have no trouble filling positions. It is ONLY the shit jobs that pay nothing that are having trouble.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,113
45,111
136
Just convert the remaining UI into a bonus for people who take jobs.

The savage entitlement of the food service industry to ample cheap labor at all times in particular is really irking me though and I am part owner of a food service (amongst other things) business. We don't own those fucking people.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
I JUST proved that wrong. Maybe you should read the article? A LOT of low paid workers transitioned to better jobs during the pandemic.

Companies that offer 15 an hour starting wages are fully staffed and have a glut of applications.

No. No they aren't lol. There are labor shortages all around in any and all low-skilled positions.



Not to mention, how incredibly out of touch with reality and economics must you be to think 300 a week would keep people from going back to work for at least 100 a week more???

It's not, people are just refusing minimum wage jobs and choosing higher paying jobs now.

For the same reason they refuse field hand jobs for shit pay.

This is quite simple, jobs paying 15 or more an hour have no trouble filling positions. It is ONLY the shit jobs that pay nothing that are having trouble.

I read your dumb post and article. They essentially said "We moved to a guilt-trip model where we put a tip bar on the receipt - even though there is nothing to tip us for and it gives us more money!". If you're too scared to raise your prices and instead rely on guilt tripping people with tip lines - you're also a giant piece of shit of a human.

Wow. Congrats.

There is clearly something not aligned here - these positions ARE the market. That is what they are worth. That isn't a question. Yes, if you raise the rates then it will increase your pool of workers - that still doesn't take away from the fact from ECON 101 type shit that the ONLY reason they are having to do that is because the labor pool is severely lacking from the unemployment payouts. You decrease the supply of workers from ridiculous unemployment payouts - that hinders your pool of workers. Why am I having to explain this to grown adults?

Instead you just tell yourself fairy tales of "DUR HUR! SEE! DEY DUN INCREASED THE PAYOUT and then they got more workers!". No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean that is an actual reflection of the market rate for the position when unemployment payouts DIRECTLY AFFECTS this.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,637
136
No. No they aren't lol. There are labor shortages all around in any and all low-skilled positions.




I read your dumb post and article. They essentially said "We moved to a guilt-trip model where we put a tip bar on the receipt - even though there is nothing to tip us for and it gives us more money!". If you're too scared to raise your prices and instead rely on guilt tripping people with tip lines - you're also a giant piece of shit of a human.

Wow. Congrats.

There is clearly something not aligned here - these positions ARE the market. That is what they are worth. That isn't a question. Yes, if you raise the rates then it will increase your pool of workers - that still doesn't take away from the fact from ECON 101 type shit that the ONLY reason they are having to do that is because the labor pool is severely lacking from the unemployment payouts. You decrease the supply of workers from ridiculous unemployment payouts - that hinders your pool of workers. Why am I having to explain this to grown adults?

Instead you just tell yourself fairy tales of "DUR HUR! SEE! DEY DUN INCREASED THE PAYOUT and then they got more workers!". No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean that is an actual reflection of the market rate for the position when unemployment payouts DIRECTLY AFFECTS this.
The market rate is already manipulated all to hell. Why does this specific market manipulation bother you? Because it results in better compensation for workers?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,570
6,712
126
I don’t think you’re a Nazi at all, haha, I just thought that since you alluded to me being one you might benefit from some self reflection as to whose argument more closely resembles it.

I get how you desire to control your fellow adults in the same way adults control children. I think that’s weird and bad and you should stop.
What is an adult. What is weird to me is how you seem to define one. I have no desire to control anybody. I would also stop a person in good physical health from committing suicide because I know that the nothing that haunts them can be defeated. It’s like Cantata 147, the expression of being. I have explained what can’t be explained as best I can. We do not live in the same reality.

The mental framework that propels your conclusions strike me as equally applicable to an argument for the practice of euthanasia. Euthanasia just seems to be equally reasonable. A really great way eliminate the NIMBY vote.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,170
18,807
146
No. No they aren't lol. There are labor shortages all around in any and all low-skilled positions.




I read your dumb post and article. They essentially said "We moved to a guilt-trip model where we put a tip bar on the receipt - even though there is nothing to tip us for and it gives us more money!". If you're too scared to raise your prices and instead rely on guilt tripping people with tip lines - you're also a giant piece of shit of a human.

Wow. Congrats.

There is clearly something not aligned here - these positions ARE the market. That is what they are worth. That isn't a question. Yes, if you raise the rates then it will increase your pool of workers - that still doesn't take away from the fact from ECON 101 type shit that the ONLY reason they are having to do that is because the labor pool is severely lacking from the unemployment payouts. You decrease the supply of workers from ridiculous unemployment payouts - that hinders your pool of workers. Why am I having to explain this to grown adults?

Instead you just tell yourself fairy tales of "DUR HUR! SEE! DEY DUN INCREASED THE PAYOUT and then they got more workers!". No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean that is an actual reflection of the market rate for the position when unemployment payouts DIRECTLY AFFECTS this.

You're projecting again.

Obviously you're too stupid to understand the MARKET VALUE OF A THING IS ONLY WORTH WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO SELL/BUY IT FOR.

If you cannot fill positions at $10.50 an hour but you can at $15 an hour plus added tips, THAT IS MARKET FORCES AT WORK. THE MARKET DEMANDS 15 an hour minimum and favors added tips over no added tips.

Labor is a commodity and it's value is set just as much by what people are willing to sell it for as what people are willing to pay for it.

You are NOT entitled to pay what you want for a commodity at the expense of the seller.

You suck at capitalism. Capitalism is SUPPLY and DEMAND. BOTH. Not just one.

DUR HUR indeed.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,730
54,737
136
What is an adult. What is weird to me is how you seem to define one. I have no desire to control anybody. I would also stop a person in good physical health from committing suicide because I know that the nothing that haunts them can be defeated. It’s like Cantata 147, the expression of being. I have explained what can’t be explained as best I can. We do not live in the same reality.

The mental framework that propels your conclusions strike me as equally applicable to an argument for the practice of euthanasia. Euthanasia just seems to be equally reasonable. A really great way eliminate the NIMBY vote.
‘I have no desire to control anybody’

‘Also, no person should be permitted to live in a house I do not approve of’

We definitely don’t live in the same reality. You need to take a step back and examine yourself because you’ve gotten high on your own supply.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
No. No they aren't lol. There are labor shortages all around in any and all low-skilled positions.




I read your dumb post and article. They essentially said "We moved to a guilt-trip model where we put a tip bar on the receipt - even though there is nothing to tip us for and it gives us more money!". If you're too scared to raise your prices and instead rely on guilt tripping people with tip lines - you're also a giant piece of shit of a human.

Wow. Congrats.

There is clearly something not aligned here - these positions ARE the market. That is what they are worth. That isn't a question. Yes, if you raise the rates then it will increase your pool of workers - that still doesn't take away from the fact from ECON 101 type shit that the ONLY reason they are having to do that is because the labor pool is severely lacking from the unemployment payouts. You decrease the supply of workers from ridiculous unemployment payouts - that hinders your pool of workers. Why am I having to explain this to grown adults?

Instead you just tell yourself fairy tales of "DUR HUR! SEE! DEY DUN INCREASED THE PAYOUT and then they got more workers!". No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean that is an actual reflection of the market rate for the position when unemployment payouts DIRECTLY AFFECTS this.
I agree about the tip line, fuck that shit.

Otherwise, this is supply and demand. When the demand is higher than the supply prices go up until supply matches demand. Yes, some businesses may fail because of higher costs, which also helps lower the demand
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
The market rate is already manipulated all to hell. Why does this specific market manipulation bother you? Because it results in better compensation for workers?
Because it isn't a true reflection of the market - as you stated. So don't be someone stupid that cites what folks are currently paid during a ln unemployment bananza and say that is the market rate. You have to be a complete moron to suggest such.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,637
136
Because it isn't a true reflection of the market - as you stated. So don't be someone stupid that cites what folks are currently paid during a ln unemployment bananza and say that is the market rate. You have to be a complete moron to suggest such.
Yes, but the market was also heavily manipulated before the pandemic. So why were salaries before the pandemic a true reflection of the market when there were other manipulations in place? You certainly aren't so foolish as to believe that we should pursue a pure free market with no government interventions, right?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
You're projecting again.

Obviously you're too stupid to understand the MARKET VALUE OF A THING IS ONLY WORTH WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO SELL/BUY IT FOR.

If you cannot fill positions at $10.50 an hour but you can at $15 an hour plus added tips, THAT IS MARKET FORCES AT WORK. THE MARKET DEMANDS 15 an hour minimum and favors added tips over no added tips.

Labor is a commodity and it's value is set just as much by what people are willing to sell it for as what people are willing to pay for it.

You are NOT entitled to pay what you want for a commodity at the expense of the seller.

You suck at capitalism. Capitalism is SUPPLY and DEMAND. BOTH. Not just one.

DUR HUR indeed.

That is not the market forces lol. The unemployment bonus directly interferes with the market. Your pool of labor is directly limited BECAUSE of unemployment. If enhanced unemployment didn't exist, there wouor be substantially more qualified labor that would drive down the price.

Please don't tell me you're this slow?