[MMO] World of Tanks

[Daverino]

By the way, fact: 50%+ of people will have win rates under 50%.

That's not a fact. 50% of people will have a win rate under 50% if the win rates are normally distributed. That would be true if win rate was a random variable. It is not.

http://wotcs.com/statsp.php

 

[The Boston Dangler]

out of frustration, i've quit this shit game multiple times. out of boredom, i try again

i'm considering the thought of benching my beloved tiger and moving into an OP t29, but i absolutely dread the thought of grinding thru another tree. i expect a huge bump in my stats, from 54 eff/53% win, if a had the t29. of course, once i get it there will probably be another mismatch to screw me.

 

[Ruptga]

out of frustration, i've quit this shit game multiple times. out of boredom, i try again

i'm considering the thought of benching my beloved tiger and moving into an OP t29, but i absolutely dread the thought of grinding thru another tree. i expect a huge bump in my stats, from 54 eff/53% win, if a had the t29. of course, once i get it there will probably be another mismatch to screw me.

Why not get a Tiger P instead? It is basically the same thing but with some armor.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Why not get a Tiger P instead? It is basically the same thing but with some armor.

it's only a slight improvement over the tiger, which means it's still at a huge disadvantage. it doesn't even have a better gun.

 

[Craig234]

That's not a fact. 50% of people will have a win rate under 50% if the win rates are normally distributed. That would be true if win rate was a random variable. It is not.

http://wotcs.com/statsp.php

Well, if some players have really low rates, and others don't have the corresponding really high rates, you could end up with more than half players at 50%+ (remember draws).

But yes, I was assuming more proportional distribution than that - those low-percent players are in fact distributed randomly on teams.

And if the spiking is actually on the other side - a small percent can increase their win percent - that actually reduces the percent of players with a >50% win rate.

If a player has a 70% win rate instead of a 52% win rate, that's more players that have to be below 50% as well on the other teams.

WoT is 'zero sum' - 15 wnners, 15 losers per game except draws.

 

[Ruptga]

I dunno, I have a Tiger P and just sold a T29. I'm sure part of it was that it just didn't suit my style, but I never got the T29 hype. In fact before the big arty nerf I hated the T29 because the huge armorless hull was such an arty magnet. But even now, it seems extremely meh unless it can hull down, and even then people will always find ways to hit the top sliver of hull or the commander's hatch. The gun does have a mean mix of penetration and alpha, but for a standoff tank the accuracy is crap and, overall, I never felt like it was anything spectacular. On the other hand, I can't make the best comparison because it has been a while since I had an IS, but I do have a KV3 and a Tiger P and I would rather have either of those in a typical t6 through t8 match.

I think I like the Tiger P best though. Maybe some of it is that it doesn't have any hype to live up to, but I find the armor bouncy enough and the gun's accuracy makes up for at least some of its deficiencies in alpha and rate of fire. Its biggest problem is shared with the KV3; it is mostly useless in the t9 matches it is constantly thrown into, but that isn't a problem with the vehicle itself.

I just got ace in my A Panther, dealing 2.2k damage and earning 1212xp. That xp was just enough to finish the first engine upgrade too.

 

[PowerYoga]

out of frustration, i've quit this shit game multiple times. out of boredom, i try again

i'm considering the thought of benching my beloved tiger and moving into an OP t29, but i absolutely dread the thought of grinding thru another tree. i expect a huge bump in my stats, from 54 eff/53% win, if a had the t29. of course, once i get it there will probably be another mismatch to screw me.

T29 is pretty fun to play. One of my favorite tanks that can bait like no other. It won't bump your stats much though, its not a "padding" tank as it sees tier 9s frequently which can penetrate your copula with ease even at 200m. And tier 9 guns can go through your turret cheeks.

You also shouldn't be playing for stats. Winrate going up should be a side effect of you getting better at the game, padding it makes it meaningless as you are not learning anything that would make you a better player.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

T29 is pretty fun to play. One of my favorite tanks that can bait like no other. It won't bump your stats much though, its not a "padding" tank as it sees tier 9s frequently which can penetrate your copula with ease even at 200m. And tier 9 guns can go through your turret cheeks.

You also shouldn't be playing for stats. Winrate going up should be a side effect of you getting better at the game, padding it makes it meaningless as you are not learning anything that would make you a better player.

i don't play for stats, but they are a reflection on performance. i play for winning my next battle. i'm just sick of being out-muscled by multiple same-tier tanks in addition to the 8s and 9s. all the skill in the world doesn't help when the avalanche comes down on you.

i've tried improving my teams' chances of winning by advising teammates at the start of the battle ("please don't overload the valley and then stop", "we are DEFENDING", "A and B are very good players in very good tanks, they are priority targets", "there are no flags on the hill", "can we get a tier 8 to support us here?" and so on) usually to be ignored and mocked. even when i say "abort the west attack, we have no support from anyone else" it's like i'm speaking chinese.

 

[Craig234]

i've tried improving my teams' chances of winning by advising teammates at the start of the battle ("please don't overload the valley and then stop", "we are DEFENDING", "A and B are very good players in very good tanks, they are priority targets", "there are no flags on the hill", "can we get a tier 8 to support us here?" and so on) usually to be ignored and mocked. even when i say "abort the west attack, we have no support from anyone else" it's like i'm speaking chinese.

I find that tk'ing one team member who doesn't listen early on helps get their attention.

I'm kidding. Maybe.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Dangler -

I recently rebought my Tiger P. It is a glorious troll tank. People shoot the hull and bounce all the time. The 88 is a great gun and while it lacks the alpha of the american 105, it is still darn good.

And the skill exists in not allowing yourself to be in the avalanche that is tier 8's and 9's crushing down on you... or alternately understanding that your tank is much more expendable than the top tiers on your team and you should be the one proxy lighting and making the team able to damage those enemies.

 

[PowerYoga]

i don't play for stats, but they are a reflection on performance. i play for winning my next battle. i'm just sick of being out-muscled by multiple same-tier tanks in addition to the 8s and 9s. all the skill in the world doesn't help when the avalanche comes down on you.

i've tried improving my teams' chances of winning by advising teammates at the start of the battle ("please don't overload the valley and then stop", "we are DEFENDING", "A and B are very good players in very good tanks, they are priority targets", "there are no flags on the hill", "can we get a tier 8 to support us here?" and so on) usually to be ignored and mocked. even when i say "abort the west attack, we have no support from anyone else" it's like i'm speaking chinese.

You shouldn't have any expectations on your team listening to you. Quite frankly I don't listen to anybody at the beginning of the game, and XVM makes the "so and so is a good player" comments redundant.

Also... "There's no flags on the hill" is true. However whoever wins the hill has the whole entire flank and a superior sniping spot that can hit half the map. Rushing the flag is bad form on encounter, unless your only plan is to delay the other team from CapFast™. (I don't play assault)

 

[Daverino]

Well, if some players have really low rates, and others don't have the corresponding really high rates, you could end up with more than half players at 50%+ (remember draws).

But yes, I was assuming more proportional distribution than that - those low-percent players are in fact distributed randomly on teams.

And if the spiking is actually on the other side - a small percent can increase their win percent - that actually reduces the percent of players with a >50% win rate.

If a player has a 70% win rate instead of a 52% win rate, that's more players that have to be below 50% as well on the other teams.

WoT is 'zero sum' - 15 wnners, 15 losers per game except draws.

Yes and no. WoT is zero sum, which means that the average win rate will always be 48% (assuming 2% draws). However, the bad assumption that you're making is that half the people are above average and half the people are below average. In WoT, the median win rate is lower than the average as you can see by the long tail to the right in the win rate distribution.

But all this shows is that there's a typical skill curve in WoT as with any game. There is a population of players that can obviously play better than others, pushing the median down at the expense of their success. I am arguing against those who say consider the game a system of 30 random variables, of which the player is one. This leads to the 'I cannot influence the game and that explains by 48% win rate' philosophy. That thinking is wrong and, in my mind, leads to laziness and poor play.

Statistics show that good players will win more often than bad players in WoT. Therefore, if you're losing more often than you're winning, over the long run, you're not playing well and have room for improvement.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Dangler -

I recently rebought my Tiger P. It is a glorious troll tank. People shoot the hull and bounce all the time. The 88 is a great gun and while it lacks the alpha of the american 105, it is still darn good.

my mantra for the tiger is "let the gun do the work". however, the long 88 falls way short against a good t29 player, even when i'm shooting the ears. at best i jump him while his attention is elsewhere (maybe stating the obvious there ). i've also noticed a lot of mystery misses lately. the lowest of the low was when i bounced all 3 shell types for no damage off the rear of something - that was another rage quit.

 

[PowerYoga]

my mantra for the tiger is "let the gun do the work". however, the long 88 falls way short against a good t29 player, even when i'm shooting the ears. at best i jump him while his attention is elsewhere (maybe stating the obvious there ). i've also noticed a lot of mystery misses lately. the lowest of the low was when i bounced all 3 shell types for no damage off the rear of something - that was another rage quit.

first of all, don't shoot the ears. They are no longer hit boxes and will generate only viewfinder damage.

Secondly, the 88L71 is one of the best guns in the game. It is one of the most accurate guns and with the accuracy changes, is pretty terrific. I used to use it to kill IS-4s back in the day when it was a tier 9 tank.

Third: the rear of what? There's always mystery bounces that seem like bullshit but that doesn't stop me from trying to figure out what's wrong. Maybe the shell went wider than you thought it would, leading to a 70 degree autobounce? With the normalization HEAT and APCR rounds are normalized less and penalized more, so I expect those to bounce when hitting very angled armor as well. Finally, you should have no expectation for HE to pen at all unless you're shooting an arty in its thin 20mm sides.

Watch your replay and you might learn more than you thought you would.

 

[stag3]

finally grinded in my type 59 enough to have credits to buy the T62a, but i can't afford any equipment yet, so i'll need to wait for another 50% off equipment sale.
i'm thinking rammer/vs/optics for the T62a, thoughts?
normally i toss vents in everything but optics might be better, or maybe binocs instead of optics

 

[Hoober]

finally grinded in my type 59 enough to have credits to buy the T62a, but i can't afford any equipment yet, so i'll need to wait for another 50% off equipment sale.
i'm thinking rammer/vs/optics for the T62a, thoughts?
normally i toss vents in everything but optics might be better, or maybe binocs instead of optics

I never stop long enough in a tier x med for the binocs to come into play. Optics, yes -- I run optics on my 50m, but not binocs.

 

[Genx87]

I played last night for the first time in a month. Sad I still had 32 days of premium lol. Converted a bunch of gold to research the E50m. Now I need 4.2 million credits. Not sure if I have the mental fortitude to grind that out in the Type 59. Too many fun games out there I am playing right now(warthunder, Torchlight II, War:Airlandbattle). But Ill give it a go this weekend.

The Panther II and its 88L71 is just as deadly as ever. After getting blasted by arty. I managed to kill a 13-75, Panther II, and almost killed a T29 as they were pushing around a corner.

 

[PowerYoga]

optics are useful on a tier 10 med for sure. That'd give you around 440 view? The gun and the tank's soft stats are good enough that you can probably sacrifice a bit of performance for better view, especially since they nerfed bushes. I'm rethinking some of my equipment and might toss optics in other stuff now as well.

 

[stag3]

so should i go with my standard rammer/vents/optics over rammer/vs/optics?
since it fires so fast, vents would decrease reload time by another second or so?
or do i want the vs to help while firing on the move...hmm

the e50m is fun, i'm really enjoying it. when you can bounce 2/5 from a batchat its hilarious

 

[PowerYoga]

always VS > vents. You're also not shaving a whole second off your reload, more like .1 or .2. Out of rammer vents VS, vents is always the most useless and first to go. A lot of my tanks don't run vents, for example my T34 has gld, vstab and rammer.

 

[stag3]

ah ok, vs it is
i should take vents off all my other tanks then shit lol

 

[PowerYoga]

vents are useful for certain tanks. The T-54 works well with them, and so do a lot of scouts. In general all-rounder vehicles work better with vents, but optics are becoming more and more relevant.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Damn, I go off and buy skyrim on a steam sale and get busy at work and I miss alot of fun debate in here.

So... lets start with the comments about half the people being worse than a certain %. In that regard I think the word you are looking for is "Median" and not "Average". Sure the Average win rate on the NA server is around 48%, that however does not imply 50% of people are worse than that, as average and median are not the same thing, and I dont know if there is a stats site that will tell you the median win rate.

1. Basic understanding of the game: 48% WR
2. Advanced understanding of the tank mechanics in the game +4% WR
3. Map knowledge: +2% WR
4. Situational awareness (awareness of the game's progression while still driving and shooting): +4% WR
5. Using premium ammo when appropriate: +1% WR
6. Using an overpowered-for-tier tank or a premium with preferential matchmaking: +1%
7. Meeting criteria 1-6 and platooning +10% WR
8. Platooning with 2 other people who also meet criteria 1-6 +10% WR

As for this, on a general sense I agree. There is still some short term randomness injected into this, but is mostly truth. Solo I can usually get 60%+ and platooned 75-85%. I'm almost inclined to say situational awareness is more than 4%. Many many games have been lost due to an entire flank not paying any attention to the minimap. Hell even I've blamed myself for some losses; getting caught up in a local fire fight and not disengaging to defend our base and then losing eventhough we were winning.

As for optics, I've actually changed over to binocs on a large majority of my tanks. I'm a big believer in camo crew skills and binocs. Spotting the enemy and staying hidden is a very good tactic that alot of medium tanks excel at (especially the russian ones). I also put binocs on my TDs, as most have great view ranges already, and you dont even have to sacrafice a Vstab. I've even got a few patrol duty medals on my TDs. On most maps there are lots of places where you can stop and let your binocs activate, and with 6th sense you know if you are spotted, so you know if you can afford to sit still for 5+ seconds to let them activate. The extra 15% view range over optics is worth it in my opinion.

The only tank I run optics over binocs on is my vk3601, and thats b/c I almost never stop in that tank, and I have a 4 skilled crew with the other view range perks. Also when I do get top tier with optics and my camo value I can spot and shoot almost anything before I get spotted anyway. Also, secrectly, I'm usually in a platoon with similiar vehicle and we are leading the charge and I want to steal the eff/wn7 points for initial spotting, which in this case optics are much more useful than binocs.

 

[PowerYoga]

Should also add "If you don't play for a while, -10% WR"

I ended my night yesterday at around 40% WR, played like 6-7 games?

 

[LurkerPrime]

Should also add "If you don't play for a while, -10% WR" I ended my night yesterday at around 40% WR, played like 6-7 games?

You sure it was you and not just bad luck and shitty teams?