Mmmmm, High Fructose Corn Syrup

[Gibsons]

I agree that my experience isn't conclusive, but I believe that they are related :awe:

I believe your results are explained because Mars was waxing in the House of Aries.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

I believe your results are explained because Mars was waxing in the House of Aries.

Actually Mars doesn't have phases from our point of view as it's a superior planet

/ubernerd

 

[darkswordsman17]

i ignored them because they were short-term studies. i kept arguing long-term results and all you had to offer was short-term studies done by corn lobby groups.

yeah, i posted a mercola study once before. i knew nothing of the guy, i just found a link that supported what i was saying. just because he's a loony doesn't mean my argument was. a clock, even though broken, still tells the right time two times out of the day.

Uh, no, I'm not even the one that posts studies. I just point out your failed reasoning when you cite a study and try to extrapolate something the study doesn't show. And as usual, you keep trying to act as though all the studies that show that your claim is not correct are biased. So, why is it you keep ignoring my point that these "biased" studies are being put in peer-reviewed journals, and other studies just happen to find the same thing?

And that is your problem. You look for data that supports your belief, instead of basing your belief on the data. When it doesn't, you just claim its biased. You also take it a step further and extrapolate your own conclusions from studies that have nothing to do with it. For instance, claiming a study that only uses HFCS won't show it being worse than sucrose, as sucrose wasn't even used in the study. Also, when a study is about drastic overconsumption, you try to jump to deducing that the study is valid to someone who drinks a pop or two a day (while ignoring other factors such as activity level and overall caloric and nutrient intake).

With each step you cling to some new reasoning. Finally after having all your other points refuted due to your poor reasoning, you're clinging to long-term studies, which I agree more long term research would be nice. So in typical fashion, you find a study that does that, you extrapolate a claim. Of course, again, the results don't even really support that claim.

The long term portion of the study you posted showed no difference between HFCS and sucrose.

Yeah, funny that he ignores that.

Mostly breads, yogurts, canned foods, peanut butter, jellies, frozen entrees.

Sugar sweetened items have a very comparable calorie content as well.

You cut those out, or replaced them with sucrose versions? Also, any change in activity levels?

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

HFCS = blech. I was happy to find "Mexican Coke" at the local Sams that uses plain 'ol sugar

 

[ussfletcher]

You cut those out, or replaced them with sucrose versions? Also, any change in activity levels?

I replaced them with sucrose versions, also my level of activity was probably less, here I have to walk to classes. :sneaky:

 

[eits]

The long term portion of the study you posted showed no difference between HFCS and sucrose.

iirc, it did.

 

[gaidensensei]

C6H12O6 is the molecular formula for every one of the literally dozens of hexoses possible.

Yeah, but it's not sucrose/table sugar, which I thought was being discussed in that post.

 

[gaidensensei]

It's been some time since o-chem, but I thought I recalled that fructose is more taxing on the body to metabolize than sucrose.

Am pretty sure I remember there was a diagram depicting the stages of energy conversion from fructose which requires a somewhat complicated liver process resulting in half efficient energy transfer.

Compared to sucrose (or raw glucose if you may) which is readily absorbed by the intestines without much effort for energy conversion, immediately available for the body to use.

But as with everything, it's not for everyone to follow this concept.

 

[Gibsons]

iirc, it did.

You are wrong.

The short term data showed a difference, but you ignore short term data, right?

 

[zinfamous]

I wasn't aware of powerful corn lobbies in American Samoa, Germany, or Egypt.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/commerce/091125/obesity-epidemic-fattest-countries

lol. US is #3 with 66.7% of the population overweight, whereas NZ is #7 with 62.7% of the population overweight.

A little pot & kettle for the Kiwis to be labeling the US a bunch of fatties, no?

 

[zinfamous]

You troll almost as bad as Gayner. Am I really to believe that this is the first time he has ever seen American food products in his market? If so I weep for the food connoisseurs of Australia. Oreos, Kraft cheese, Snickers, these are the iconic American foods that you find all over the world for one reason, they are excellent food and people want to buy them. If people didn't like Hershey's chocolate syrup, they wouldn't buy it and Hershey's wouldn't market it in that area. If McDonald's is so horrible, then why is it everywhere around the world? I can't go a two blocks without running into a McDonald's, Pizza Hut, KFC, 7-11 or Circle K. There's even two or three Shakey's Pizza here but given the small number of locations perhaps they could take a page or two out of Pizza Hut's recipe book and get themselves some decent products. Gayner might try to deny it but American culture quickly roots itself into the local populace due to it's superior qualities. McDonald's is popular because it makes excellent food. American clothing is popular because it is sturdy, well made and fashionable. Hollywood and American television programs are popular because of the high quality production, acting, original material, and excellent writing. American pop music is the best because it resonates with people, always breaking new ground, and offers up a breath of fresh air in otherwise stagnant media markets. Heck, even great tasting American beer like Budweiser was the drink of choice at the party I was at the other night.

you just said that Kraft cheese is an excellent food, and that people all over the world want to buy it.

This is how I know that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

If you've ever had real un-pasteurized cheese, then you might get a clue--then again, being raised on that anti-cheese filth, you probably wouldn't like real cheese, I guess.

 

[Gibsons]

It's been some time since o-chem, but I thought I recalled that fructose is more taxing on the body to metabolize than sucrose.

Am pretty sure I remember there was a diagram depicting the stages of energy conversion from fructose which requires a somewhat complicated liver process resulting in half efficient energy transfer.

Compared to sucrose (or raw glucose if you may) which is readily absorbed by the intestines without much effort for energy conversion, immediately available for the body to use.

But as with everything, it's not for everyone to follow this concept.

This has been hashed out here before. Many times... quick sum up, hopefully I won't botch anything.

Sucrose is basically 50% fructose. Once in the bloodstream, fructose can be metabolized in the liver by hexokinase, thus bypassing a regulatory step (PFK). It also doesn't induce much of an insulin response, so there are other differences vs. glucose, including how it affects appetite.

 

[zinfamous]

So apparently you do not think that the rest of the world is capable of efficiently producing crops? Way to make an ASSumption there.

Of course the US exports food, like my Quaker brand oats and honey cereal was manufactured in Chicago or my SPAM from Minnesota.

The servings and food are the same, duh, I mean it wouldn't be McDonald's if it was different now would it? Mmmmmm.... I can go across the street and get me a delicious double quarter pounder with cheese value meal with a large strawberry shake. Doesn't get any better than that. Personally, I commend America for exporting their superior products so that the people around the world like us here in China can actually get decent products.

the overabundance of Corn is only b/c the US gov't subsidizes that practice. It absolutely WOULD NOT happen if the farmers weren't paid to wastefully produce UNPALATABLE varieties of corn.

Yes, completely unpalatable. Not a single farmer in Iowa eats corn grown from their crop, as it is produced expressly for processing other products, particularly raising beef cattle on corn feed--which is completely unnatural for that animal. ~6 months on a corn diet literally kills cattle, so they are fattened as fast as possible before being sent off to slaughter. It is not a healthier beef by any means, it simply fattens them much quicker than being fed on grass.

Other countries would be able to produce massive quantities of grain products if they subsidized it, but they don't do it because cultural history demands that they respect the food that they put in their bodies. Cows raised in France are miles tastier than any corn-fed "beef" in the US. by miles.

 

[zinfamous]

Don't know about? I live in China. I think I know a little more about what goes on in the world outside of the United States than you do. It's just obvious to me that you're not even trying to come up with valid arguments against my rebuttals. We're talking about the deficiencies of the Australian food market and you bring up stuff like how the rest of the world doesn't know how to grow corn or how Japan isn't able to produce its own cars. If I knew you hated the Japanese so much I wouldn't have bothered with my detailed attempts to educate you about how things really are.

You should try going to college or something, you could learn a lot about other cultures by being in such a diverse environment.

Holy crap. You really have a limited comprehension it seems. You're obviously putting words into eits' mouth.

Is this why you left the US, to maybe "study?" in China? too tough over here?

I've been all over Western and Eastern Europe, and I can assure you that I know more about the rest of the world than you (the part of the world that doesn't supplement it's fatty beef with sawdust; whatever it is about your local food that you claim is superior) and their dieting habits.

I don't know of a single developed nation that believes Kraft products are in any way good, sliced bread is an abomination, as it should be, or that corn-fed beef is even allowed. Such practice is illegal in Switzerland.

The only thing you've proven in these posts is that you have managed to become indoctrinated with whatever propaganda you've been fed in China, perhaps with a little lead poisoning to boot!

 

[zinfamous]

How does a guy from China fuel your disdain for Americans? Methinks you hate just to hate. Maybe jealous? I wasn't aware that New Zealand had become such an epicenter for worldly affairs. Anyway, here's a little disdain your way...
.

he doesn't type in Engrish--methinks he's an expat living in China, getting a healthy dose of the People's Propaganda, and happily swallowing it to boot.

the value that I have pulled from this thread:

born2bwire is the new fleabag.

 

[zinfamous]

Poor herbivores forced to eat corn.

yes, you are an expert in animal science I see.

Cattle evolved for millions of years on a non-grain grass diet. Their body does NOT METABOLIZE corn.

It fucking kills them in 6 short months. It's a simple fact. It produces the poorest quality beef. I'm sorry that you don't know this, but rather than remain ignorant on the subject and make nonsensical comments, perhaps you should start looking into these things yourself?

Most cattle producers (See: Colorado), would prefer to raise them on grass, as it increases quality. The market, however, demands a corn diet--this market being influenced by an anti-market industry of Corn. It's ridiculous, actually. It's the most blatant "socialist" industry that we have in this country, and it's been going strong for nearly 4 decades now. Yeah, I used the conservative fear word; but this time, I applied it where it's actually relevant.

 

[chris9641]

yes, you are an expert in animal science I see.

Cattle evolved for millions of years on a non-grain grass diet. Their body does NOT METABOLIZE corn.

It fucking kills them in 6 short months. It's a simple fact. It produces the poorest quality beef. I'm sorry that you don't know this, but rather than remain ignorant on the subject and make nonsensical comments, perhaps you should start looking into these things yourself?

Most cattle producers (See: Colorado), would prefer to raise them on grass, as it increases quality. The market, however, demands a corn diet--this market being influenced by an anti-market industry of Corn. It's ridiculous, actually. It's the most blatant "socialist" industry that we have in this country, and it's been going strong for nearly 4 decades now. Yeah, I used the conservative fear word; but this time, I applied it where it's actually relevant.

I agree, cows were not meant to be fed corn, but I think SunSamurai is agreeing with you. I think the cow issue can be compared with farm raised fish which significantly lacks the nutritional value of wild caught fish, but it seems people continue to buy farm raised though.

About the HFCS issue, this video(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM) was posted in the H&F board some time ago I believe. It's informative and I recommend those who downplay the potential harm of HFCS should watch it.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I have both Pepsi and Coke right now. Both ingredients list: carbonated water, sugar, color (150d) and acidity regulator (338). Coke lists quantity of sugar as 11g per 100ml, Pepsi lists it as 10.4g/100g.

Never really paid attention to sugar vs. HFCS. But there is this popular store in town that stocks all kinds of import items. I remember picking up a bunch of different sodas from all over in the past, will try and figure wtf this whole deal is with sugar vs. hfcs and pay attention next time.

 

[SunSamurai]

yes, you are an expert in animal science I see.

Cattle evolved for millions of years on a non-grain grass diet. Their body does NOT METABOLIZE corn.

It fucking kills them in 6 short months. It's a simple fact. It produces the poorest quality beef. I'm sorry that you don't know this, but rather than remain ignorant on the subject and make nonsensical comments, perhaps you should start looking into these things yourself?

Most cattle producers (See: Colorado), would prefer to raise them on grass, as it increases quality. The market, however, demands a corn diet--this market being influenced by an anti-market industry of Corn. It's ridiculous, actually. It's the most blatant "socialist" industry that we have in this country, and it's been going strong for nearly 4 decades now. Yeah, I used the conservative fear word; but this time, I applied it where it's actually relevant.

I wasn't being sarcastic, dickscarf. :awe:

 

[zinfamous]

I wasn't being sarcastic, dickscarf. :awe:

fair enough, cumdumpster. :sneaky:

 

[KMFJD]

What passes for Mexican food here is an embarrassment, with the exception of a couple of good restaurants. I haven't seen corn tortillas in the supermarket though I can order them online.

Had a great Mexican meal in Auckland a couple of years ago

 

[skace]

You troll almost as bad as Gayner. Am I really to believe that this is the first time he has ever seen American food products in his market? If so I weep for the food connoisseurs of Australia. Oreos, Kraft cheese, Snickers, these are the iconic American foods that you find all over the world for one reason, they are excellent food and people want to buy them. If people didn't like Hershey's chocolate syrup, they wouldn't buy it and Hershey's wouldn't market it in that area. If McDonald's is so horrible, then why is it everywhere around the world? I can't go a two blocks without running into a McDonald's, Pizza Hut, KFC, 7-11 or Circle K. There's even two or three Shakey's Pizza here but given the small number of locations perhaps they could take a page or two out of Pizza Hut's recipe book and get themselves some decent products. Gayner might try to deny it but American culture quickly roots itself into the local populace due to it's superior qualities. McDonald's is popular because it makes excellent food. American clothing is popular because it is sturdy, well made and fashionable. Hollywood and American television programs are popular because of the high quality production, acting, original material, and excellent writing. American pop music is the best because it resonates with people, always breaking new ground, and offers up a breath of fresh air in otherwise stagnant media markets. Heck, even great tasting American beer like Budweiser was the drink of choice at the party I was at the other night.

Congrats, you just listed nearly every terrible food product America has created and the reason we are a country of fatasses all in one disgustingly gigantic paragraph.

 

[SunSamurai]

If that paragraph was deep fried, I'd eat it.

omnomnom

 

[Deeko]

I laugh at the commercials for this stuff. "Its fine in moderation". Almost everything has this shit in it, how the hell do you make it fine in moderation, when almost anything you pick up has the stuff in it? Nothing is made with just regular sugar anymore, they all use this corn crap.

Just because there is a trace/small amount of it in a lot of things doesn't mean you should just pour soda down your throat since you can't avoid it. That's actually the definition of eating it in moderation.

And both HFCS and regular sugar are exceedingly bad for you. You think its ok to have that extra pepsi because its the limited-time variety with cane sugar? ha.