Mobile chips 2017: Qualcomm, Mediatek, Exynos and More

[dark zero]

Seeing that there is no topic regarding those mobile chips, besides this ones:

- Qualcomm Snapdragon 835
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-835s-second-cluster-is-a-cortex-a53.2497733/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11201/qualcomm-snapdragon-835-performance-preview/2

- Spreadtrum 14 nm
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/spreadtrum-14nm-soc-with-intel-airmont-x-8.2500347/

I will create this topic to talk about it.

So, how we start?

Qualcomm
As far we know, Qualcomm will deliver 2 high performance chips this year: The snapdragon 835 and the 660.

--> Snapdragon 835
Ok, this chip has the following configuration:

4X Qualcomm Kryo 280 at 2.45 Ghz
4X Qualcomm Kryo 280 at 1.9 Ghz
Adreno 540

Process: Samsung 10 nm

Also has some benchmarks appearing:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...sults-comparisons-pixel-oneplus-3t-galaxy-s7/

One of them is Geekbench:

And there is one from the Galaxy S8

http://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2278969

As far we see Qualcomm improved dramatically their MT performance, but on Single Thread the improvement... feels far less than expecting.

Even more, I feel that ST they got somehow stuck.
http://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2296216

Here is one of the best performers of the Snapdragon 821 which is OnePlus 3T and the difference is so low CPU wise... seems that Kryo could be improved at 10nm or just adding some L2/L3 cache on it.

--> Snapdragon 660
And how about the 2nd one? (660), ok, there is a leak showing up the configuration on it.

http://www.androidauthority.com/qualcomm-snapdragon-835-specs-leak-730977/

And here is the Antutu Score, which reached 100K (!)
http://www.gizchina.com/2017/03/14/snapdragon-660-reaches-quite-nice-score-antutu/

Seems great CPU wise (it would replaced the ARM A53 for A35 and it would be perfect), but GPU wise seems that they could reach better numbers....

Also... it will be a Hexa Core variant of it?

Seems that Qualcomm did a gamebreaker chip which is the 660, but at the same time a not so great as expected chip (835). Well, time to see how high can go the 835... There is a "fake" leak of the Xiaomi Mi6 with that chip making it reach over 200K on Antutu. So, there is potential on it.

Samsung

Now... we have only the Exynos 8895 which ended to be... an interesting chip.

https://www.gizmochina.com/2016/12/28/specification-details-samsung-exynos-8895-leaked/

Let's ignore the 835 leak which ended to be false... the Exynos ones ended to be real.

Process: Samsung 10 nm

And we got some Antutu and Geekbench results of it.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8_with_exynos_8895_benchmarked-news-24283.php

Antutu: 174155
Geekbench Single Core: 1974
Geekbench Multi Core: 6339

And it seems that we have some real potential on it. Samsung did a solid job on improving their chip and seems that has a variant for Meizu (8895V).

But it made me wonder... when Samsung decides to use the M2 Core outside the S line and put it on the A line (the Galaxy A5 2017 still uses ARM A53 cores and that is slow for this time)?

Also... seems that is time to custom the lower power cores too.

Mediatek

Well... Mediatek... how we can start?
Despite having a rough year, they have also 2 high performance chips this year: The Helio X30 and the Helio P30/P35.

--> Helio X30
Ok, let's first talk about the flagship.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11166/mediatek-helio-x30-10-cores-on-10nm
It will have the following configuration.

CPU:
- 2x Cortex-A73 @2.5GHz
- 4x Cortex-A53 @2.2GHz
- 4x Cortex-A35 @1.9GHz
GPU PowerVR 7XTP-MT4 @800MHz (aka GT 7400 Plus)
Process: TSMC at 10 nm

Seems that after the dissaster of the Mali 880 MP4, they decided to return to Power VR again and they are selling their chips for Mediatek which has again a solid entry on their hands.

As for now they leaked some benchmarks:

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/mobile/43246-mediatek-helio-x30-scores-5750-in-geekbench
Geekbench Single Core: 2100
Geekbench Multi Core: 5761
GFX bench 3.0 T-Rex: 85 Fps
GFX bench Manhattan test: 40 Fps

Considering that they said that they reached 160K on Antutu, I can see that after refining it it would reach over 175K, beating the Snapdragon 821 on literally everything.... and finally be near the 835 performance, but not defeating it.

Ok, that won't be interesting... but the ones who wants to use that chip confirmed is Vernee, Meizu, Elephone and seems that Asus is on talks...

http://www.gsmarena.com/meizus_2017_roadmap_purportedly_leaks-news-22448.php --> Meizu (which also seems that Helio P30 is on their plans, which I will talk later)

https://www.gizmochina.com/2017/03/31/asus-might-use-mediatek-chips-next-generation-zenfones/ --> Asus

And seems that Mediatek is finally trying to play as equal to Qualcomm, but the problem? Drivers... always are the drivers... if they open it, they would win a community for them.

--> Helio P30/P35

Ok time to talk about the little brother and this is interesting since it could be 2 different chips.

But why together?
Ok, it will mark some changes:
The introduction of the Tri Cluster on the Helio P line....

https://www.androidheadlines.com/20...35-soc-specs-leak-deca-core-cpu-expected.html

Yeah, the production is TSMC 10 nm

They will still use the Mali G71 this time.

And now... what is the difference between Helio P30 and P35?

Well, there was a rumor that said Helio P30 along the P20 and 25 would be made at 16 nm. Mediatek later "ditched" the P30, however considering that there is a problem with the 10nm production, they are thinking to bring it back and putting the P35 to a later date of this year (Q4)

So, seems that this year Mediatek will have an interesting year despite this.

Huawei

Ok, time for the next one which has the Kirin 970 on their works... few information I found.
https://www.gizmochina.com/2016/12/...k-10nm-tsmc-process-cat-12-lte-octa-core-cpu/

The process is TSMC 10 nm too.

Also is still pending the GPU configuration this time

So, Huawei only has this chip leaked and no mid ranger changes... seems that is not the year for them.


------------------------------------

And well, that's all as far as I see.
If ther are news relating to that is great to include it on this topic to maintain an interesting talking about mobile chips. I'll update later for more companies like Xiaomi or Spreadtrum


EDIT: Thanks for everyone who worked on the articles I linked. You did a great work.

 

[AMDisTheBEST]

They are already at 10nm? ARM moves so much faster than Intel`s lazy tick tock op.

 

[dark zero]

New info...

Galaxy S8 Exynos benchmarked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXI_l3M5fA

Only reaches 175K.

Hope that is due pre production and not the real deal, otherwise the 10 nm will dissapoint a LOT... and I won't expect to see Apple reaching 250K on Antutu...

 

[Lodix]

New info...

Galaxy S8 Exynos benchmarked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXI_l3M5fA

Only reaches 175K.

Hope that is due pre production and not the real deal, otherwise the 10 nm will dissapoint a LOT... and I won't expect to see Apple reaching 250K on Antutu...

Antutu is not the best benchmark out there... it test more things than just the the SOC and it is more focused on single threaded performance. The RAM and memory speed didn't increased much this year so they hog part of the score. But a good thing is that you can see a healthy 50% increase in GPU performance.

And we have to wait for more in depth details, this year they are supposed to target a lower TDP and be more efficient so they didn't increased the numbers by much. We have to wait to see if the fault is bad yields or they delivered with this conservative design.

 

[dark zero]

Antutu is not the best benchmark out there... it test more things than just the the SOC and it is more focused on single threaded performance. The RAM and memory speed didn't increased much this year so they hog part of the score. But a good thing is that you can see a healthy 50% increase in GPU performance.

And we have to wait for more in depth details, this year they are supposed to target a lower TDP and be more efficient so they didn't increased the numbers by much. We have to wait to see if the fault is bad yields or they delivered with this conservative design.

If Apple delivers 250K on their next chip, which is likely, stock ARM will need a MASSIVE revamp to stay competitive.
And it will be worse for Qualcomm.

 

[BD231]

If Apple delivers 250K on their next chip, which is likely, stock ARM will need a MASSIVE revamp to stay competitive.
And it will be worse for Qualcomm.

Cant imagine what you'd need that kind of power for .... I'm having a hell of a time finding a replacement for this Motorola Nexus 6 as nothing *feels* faster and everything left with a screen of this size is phablet territory. Unfortunately all the quad HD displays are IPS which are terrible compared to amoled.

Glad to see the 8 cores back but screen is everything and S8 note looks to be the only option. 1080p looks terrible and I won't sacrifice width for a higher res on s8 or s8+.

 

[pooptastic]

What's the word on the DynamIQ architecture change coming up?

 

[Lodix]

If Apple delivers 250K on their next chip, which is likely, stock ARM will need a MASSIVE revamp to stay competitive.
And it will be worse for Qualcomm.

Do you realise that for it to reach 250k it would have to increase in a year the CPU+GPU to around 60% each ? And again, you can't compare the chips until we know the real world power consumption. The A10 Fusion increased the TDP in order to get more performance over the A9. And Qualcomm and Exynos are lowering their TDP so they have to sacrifice some performance in the process.

ARM focused in the last 2 iterations in reducing power consumption and size/cost ( one core A73 is 1/4 of one Hurricane in the A10 and it doesn't bring ×4 the performance ) of their big cores so they can be used more commonly and not just for high end devices ( You should be tired of mid ranges having an octa core A53, now a cluster of 2x73 has te same area as 4x53 so they cost practically the same ). This year must be the release of the next big core with performance as the target ( very very soon ).

 

[Lodix]

What's the word on the DynamIQ architecture change coming up?

It is a new "cluster" design which now allows up to 8 cores per cluster, lowering latency and increasing bandwidth , each core has independent voltage/frequency control and the cores can be of any configuration ( 73+A53+A35+etc ). I am really keen to see a soc build with this design soon.

 

[dark zero]

Do you realise that for it to reach 250k it would have to increase in a year the CPU+GPU to around 60% each ? And again, you can't compare the chips until we know the real world power consumption. The A10 Fusion increased the TDP in order to get more performance over the A9. And Qualcomm and Exynos are lowering their TDP so they have to sacrifice some performance in the process.

ARM focused in the last 2 iterations in reducing power consumption and size/cost ( one core A73 is 1/4 of one Hurricane in the A10 and it doesn't bring ×4 the performance ) of their big cores so they can be used more commonly and not just for high end devices ( You should be tired of mid ranges having an octa core A53, now a cluster of 2x73 has te same area as 4x53 so they cost practically the same ). This year must be the release of the next big core with performance as the target ( very very soon ).

Agreed, however Apple must have something ready... Also remember that Apple is likely to use Furian as GPU. So 250K on Antutu won't be that hard for them. Or at least 225K.

Yeah... Antutu is not that a full truth benchmark, but at least gives an idea on how efficient is a chip on processing images or videos.

Also I guess is time to see the ARM A35 on action on the lower tiers... A53 consumes a LOT of power... I don't know why Qualcomm revived the 200 series with that (Snapdragon 205 is an ARM A53 dual core at 1.00 Ghz)... I hope Mediatek introduces the A35 series.

And finally, thanks a lot to revive this thread. I guess is time to update it.

PS: I'll publish the news of Xiaomi Surge and Spreadtrum/Intel later guys, also seems that someone wants to revive Texas but is still on evaluation, stay tuned!

 

[Nothingness]

Also I guess is time to see the ARM A35 on action on the lower tiers... A53 consumes a LOT of power... I don't know why Qualcomm revived the 200 series with that (Snapdragon 205 is an ARM A53 dual core at 1.00 Ghz)... I hope Mediatek introduces the A35 series.

A53 is quite power efficient. The problem is that some ARM customers push its frequency outside of its intended design range.

 

[dark zero]

A53 is quite power efficient. The problem is that some ARM customers push its frequency outside of its intended design range.

Compared to A35, A53 is mid tier.

 

[Nothingness]

Compared to A35, A53 is mid tier.

Its performance is also perhaps too limited for many of the markets where A53 is used. I mean A35 is not a replacement for A53, in the same way that A53 is not a replacement for A72 or A73.

 

[R0H1T]

Its performance is also perhaps too limited for many of the markets where A53 is used. I mean A35 is not a replacement for A53, in the same way that A53 is not a replacement for A72 or A73.

How so? I guess it really depends on how far the A35 can be clocked, but at 16nm or 14nm FF the A53 may not have a huge clock speed advantage.

A35 actually is extremely intriguing as it is able to match the A53's performance from 80% to up to 100%

 

[Nothingness]

How so? I guess it really depends on how far the A35 can be clocked, but at 16nm or 14nm FF the A53 may not have a huge clock speed advantage.

It's not a question of clock, but a question of IPC. According to wikipedia performance is 2.24 DMIPS/MHz for A53 and 1.78 for A35. Also ARM explicitly placed Cortex-A35 as a replacement of A7:

And to extend your quote that you conveniently pruned
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9769/arm-announces-cortex-a35

What is probably more interesting are apples-to-apples performance and power comparisons to the A53. Here the A35 actually is extremely intriguing as it is able to match the A53's performance from 80% to up to 100% depending on use-case. Browser workloads are where the A35 will trail behind the most and only be able to provide around 80% of the A53's performance. Integer workloads are quoted at coming in at 84-85% of the Apollo core, while as mentioned earlier, memory-heavy workloads are supposed to be on par with the larger bretheren.

 

[dark zero]

And... here goes news!!!
************************
Qualcomm
************************
And there goes a leak from Geekbench

Source: http://www.gizchina.com/2017/04/13/xiaomi-mi-6-geekbench-scores-leak-look-awesome/

And needless to say... is somewhat.... dissapointing.. the growth on Single Core is at best 15%... and compared to the improvement of M1 to M2, the latter showed up better numbers... Apple still is the king on that.

And yeah, you will ask why worried about that?

Ok, I need to be sincere... Single core matters on emulation of 32 bits apps... A57 couldn't managed better numbers than a Pentium D (according to Geekbench and calculating the %emulation loss) making the emulation impossible on them.

Then, there goes the ARM A72 and Kryo which were really decent deals and has the power of a Intel Quad Core Q6600 downclocked at 2.25 Ghz (according to Geekbench again) which makes them really decent performers for the time. Also seeing how Kryo was tested with Windows 10 and had similar performance of the Q6600 mentioned previously:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U

I was expecting to see the 835 perform way better than the previous generation. Sadly, it didn't happen and I see the 835 performing as good as the Q6600 clocked at 2.75 Ghz which becomes decent from one side, but dissapointing seeing how the 820/821 can perform.

Hope that Qualcomm prepares another iteration improving it even more.

************************
Xiaomi
************************
And here goes the new competitor!
Xiaomi decided years ago to prepare their own in house processor with the chinese maker Leadcore. And finally this year they launched their first processor ever with the Xiaomi Mi5C

The Xiaomi Surge S1 (also known as V670) has the following features:

CPU: ARM A53 X4 2.2 Ghz + ARM A53 X4 1.4 Ghz
GPU: ARM Mali T-860 MP4 at 800 Mhz
Support VOLTE
Low power DSP

Fabrication process: 28 nm

Source:https://www.gizmochina.com/2017/02/28/xiaomi-surge-s1-antutu-performance-inside-mi-5c-revealed/

Also there is the Antutu and Geekbench score

Source: https://www.gizmochina.com/2017/02/28/xiaomi-surge-s1-antutu-performance-inside-mi-5c-revealed/

Source: http://www.gizchina.com/2017/02/20/xiaomi-mi-5c-benchmarks/

A mid Ranger from all their rights...

But there is more. The other chip Xiaomi is about to release is known right now as V970 and is the high ranger one. These is the known configurations:

CPU: ARM A73 X4 ?.? Ghz + ARM A53 X4 ?.? Ghz
GPU: Mali G71 MP12 ??? Mhz

Fabrication process: TMSC 16 nm (initially 10nm until got suspended due the low yield rates and cut down costs)

Source: http://www.gsmarena.com/two_xiaomi_...cortexa73_and_malig71_included-news-23560.php

Source of the change of fabrication process: http://tech.firstpost.com/news-anal...ill-be-built-on-16nm-tsmc-process-366870.html

CPU wise is more of the same, but GPU wise is promising to beat the Huawei which got lag behind a LOT. Also 50% more cores can mean better performance clocked correctly. Let's wait until official sources to see what is true or not. But at least they can reach Snapdragon 821 performance

************************
Spreadtrum/Intel
************************
As explained before on the thread from anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/11196...rmontbased-soc-with-cat-7-lte-for-smartphones) this is the new attempt from Spreadtrum to maintain relevant on the market.

The SC9861G-IA is an octacore X86 chip that gets the spirit of the fallen SOFIA or the killed Broxton (which was promising) and has the following features:

CPU: 8 × Intel Airmont at up to 2 GHz
GPU: PowerVR GT7200
Supoorted Screen Max.: 2560 × 1440
Modem:
TD-LTE/FDD LTE/TD-SCDMA/WCDMA/EGG
LTE Category 7
(DL: 300Mbps, UL: 100Mbps)

Process technology: 14 nm

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11196...rmontbased-soc-with-cat-7-lte-for-smartphones

And yes... it will come alone? No! it shown up a benchmark around there!

Single Core: 716
Multi Core: 3234

Source: http://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/1993017

A total Mid Ranger where you see, is the Helio X10 at 14 nm... the problem is the GPU... why they didn't put the Power VR 7400 to at least make the chip competitive on the GPU wise?

Intel doesn't put better a Quad Core with that GPU?
************************
The new competitor? or a reviving one?
************************
And finally the rumor on the air...
Huawei was the 1st one to make their own CPU... Xiaomi was the next... and now an old player, Meizu was being rumored to have some talks with an old forgotten one from USA... can you guess it?

Spoiler: It was a retired competitor

If you don't guessed, well, the conversations are with Texas Intruments, which got away time ago...

And yeah, despite Mediatek has a lot of share part for Meizu, they knows that to expand on the world, they needs some help... and Texas Intruments has some patents that can help both on their objetives.

Source: http://www.gizchina.com/2017/04/03/meizu-working-texas-instruments-chipset/

***************************************************
And that's all from now... also I'll investigate about the Snapdragon 205 and I'll put later. See ya!

 

[Lodix]

If you are disappointed with that single core performance of the SD835 then check the new results with the new Geekbench 4.1 that fixes some favoritism for the Cortex A72/73 ( it is around 1850 now on the Galaxy s8 ).

 

[dark zero]

If you are disappointed with that single core performance of the SD835 then check the new results with the new Geekbench 4.1 that fixes some favoritism for the Cortex A72/73 ( it is around 1850 now on the Galaxy s8 ).

Actually besides Apple I saw a slight nerf on all cores, even A53 got some nerf (around 3%). Seems that they are preparing the new version of Geekbench sooner than expecting.

 

[Lodix]

Actually besides Apple I saw a slight nerf on all cores, even A53 got some nerf (around 3%). Seems that they are preparing the new version of Geekbench sooner than expecting.

Samsung custom cores didn't got a drop in scores,

 

[dark zero]

Samsung custom cores didn't got a drop in scores,

That's interesting then. I wonder if Krait got a nerf. I don't have any Krait based phones anymore....

 

[Lodix]

That's interesting then. I wonder if Krait got a nerf. I don't have any Krait based phones anymore....

I think just few architectures got a drop in Performance, in the changelog they say overall scores are expected to increase about 5%.

 

[pooptastic]

I think just few architectures got a drop in Performance, in the changelog they say overall scores are expected to increase about 5%.

Nuts, guess like Intel, they're still chasing the best efficiency possible more than anything.

 

[Lodix]

Nuts, guess like Intel, they're still chasing the best efficiency possible more than anything.

ARM? I think the next core will be more focused on performance.

 

[dark zero]

Seems that since Apple has a MASSIVE advantage against ARM, is time to deliver a Conroe jump from ARM side.

 

[french toast]

Seems that since Apple has a MASSIVE advantage against ARM, is time to deliver a Conroe jump from ARM side.

They have the engineering capability to do it, its more a case of priority, area efficient, power efficient cpu cores is what their android customer base wants.
There is no no reason they could not design a super wide core with all the efficiency tricks they have learnt with cortex series up until now.