News Mnuchin Rejects Subpoena -- Will he face consequences?

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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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Trump will fight this every step of the way until he no longer can win. Wonder how long the first appeal will take?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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I strongly suspect they will wait for the appeals process to work itself out.

Of course. Having Trump's tax returns & actual accounting records in the hands of Congress could be a very dangerous mix for him. Info from Deutsche Bank might make it even worse.

I mean, a liar, a cheat, a thief & a charlatan? His voters kinda admire him for getting away with it all. I confess to a certain grudging admiration for such folks but I sure don't want one to be President.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
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It is frankly unbelievable to me that conservatives think Congress should not have the power to request tax returns to see if someone is bribing the president.

Like seriously, what happened to you people? Your party is diseased and it’s taking you down with it. Wake up! Someday you will look back on this time and be ashamed of yourselves.

They do in fact ( and should ) have the right to Request anything they want. When the other branch disagrees with the request that is what the court is for.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
They do in fact ( and should ) have the right to Request anything they want. When the other branch disagrees with the request that is what the court is for.

When the other branch has a legal argument against the request. I don't wanna is not a legal argument. It is abusive to refuse on no basis and obstruct the legitimate duty of Congress just because you can.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
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When the other branch has a legal argument against the request. I don't wanna is not a legal argument. It is abusive to refuse on no basis and obstruct the legitimate duty of Congress just because you can.
I think not wanting to give up power is even a worse one to 'I don't wanna' and I think that is the real reason.

the repubs don't want to lose control of either senate or the WH.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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That's why it will go to court. As I said, he might have a leg to stand on, he might even believe that he's doing the right thing. Both of those ideas are the antithesis of the accepted dogma around here, but that doesn't mean they're wrong. In this case, the process is critical, it's good that it's being tested, as the result is more important than simply getting a shot at Trump.
I see this as part of the general myopia in politics, the need to get the desired result today, without thought about tomorrow.

And now we know it is the Administration who is wrong and their position baseless, indeed ridiculous in principle. Congress will get what it is rightfully entitled. On the taxes proper this information may be Mazar has that, perhaps not but considering that Mehta compared Trump to Buchanan does not bode well when there is a law on the books which has no good legal argument against it and which has stood the test of time. Regarding Mazar must comply and there is no stopping that. An appeal? There's no good grounds for one and the courts could refuse to hear more nonsense.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Yup, as predicted. Also the judge ruled extremely quickly indicating that Trump’s argument was not only wrong, but that it wasn’t even close.

The opening of the opinion


Judge Amit Mehta begins the opinion by quoting President James Buchanan accusing Congress of investigating him as a means of “furnishing material for harassing [the President], degrading him in the eyes of the country.”

“Some 160 years later, President Donald J. Trump has taken up the fight of his predecessor,” Mehta writes in the opinion, which offers a categorical rejection of the President’s arguments.

He adds that Trump “echo[es] the protests of President Buchanan,” and goes on to rule in favor of upholding the subpoena.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
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I'm not sure Mazar has that option, but the likely appeal result will be to let the lower decision stand.

The only way they could wait for the appeals process to play out would be for a higher court to issue a stay impending appeal, but I doubt that is going to happen. Judge Mehta has already rejected a stay, and I strongly suspect that the appeal itself will be denied for not having any legal grounds for appeal. The courts are aware that Trump has almost no legal argument here and is mostly trying to stall and it does not look like they are interested in allowing it.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
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The only way they could wait for the appeals process to play out would be for a higher court to issue a stay impending appeal, but I doubt that is going to happen. Judge Mehta has already rejected a stay, and I strongly suspect that the appeal itself will be denied for not having any legal grounds for appeal. The courts are aware that Trump has almost no legal argument here and is mostly trying to stall and it does not look like they are interested in allowing it.
Couple of edits... hope you don't mind.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
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They do in fact ( and should ) have the right to Request anything they want. When the other branch disagrees with the request that is what the court is for.

Law very clearly states that "the other branch disagreeing" has no merit concerning the broad powers granted to Congress concerning this matter, and so the courts do not need to be involved. This is just a stalling tactic from Trump.

That is not opinion. It is written law.
 
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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
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Law very clearly states that "the other branch disagreeing" has no merit concerning the broad powers granted to Congress concerning this matter, and so the courts do not need to be involved. This is just a stalling tactic from Trump.

That is not opinion. It is written law.
It's embarrassing that you even need to say this.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,088
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This phrase in the article is stupid:



The judge did not take a liberal view. He took a constitutional view.
Well, it's a more liberal view in the way that abortion laws with rape exceptions are more liberal than abortion laws without rape exceptions, and assuming of course that the liberal/conservative scale correlates perfectly with the rational/irrational scale.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
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These guys so devoted to Donald Trump and would thumb their nose at American patriotism don't care if they are arrested and jailed.
Donald trump would LOVE THAT.
Trump could and most definitely would make them out to be martyr(s) for Trump.
By the time Donald Trump was finished spinning it, one would think it was Donald Trump behind bars.
And Trump would not give a damn about anyone who sacrificed their personal freedom for Donald Trump.
Would any cult leader really give a damn?
Did Jim Jones feel bad for the hundreds he lead to death?
If even one of these law breakers should go to jail for ignoring a subpoena, Trump and Fox and Kelly Anne and Sarah Sanders will have a shet-fit defending these Trump lowlifes. The Trump living dead. The Commie loving red-hat Trump rooskies.
Since when has dishonoring America became a fad?

The democratic controlled house had better man-up and do their duty regardless of what Fox News thinks or spins.
Otherwise and as the last hope, if the house fails to take real action they then become part of the crime, no longer the investigators. This is not politics and Nancy Pelosi needs to understand that.
Nancy seems only interested in playing THE GAME. The game of politics.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,007
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The entire 'refusal to comply with subpoenas' thing is expressly designed to force the Democrats to start impeachment proceedings. The fires are being stoked by paid social influence workers, preying on an American populace that has no idea that "impeachment" isn't synonymous with "removal from office." How many people are enraged that Nancy Pelosi, who they believe has the power to remove Trump, is refusing to do so? I don't know, but the number must be in the millions.

Trump wants an impeachment because he loves gladiator politics - it's entertainment, and it's his nature to fight people. But in the authoritarian's playbook, impeachment has another added benefit: it puts vulnerable moderate democrats in a position where they have to join with democrats to impeach a president from the opposition party. Although we heard a lot about new-wave Democrats like AOC, a lot of other Democrats won seats and helped the party re-take the House by being moderate and essentially pledging not to be hard partisans. By acting outrageous, he puts Democrats in a position where they almost have to be partisan. Polarization works by breaking down your enemies, dividing and conquering.

Trump would love to be adored by all and thereby avoid the annoyance of having 'was impeached' being written next to his name. But if all goes well - and it probably will! - he'll be able to decree what's in the history books. So that's okay.

BUT...

What is the alternative?

Continue to run investigations that can't go anywhere because Trump won't cooperate and tell his people to ignore subpoena's, and nobody will make him? Continue playing safe political games until the next election, and hope that the Democratic party's unwillingness to protect the nation from an out-of-control Executive will impress the swing voters and the MAGAs? Further emboldening Trump to continue to break the law, obstruct justice, and possibly refuse to recognize the results of the next election? - he'll likely come up with some bullshit "reasoning", and the Democrats will (again) open investigations, give sad speeches on the floor, and continue to NOT use the powers enumerated to them.

Fuck this!...I'm getting close to saying "just impeach this POS"!