Mobile Haswell achieves all day battery life - beginning of the end for ARM?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Arzachel

Senior member
Apr 7, 2011
903
76
91
There are plenty of consumers that do not want bargain bin cheap products. This is precisely why PC makers have been struggling - in prior years they have traditionally competed on price only. Then apple comes along, and turns everything around out of the blue.

There is a lot of demand for real computing devices, there has been quite a paradigm shift recently in the US. Consumers are willing to pay more for better products.

Where are all these killer apps that bring dual core A15s to knees? I mean more GPU grunt to push the high res displays would be great, and if you're using a device with poor memory bandwith and slow NAND, the UI might feel sluggish, but what the hell are you doing that needs more CPU power?

I guess Windows Surface Pro tablets might be selling like hotcakes as we speak, but it seems that you're taking your wants and needs and assuming that the whole market is you.
 

Puppies04

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2011
5,909
17
76
Hah, I was wondering when someone would notice that! I'd already had a couple of minor infractions for posts that were taking the piss a bit, so it wasn't out of the blue. I'll be going back when my vacation's over, anyway. (The guy did have it coming though.)

Link? :D.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
0
People are going to keep buying tablets. But they are in a fad phase right now. They are not going to replace real computers for anyone who needs a real computer, just for Grandma and little Johnny, who only had a real computer because that's all that was available.

The next "killer app" will come eventually, and people will care about more than just battery life once again. It's inevitable.

As for tablets, given the choice between a tablet that costs $600 and runs standard Windows applications, and one that costs $400 and doesn't, plenty of people will buy the latter, but plenty will also buy the former. In five years, though, those tablets will probably be selling for the same price, and that's when the toys will be in real trouble.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
People are going to keep buying tablets. But they are in a fad phase right now. They are not going to replace real computers for anyone who needs a real computer, just for Grandma and little Johnny, who only had a real computer because that's all that was available.

The next "killer app" will come eventually, and people will care about more than just battery life once again. It's inevitable.

As for tablets, given the choice between a tablet that costs $600 and runs standard Windows applications, and one that costs $400 and doesn't, plenty of people will buy the latter, but plenty will also buy the former. In five years, though, those tablets will probably be selling for the same price, and that's when the toys will be in real trouble.

Precisely. For a grandmother that only uses media consumption, ARM devices are fine. Real computing and real power has a place though, and once intel equalizes battery life to ARM devices - I do believe that 500$ and up tablets will begin to use intel chips. A full x86 PC has far more functionality and versatality than any android or iOS device; however intel chips haven't made headway in the 500$+ tablet market due to battery life. This will change drastically in the coming year.

One can argue "but I only need email and web". For those people who don't need a real computer, sure, a 200$ ARM device is great. I can assure you however that there are plenty of people who would like a real computing experience.
 

Arzachel

Senior member
Apr 7, 2011
903
76
91
Yep.

That combined with the toy computer fad beginning to fade....

I'm not worried, if I'm Intel.

Yeah, because desktop hardware is doing so gr... at least laptop sales are doing we... hmm. Did the mainframe guys call personal computing a fad too? :D

I think the most entertainment I've gotten is seeing so-called "tech enthusiasts" becoming technophobes the instant they step one foot outside their comfort zone. "My tablet is being sluggish? Better not root/jailbreak/overclock/fiddle with it. That might actually be *shudders* ...fun!"
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,372
12,960
136
I'll believe it when I see it.

+1

(dont get me wrong, i'd love a tablet/phone with all the power of haswell and nix/windows under the hood, but pigs aint flying, hell isnt frozen and the fat lady ..... is still fat!)
 
Last edited:

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Yeah, because desktop hardware is doing so gr... at least laptop sales are doing we... hmm. Did the mainframe guys call personal computing a fad too? :D

I think the most entertainment I've gotten is seeing so-called "tech enthusiasts" becoming technophobes the instant they step one foot outside their comfort zone. "My tablet is being sluggish? Better not root/jailbreak/overclock/fiddle with it. That might actually be *shudders* ...fun!"

You're way off the mark here. I think most here aren't "technophobes", we welcome new and better technology. I certainly am not clinging to the desktop as you condescendingly suggest.

Here's the thing though: Currently many people, including myself, have multiple devices. I have an ipad, ultrabook, and a desktop. While the ipad is fun for certain things, there most certainly is a large divide between what I can get done on an ipad and what I can get done an ultrabook. This is the real issue. Once ultrabook power can be harnessed in a tablet form factor, without making sacrifices to battery life - this will be a true technology advancement to be excited about.

What I want is NOT HAVING multiple devices. Intel will give us that. Again, this is not about being technophobes, we welcome it - but current tech has a large divide in computing power between ARM tablets and ultrabooks. Who doesn't want one device instead of two?
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,946
1,638
136
Maybe around 10nm. Depending on how much Intel wants for their processors. It doesn't make any sense to put a $200 CPU into a tablet that sells for $199.

What I can envision though, is for example an ipad (Since iOS is a subset of OS X, it can already run on x86) that acts like a tablet, until you get home and plug it into your monitor, keyboard, mouse etc via a single Thunderbolt cable.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,251
5,055
136
Maybe around 10nm. Depending on how much Intel wants for their processors. It doesn't make any sense to put a $200 CPU into a tablet that sells for $199.

What I can envision though, is for example an ipad (Since iOS is a subset of OS X, it can already run on x86) that acts like a tablet, until you get home and plug it into your monitor, keyboard, mouse etc via a single Thunderbolt cable.

Or a single USB3 cable- which can also deliver enough power to charge the tablet. ;) http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/07/power-your-laptop-with-a-usb-cable/#.URPRyaWEysY
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,372
12,960
136
...
What I want is NOT HAVING multiple devices. Intel will give us that. Again, this is not about being technophobes, we welcome it - but current tech has a large divide in computing power between ARM tablets and ultrabooks. Who doesn't want one device instead of two?

While i get what your saying, i really dont. In my little wobbly world it makes sense to have like One major computing power at your disposal, most likely the one that needs the lowest latency between input and output (read gaming console, gaming pc) in your home. All my other devices, including phone, tablet, fridge, vacuumer whatever should DEPEND on thise source for their heavy computing tasks and other than that be kinda-dumb-terminals.

So, put a haswell in my console, hell put 4, and let me have dumb cheap terminals as phone/tablet/whatever(even pc) that is hooked up. That is the scenario i wanna approach.
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,968
75
91
I don't think Haswell will even be the beginning of the end for ARM. It might be the end of ARM's dream of breaking into the high-end, though. The new Atoms are where Intel will be taking the fight to ARM.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I don't think Haswell will even be the beginning of the end for ARM. It might be the end of ARM's dream of breaking into the high-end, though. The new Atoms are where Intel will be taking the fight to ARM.

Yeah, ARM devices will only be competing for low volume and low performance -- And ARM devices will not have a battery life advantage as they do now.

For the 500$ and up market, I can see intel winning and winning big. There is simply no reason to use ARM with all other things being equal, if intel equalizes on battery life; using an intel chip will allow much more powerful and versatile devices. Imagine, if you will, a macbook air but in an ipad form factor -- they can even get creative and do a design similar to Lenovo's upcoming Helix (one of the coolest convertibles i've seen so far..). Haswell will allow for even smaller form factors with better battery life. As i've said before, this is a technology advancement that excites me greatly.
 
Last edited:

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I guess we need to find out what they mean by continuous run. If by continuous run they mean watching a movie or playing games. Congrats. If they mean it can idle for 9 hours whoopie do.

I'd still like to know how big a battery this requires.
 

Blandge

Member
Jul 10, 2012
172
0
0
Tablets aren't going anywhere any time soon, and the sooner you come to terms with this the happier you will be. A television is nothing but a media consumption device, and there's one in every living room in the first world.

By 2014 there will be almost no distinction between a tablet and an "Ultrabook" except that one has a keyboard and one doesn't.
 
Last edited:

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Anybody who truly believes that tablets are a fad and people are going to stop buying them is delusional. Tablets aren't going anywhere any time soon, and the sooner you come to terms with this the happier you will be. A television is nothing but a media consumption device, and there's one in every living room in the first world.

By 2014 there will be almost no distinction between a tablet and an "Ultrabook" except that one has a keyboard and one doesn't.

IT'S like you didn't read the thread at all. Point out one post in which someone said tablets are a fad. Go on, do it. I think someone else is delusional.

It's great when someone jumps in for a post and doesn't even read the thread for context.
 

dqniel

Senior member
Mar 13, 2004
650
0
76
Tablets aren't going anywhere any time soon, and the sooner you come to terms with this the happier you will be. A television is nothing but a media consumption device, and there's one in every living room in the first world.

By 2014 there will be almost no distinction between a tablet and an "Ultrabook" except that one has a keyboard and one doesn't.

While I agree with the direction, I don't think it will happen "by 2014." That's less than a year, and there's a huge discrepancy in many aspects between ultrabooks and tablets.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
While I agree with the direction, I don't think it will happen "by 2014." That's less than a year, and there's a huge discrepancy in many aspects between ultrabooks and tablets.

NOBODY in this thread stated that tablets are a fad. Don't feed an argument for someone who didn't read for context; it was simply someone jumping in a thread with pre-conceived notions of what was being said (and completely incorrect obviously) and then posting a response.

The statement was that intel hasn't been taken seriously in the premium tablet market due to battery life - and Haswell will change this. Haswell will allow high performance computing for tablet form factors; currently high end tablets are dominated by low performance and high battery life ARM devices. In essence, with Haswell (if intel is to be believed) -- you can get ultrabook performance in a tablet device, without sacrificing battery life. Not once has anyone stated that tablets are a fad. Someone should read for context.
 
Last edited:

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
0
I remember when the desktop pc was called a toy computer.

That's because they weren't very powerful.

I'm not talking about power here -- I'm sure tablets can be made pretty powerful within a few years. I'm talking about overall functionality and usability, where IMO tablets fall flat for anyone who cares about productivity.

Also applications, outside the x86 world. (Yeah, I'm an x86 snob.)
 

dqniel

Senior member
Mar 13, 2004
650
0
76
Jesus Christ. Let's shoot this down before it becomes something ridiculous.

NOBODY in this thread stated that tablets are a fad. Don't feed an argument for someone who didn't read for context; it was simply someone jumping in a thread with pre-conceived notions of what was being said (and completely incorrect obviously) and then posting a response.

The statement was that intel hasn't been taken seriously in the premium tablet market due to battery life - and Haswell will change this. Haswell will allow high performance computing for tablet form factors; currently high end tablets are dominated by low performance and high battery life ARM devices. In essence, with Haswell (if intel is to be believed) -- you can get ultrabook performance in a tablet device, without sacrificing battery life. Not once has anyone stated that tablets are a fad. Someone should read for context.

Nothing in your reply has anything to do with what I said. I was commenting on the "convergence" of ultrabooks and tablets, nothing more and nothing less, and certainly nothing to do with whether tablets are a "fad" or not.

They are, indeed, becoming more similar with each respective evolution. Display technologies are becoming more similar, tablets are getting more powerful and ultrabooks are getting more efficient, and so on. I was just commenting on the speed at which I think it is occurring.

Perhaps you meant to quote somebody else?